Thread: **POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
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**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 17 May, 2019 08:38 PM
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**??
Now the pre-tribbers believe that **ALL** the **CHURCH SAINTS**, dead or alive, will be raptured **BEFORE** the Great Tribulation begins and that the unbelievers will be resurrected **AFTER** the Great Tribulation ends???
**WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
2 Thessalonians 1:1,6-10: To the **CHURCH** of the Thessalonians... God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen **WHEN**the Lord Jesus is **REVEALED** from heaven in blazing fire with His powerful angels {See Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 25:31} He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel of our lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord **ON THE DAY HE COMES** to be glorified in His holy people {Including **CHURCH SAINTS**--See Matthew 25:31-46} and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes **YOU**** {Thessalonian **CHURCH SAINTS**}
Pre-Tibbers also claim that the **CHURCH SAINTS** and the Lost will not be resurrected on the same **LAST DAY** of the Great Tribulation??
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one who rejects Me and does not accept My words, that very word which I spoke will condemn him on the **LAST DAY**!" See Matthew 25:31-46; Daniel 12:1,2 and John 5:28}
John 6:40: Jesus says, ""For My Father's will is that **EVERYONE** who looks to the Son and believes in Him {**CHURCH SAINTS**} shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the {*SAME*}**LAST DAY**!"
So God's Word definitely shows that Jesus will resurrect His saints and judge the lost on the **SAME LAST DAY** when He comes **IN GLORY WITH ALL HIS ANGELS**{Matthew 16:27; 24:29,30; 25:31} or **WHEN HE IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS POWERFUL ANGELS** as per 2 Thessalonians 1:1,6-10!!
John 5:28,29: Jesus says, “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming {The **LAST DAY**} when *ALL* {Both OT & NT Saints} who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.”
Daniel 12:1b,2,7b: “There will be a time of distress {The Great Tribulation} such as not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time {The **LAST DAY**} your people--*EVERYONE* whose name is found written in the Book {Both OT & NT Saints}—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt…It will be for a time. times and half a time {1260 days-Rev 12:6,14, or 42 {30-day} months-Rev 13:5-{Not 7 years} *ALL* these things will be **COMPLETED**.
The pre-tribbers wrongly believe that the OT saints will receive their eternal perfect heavenly bodies 7 years or 1260 days AFTER the Church saints. However, in Hebrews 11:39,40 we read “These {OT super saints mentioned in Heb 11:4-38} were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that **ONLY TOGETHER WITH US** {NT Saints} would they {OT Saints} be made perfect!”
Pre-Tribbers also claim that the **HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE REMOVED** from all the saints during the Great Tribulation because of a ridiculous interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:7???
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Mark 13:11: Jesus says, "Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial {During the Great Tribulation}, do not worry beforehand what to say, but say whatever is given to you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the **HOLY SPIRIT**!!!"
Now the Pre-Tribbers claim that all of the NT Church saints will be resurrected in the **FIRST RESURRECTION** just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation??
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Revelation 20:4,5: I saw {24} **THRONES** on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge {The 24 **ELDERS** on 24 **THRONES** as per Rev 4:3,4} And I saw the souls of those who had been **EXECUTED** or **BEHEADED** because of their testimony about Jesus {**NT MARTYRS**} and because of the Word of God **{OT MATYRS**}. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and not received the mark on their foreheads or their hands P**TRIBULATION MARTYRS**!} They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years...This the **FIRST RESURRECTION**!! The rest of the dead {**WHO WERE NOT MARTYRS OR THE 24 ELDERS**} did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended {ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD AT THE 2ND COMING OF JESUS**}
**IF THE GREAT TRIBULATION MARTYRED SAINTS PARTICIPATE IN THE **FIRST RESURRECTION** THEN THE **1.000 YEAR **FIRST RESURRECTION** MUST **END** ON THE LAST DAY OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION WHEN ALL OF GOD'S SAINTS WHO ARE NOT **MARTYRS** OR ONE OF THE 24 ELDERS ARE RESURRECTED IN THE **2ND RESURRECTION** AT THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS!
**FOR EXAMPLE**: IF THE **SECOMD RESURRECTION** OF ALL OF GOD'S SAINTS WHO ARE NOT MARTYRS OR ONE OF THE 24 ELDERS TAKES PLACE AT THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD ON NOVEMBER 4TH, AD 2022 THEN THE CONTINUOUS 1,000 YEAR **FIRST RESEURRECIOIN** FOR MARTYRS AND THE 24 ELDERS WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM NOVEMBER 4TH, AD 1022 TO NOVEMBER 4TH AD 2022!!
Pre-Tribbers also claim that the saints will not go through the Great Tribulation because they would then suffer the **WRATH** of God.
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Romans 5:9: Since we have been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from **GOD'S WRATH** through Him!.
I Thessalonians 5:9: God did not appoint us to suffer **WRATH** but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ!
God's Tribulation saints will not be hurt by **GOD'S WRATH** during the Great Tribulation! The horrific 7 Trumpet Plagues and 7 Bowl Plagues and eternal torment in Hell; are reserved only for the unbelievers and will not hurt God's saints in any way just as the 10 OT Egyptian plagues miraculously did not hurt any of God's people as shown by the following Scripture:
Revelation 9:4-6: They were told to only harm those people who did not have the seal of God on their heads. They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for 5 months. During these days men will seek death, but will not find it they will long to die but death will elude them.
Revelation 9:18,20,21: A third of mankind will be killed by the plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that comes out of their mouths.... The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands, they did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold... Nor did the repent of their murders, their magic arts,their sexual immorality or their thefts!
Revelation 16:2: The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image!
Revelation 16:6: They have shed the blood of your saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink as they deserve!
Revelation 16:9: They were seared by the intense heat and cursed the name of God who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify Him!
Revelation 16:10: Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.
Revelation 14:9,10: If anyone worships the Beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of **HIS WRATH** He will be tormented with burning sulfur...and the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever!
Pre-Tribbers also claim that all of the Church saints will be raptured **BEFORE **the **MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED**??
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3,8: Concerning the **COMING*** of our Lord Jesus and **OUR** {CHURCH SAINTS} being gathered to Him, we ask you brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter, supposed to have come from us, saying that that the **DAY OF THE LORD** has already come. Don't let anyone {Like Pre-Tribbers} deceive you in any way, for **THAT DAY WILL NOT COME** **UNTIL THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED**!..... The lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor **OF HIS COMING**!! {On the **LAST DAY** of the Great Tribulation**} It is interesting to note that the only **COMING** of the Lord Jesus when the **CHURCH SAINTS** are gathered to Him; mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and 2:8; is on the **LAST DAY** of the Great Tribulation!!
Now the Pre-Tribbers claim that in the **SECRET RAPTURE** before the Great Tribulation the Lord Jesus will not **APPEAR** and will not be **REVEALED**??
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WOD SAY**??
I Peter 1:13: “Therefore, prepare your minds for ACTION, and set your hope *FULLY* on the grace to be given YOU when Jesus Christ is **REVEALED**.
I Corinthians 1:7: “**YOU** do not lack any spiritual gift as **YOU** {CHURCH SAINTS**} eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be **REVEALED**.
Now the pre-tribbers claim that the glorious **REVEALING** or *REVELATION* of Jesus will be *CONCEALED* BEFORE the beginning of the Great Tribulation. However, every other time the Word **REVEALED** {Greek-Apocalypsis} is used related to resurrection events it refers to the glorious **REVEALING** of Jesus on the **LAST DAY** of the Great Tribulation {See 2 Thess 1:7-10 & Luke 17:26-31}. And *CONCEALED* is the exact opposite of **REVEALED** and **APPEARED** according to every dictionary! The Word of God clearly shows that the **CHURCH SAINTS** are waiting The **APPEARING** and **REVEALING ** of our Lord Jesus Christ which completely contradicts the Pre-Trib theory that the **CHURCH SAINTS ** are all waiting for a **CONCEALED RAPTURE**???
Titus 2:13 **WE** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**---the glorious **APPEARING** of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ!!
Hebrews 9:28: Jesus will **APPEAR** a 2nd time {And not a 3rd TIME!} to bring salvation **TO THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM**!!
Colossians 3:4: When Christ, who is your life **APPEARS**, then **YOU** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} also will **APPEAR** with Him in glory.”
I John 3:2,3: “When Jesus **APPEARS**, **WE** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. Everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure!!”
Matthew 24:29,30: Jesus says, “IMMEDIATELY AFTER the distress of those days {The Great Tribulation} the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will **APPEAR** in the sky and the nations will see the Son of Man **COMING** on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory!!”
I John 2:28: “Dear children, continue in Him, so that when He *APPEARS* **WE** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} may be confident and unashamed before Him at His COMING!” {See 2 Thess 1:7-10; I Tim 6:14; Heb 9:28 & Col 3:4}
2 Tim 4:8: Paul said, There is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on THAT DAY—and not only to me, but to *ALL* {**CHURCH SAINTS**} who have longed for His **APPEARING**!!” {See Matt 24:30 above!!}
I Peter 5:4: “When the Chief Shepherd **APPEARS**, **YOU** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away!”
2 Thess 1:1,6-10: ‘To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians…God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is **REVEALED** {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire…. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord **ON THE DAY HE COMES** to be glorified in His holy people {**CHURCH SAINTS**}!! This includes **YOU** {Thessalonian **CHURCH SAINTS**}
Now the Pre-Tribbers claim that all the resurrection versus on the second coming of Jesus will occur on the **LAST DAY** of the Great Tribulation **EXCEPT for I Thessalonians 4;16-18 and I Corinthians 15:51,52 which tells of a secret silent rapture just before the Great Tribulation when 666 is revealed???
**BUT WHAT DOES THESE VERSES REALLY TEACH**??
I Corinthians 15:51,52: Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we **ALL** will be changed--in the twinkling of an eye, at the **LAST TRUMPET**. For the **TRUMPET** will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable and **WE** will be changed!
Revelation 8:1,2: When He {Jesus} opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw **7 ANGELS** who stand before God and to them were given **7 TRUMPETS**!
Revelation 11:15,18: The seventh {And **LAST**} angel sounded his {**7TH & LAST**} **TRUMPET**, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and His Christ, and He will reign for ever and ever... The time has come for judging the dead, and rewarding your servants and your saints who reverence your name and for destroying those who destroy the earth!"
And so the **7TH ANGEL** will sound the **7TH** and **LAST TRUMPET** of Revelation on the **LAST DAY** of the Great Tribulation! Which can certainly not be **BEFORE** the Great Tribulation even begins!!
**JESUS WILL COME AS A **THIEF IN THE NIGHT** TO UNBELIEVERS ON THE **DAY OF THE LORD**
I Thessalonians 4:16,17; 5:2,4: For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel {See Rev 14:15} and with the **TRUMPET**{See Matt 24:30 & Rev 11:15,18 & I Cor 15:52} call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the **CLOUDS** {See Matt 24:30 and Rev 14:14} to meet the Lord in the air.... **YOU** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} know very well that the **DAY OF THE LORD** {In I Thess 4:17 above} will come **LIKE A THIEF** in the night {To unbelievers} While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them {Unbelievers} suddenly {On the **SAME DAY** as the Resurrection in I Corinthians 4:17 above!!}... But **YOU** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} brothers, are not in darkness so that **THIS DAY** **SHOULD NOT SURPRISE YOU LIKE A THIEF**. Since you are **ALL** sons of the light and sons of the Day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness!
Revelation 16:15: Behold! I come **LIKE A THIEF**!
Revelation 3:3: Jesus says, "Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come **LIKE A THIEF**, and you will not know at what time I will **COME TO YOU**!"
2 Peter 3:10-13: But the **DAY OF THE LORD** will come **LIKE A THIEF** {To unbelievers}. The heavens will **DISAPPEAR** with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare!... That **DAY**{OF THE LORD}will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with His promise **WE** are looking forward to a **NEW HEAVEN** and a **NEW EARTH**, the **HOME OF RIGHTEOUSNESS**!!
Once the 1260-day Great Tribulation begins all of God's saints who can add will know the exact day of the Second Coming of Jesus on the **LAST DAY OF THE LORD**. And when the stars start falling to earth the saints will know the exact hour of the Second Coming of Jesus!!
Matthew 24:29-31: Jesus says, "Immediately after the distress of those {1260} days the sun will be darkened, and the stars will fall from the sky {Luke 21:28 adds: "When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near!!"} At that time the sign of the Son of Man coming on the **CLOUDS** {See I Thess 4:17} of the sky, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud **TRUMPET** {See I Cor 15:52 & I Thess 4::16 & Rev 11:15,18} call an they will gather His **ELECT** {See Rom 11:5-7; 2 Tim 2:10 & Titus 1:1!}} from the 4 winds, from one end of the heavens to the other!" {Mark 13:27 adds: "From the ends of the earth."}
Now the Pre-Tribbers claim that the **ELECT OF JESUS** mentioned in Matthew 24:22,24 and 31 are all OT Jewish saints and not **CHURCH SAINTS**.
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Romans 11:5-7: At the present time there is a remnant **CHOSEN** by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works, if it were, grace would no longer be grace! What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the **ELECT** did!
2 Timothy 2:10: Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the **ELECT** {**CHURCH SAINTS**}, that they too may obtain the **SALVATION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS**!
Titus 1:1: Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's **ELECT** {**CHURCH SAINTS**}!
In fact, Israel or the Jews are never called the **ELECT** in the entire New Testament!!!
Ephesians 3:6: This mystery is that through the Gospel the Gentiles are **HEIRS TOGETHER** with Israel. Members together of **ONE BODY**, and **SHARERS TOGETHER**in the promise in Christ Jesus!!
John 6:39,44: Jesus says, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me that I shall lose none of all that He has given Me {God's **ELECT**}, but raise them up at the **LAST DAY**... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father **DRAWS** him, and I will raise him {**GOD'S ELECT**} up at the **LAST DAY**!"
John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one who rejects Me and does not accept My words, that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the {**SAME**}**LAST DAY**!"
It is interesting to note that a pre-trib rapture fairy tale of God's saints is not mentioned even **ONCE** in the Olivet Prophetic sermon of Jesus in Matthew 24,25, Mark 13 and Luke 21 and not even **ONCE** in all the prophecies in the book of Revelation. Now the Pre-Tribbers agree that it is completely ridiculous not to have any mention of the resurrection of the **CHURCH SAINTS** in the prophetic book of Revelation.. And so the pre tribbers claim that Revelation 4:1-2 symbolically, somehow shows the rapture of the **CHURCH SAINTS** since John's entrance into heaven {In AD 96}before he is told about the Great Tribulation somehow shows the rapture of all of the church saints just before the Great Tribulation begins about 2,000 years later???
Revelation 4:1-2: In AD 96 John said, "After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, 'Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.'" Now the pre-tribbers claim that John going up to heaven in AD 96, to see what will happen in the future; somehow represents all the living and dead **CHURCH SAINTS** being raptured just before the Great Tribulation which is ridiculous!!
The Last Day resurrections in Revelation 11:15-18 and Revelation 14:14-20 are obviously Post-Trib. And just after Resurrection there is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. Jesus on the **LAST DAY OF THE LORD** will mount a white horse and his saints will follow Him on white horses and they will conquer 666, his False Prophet, their kings and armies on the same Last Day as per Revelation 19:7-21 and Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be His **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!
Now the Pre-Tribbers teach that the Church saints must have been raptured before The Great Tribulation began since the word **CHURCH ** is not mentioned in Revelation chapters 4-21 and therefore the Great Tribulation will not be **FOR THE CHURCHES OR CHURCH SAINTS**???
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
Revelation 22:16,18-20: "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony {**ALL OF REVELATION**}**FOR THE CHURCHES**.{**CHURCH SAINTS**}.. I warn everyone who hears the word of the prophecy of this book. If anyone **ADDS** {Like the Pre-Trib Rapture} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** from this book of prophecy. God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book!!"
Revelation 1:1-3: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show **HIS SERVANTS** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} what must take place. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John, who testifies to everything he saw--that is, the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads the Words of this Prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and **TAKE TO HEART** what is written in it!!
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 17 May, 2019 08:40 PM
The fact that John Nelson Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD is unquestionably true. All attempts to find evidence of this wild doctrine before 1830 have failed, with a single exception: Morgan Edwards wrote a short essay as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where he confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. However Edwards ideas, which he admitted were brand new and never before taught, had no influence in the modern population of the false doctrine. That prize goes to Darby.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Pastor of the Metropolitan Tabernacle and contemporary of Darby, published criticism of Darby and Brethrenism. His main criticism was that Darby and the Plymouth Brethren rejected the vicarious purpose of Christ's obedience as well as imputed righteousness. He viewed these of such importance and so central to the Gospel that it led him to this statement about the rest of their belief.
"Mr. Grant on the Darby Brethren" by Charles Spurgeon from the June 1860 "Sword and the Trowel":
James Grant wrote: "Mr. Darby maintains that a part of Christ's sufferings on the cross, were what he calls 'non-atoning,' that is, that in 'smiting' him as the shepherd on the cross, God did not do so with a view to an atonement for our sins, until a particular point of time, while Christ was hanging on the tree, and that then the wrath of God, in its atoning character, coalesced with his legal wrath. In association with the doctrine that much of the sufferings of Christ on the cross were without any atoning object or effect, Mr. Darby, advancing a step farther, denies that the atonement for our sins consisted even in Christ's death. But as it is probable some persons will find it difficult to believe that any man, professing to hold evangelical principles, and especially the leader of an important religious sect, also professing to be sound in the faith, could entertain such notions."
James Grant wrote: "With the deadly heresies entertained and taught by the Plymouth Brethren, in relation to some of the most momentous of all the doctrines of the Gospel, and to which I have adverted at some length, I feel assured that my readers will not be surprised at any other views, however unscriptural and pernicious they may be, which the Darbyites have embraced and zealously seek to propagate"
Prior to 1830, **NOT EVEN ONE CHURCH** taught the pre-trib rapture in their creed, catechism or statement of faith!!!
NOTE: There will be 2 Comings of Jesus on the **SAME LAST DAY**. The first Coming will be **FOR HIS SAINTS** and the 2nd Coming **WITH HIS SAINTS** **RIDING ON WHITE HORSES** right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB**!!
Revelation 19:6-8,11,13,14,19,20: Hallelujah! For the Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him glory! For the wedding of the **LAMB** has come and His bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean was given her to wear.... I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose Rider is called Faithful and True...He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood and His name is the Word of God. **THE ARMIES OF HEAVEN WERE FOLLOWING HIM ***RIDING ON WHITE HORSES*** and dressed in fine linen white and clean (See Rev 19:8 above}... Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth **AND THEIR ARMIES** gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and His army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. {See Rev 13:11-17} The two of them were thrown **ALIVE** into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Rev 20:10: And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.{Just like all their followers as per Rev 14:9-11}
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB**, but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and with Him will be His **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** {**HIS ELECT**} and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {**RIDING ON FLYING WHITE HORSES** which will be the saints transportation in the **NEW EARTH*.
Jude 14,15: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of His holy ones {**HIS ELECT** Riding White Horses} to judge everyone, and to convict **ALL** the ungodly!!"
I Corinthians 15:22-24: For as in Adam all die, so in Christ **ALL** will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the Firstfruits; **THEN WHEN HE COMES** those who belong to Him. **THEN THE **END** WILL COME** {Not 1260 days later!!}, when He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father!!
And so the saints will be resurrected on the **LAST DAY** and then **AFTER** the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB**, the lost will be resurrected later on the **SAME LAST DAY**. And so this explains Matthew 24:40: Jesus says, "Two will be in the field, one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill one will be taken and the other left!"
Matthew 25:31-34,41,46: Jesus says, "**WHEN** the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him. He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him and He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed by My Father, take your inheritance the Kingdom prepared for you.'... Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal for prepared for the devil and his angels.' ... Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Now the Pre-Tribbers love to quote a promise made to the Church at Philadelphia in AD 96:
Revelation 3:1,10: Jesus said, "To the angel of the church at Philadelphia write... Since you have kept My command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going that is going to come on the whole {Roman} world to test those who live on the earth."
In Ad 96 the Roman Caesar, Domitian, decreed that everyone in the Roman world must worship idols of former Roman Caesars or else they would be killed or put in prison. And because of this decree John was put in prison in AD 96 on the Isle of Patmos as per Revelation 1:9.
However, Jesus did not make the same promise to the future Great Tribulation saints:
Matthew 24:9: Jesus says, "**THEN****YOU** will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and **YOU** will be hated by **ALL NATIONS** because of Me!"
Revelation 13:5-10: The Beast will be given authority for 42 {30-day} months...He will be given power to make war against the **SAINTS** and to conquer them. And he will be given authority over **EVERY** tribe, people language and **NATION** All inhabitants of the earth will worship the Beast--all whose names have not been written in the Book of Life belonging to the **LAMB**{**CHURCH SAINTS**}. He who has an ear let him hear: If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance on the part of the **SAINTS**!
Revelation 12:11: They overcame him by the blood of the **LAMB** and by the word of their testimony: They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death!! {Just Like Jesus!}! Read Revelation 6:9-11 and Revelation 7:9,13-15!!!
Revelation 6:9-11: When He {Jesus} opened the 5th seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain {MARTYRS LIKE JESUS} because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood? Then each of them were given a WHITE ROBE, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed {**TRIBULATION MARTYRS**} as they had been was **COMPLETED**.
This was **COMPLETED** just before the 7 trumpet plagues in Revelation 8:
Revelation 7:9,13-15,17: After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from **EVERY NATION, TRIBE, PEOPLE AND LANGUAGE** standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb {Jesus} They were wearing WHITE ROBES. And they cried out in a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne , and to the Lamb...Then one of the {24} **ELDERS** asked me, "Those in WHITE ROBES--who are they, and where did they come from?" And he said, "These are they who have come out of the *GREAT TRIBULATION* {*MARTYRS LIKE JESUS*}, they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the **LAMB** {**CHURCH SAINTS**}. Therefore, They are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple...The **LAMB** in the center of the throne will be their Shepherd!"
And so the Pre-Trib teaching that the Great Tribulation is only a **TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE** is a complete fairy tale since there will be a "**GREAT MULTITUDE THAT NO ONE COULD COUNT FROM **EVERY** NATION, TRIBE, PEOPLE AND LANGUAGE**" who will be **MARTYRED** during the Great Tribulation!! They will be all filled with the **HOLY SPIRIT** {Mark 13:11} and washed in the blood of the **LAMB** {Rev 7::15 & 12:11} and whose names are written in the **LAMB'S** Book of Life as per Revelation 13:8!!
The Great Tribulation **MARTYRS** who are **AWAKE** in heaven are mentioned over 20 times during the 1260-day Great Tribulation in Revelation 6:9-11; 7:9,10,13-17; 12:11; 13:10; 14:13; 15:2-4; 16:7; 16:24 and 19:2!!
Revelation 4:4 Surrounding God's throne were **24 OTHER THRONES**, on seated on them were **24 ELDERS**. They were dressed in *WHITE* and had crowns of Gold on their heads!
Th 24 Elders on 24 Thrones surrounding God's throne are mentioned 10 times during the 1260-day Great Tribulation in Revelation 4:4,10; 5:6,8.11,14; 7:11,13; 14:3 and 19:4
**WHO ARE THE 24 ELDERS ON 24 THRONES SURROUNDING GOD'S THRONE IN HEAVEN DURING THE 1260-DAY GREAT TRIBULATION**??
Matthew 19:28: Jesus said to his Apostles, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you have **FOLLOWED ME** {The Apostle Paul instead of Judas] will **ALSO SIT ON 12 THRONES, **JUDGING**!!
Luke 22:29,30: Jesus said to His Apostles, "I confer on you a Kingdom, just as My Father conferred one on Me, so that you may eat and drink at My table in My Kingdom and sit on **THRONES**, **JUDGING**!!"
**WHO DESERVES TO SIT ON THE OTHER 12 THRONES SURROUNDING GOD'S THRONE**??
And certainly 12 OT Super saints of God will also deserve sitting on the other **12 **THRONES** surrounding God's throne such as Abraham, David, Moses, Elijah, Daniel, Isaiah, Samuel, Jeremiah, Joseph , Joshua, Noah and Enoch!!
The 24 **ELDERS** on 24 thrones and the **MARTYRS** are the ***ONLY SAINTS*** mentioned in heaven during the Great Tribulation in Revelation chapters 4 through 18!!
I Corinthians 15:51,52: Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all *SLEEP*{Since the Martyrs and 24 Elders on Thrones are **AWAKE**} but we will all be changed--in a flash, in a twinkling of an eye, at the Last {7TH} Trumpet!!
It is interesting to note that the millions of **CHURCH SAINTS** of the last almost 2,000 years; who the pre-tribbers claim were raptured into heaven with new heavenly bodies just before the Great Tribulation; and would be before God's throne with Jesus. They are not even mentioned **ONCE** during the Great Tribulation in heaven in chapters 4 thru 18. The only saints mentioned in Revelation during the Great Tribulation are the **MARTYRS** {20 times} and the **24 ELDERS** {10 times} who sit on 24 Thrones surrounding God's Throne in heaven!! Hmmm!!
However, most of the Pre-Trib super theologians {???} claim that the 24 Elders who sit on 24 Thrones surrounding God's throne as per Rev 4:4; are really millions of raptured **CHURCH SAINTS**?????
Probably the best way to convert a pre-tribber is to have them read 2 Thessalonians 1,6-10 every day for 7 days; since God's Word shows that the **CHURCH SAINTS** will be resurrected and judged **ON THE SAME DAY** as the lost!!
2 Thessalonians 1:1,6-10: ‘To the **CHURCH** of the Thessalonians… God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is **REVEALED** {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire…. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord **ON THE DAY HE COMES** to be glorified in His holy people {**CHURCH SAINTS**}!! This includes **YOU** {Thessalonian *CHURCH SAINTS*}
As we have shown with countless Scripture all of the Great Tribulation saints will be saved by the **BLOOD OF THE LAMB**{Rev 7:14; 12:11}, are in the **LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE**{Rev 13:8}; are filled with the **HOLY SPIRIT**{Mark 13:11} and whenever 2 or more of these extremely brave and courageous Tribulation saints get together to worship you have a ***CHURCH***!!
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 17 May, 2019 08:42 PM
God has always allowed His people to **SUFFER TRIBULATION** and trials because they purify and perfect their faith and will gain countless eternal rewards when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED. There are over 10,000 saints martyred every year and the main culprit is no longer just Islam and the RC Church which killed over 4 million saints. Millions of saints were martyred by the Communist atheist countries after 1917 in Russia and after 1948 in China and then in North Korea and Vietnam. Many more millions were killed by Japan 1937-1945 and by the Fascists in Italy and Germany 1922-1945.
**THE FOLLOWING VERSES CAN NOT BE FOUND IN THE PRE-TRIB BIBLE WHICH IS REALLY A SNEAKY PART OF THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL**!!
Romans 8:35-37: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?... For your sake **WE FACE DEATH ALL DAY LONG**; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered. No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us!”
John 13:34: Jesus says, "A **NEW COMMAND** I give you: **LOVE* one another As I have **LOVED** you, so you must **LOVE** one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples." John 15:12,13: Jesus says, "My command is this: **LOVE** each other as I have **LOVED** you. Greater **LOVE** has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
I John 3:16: This how we know what **LOVE** is: Jesus Christ laid down His life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers!
I Peter 2:20b,21: But if you **SUFFER FOR DOING GOOD** and endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow **IN HIS STEPS**!
I Peter 4:12,13: “Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But **REJOICE THAT YOU PARTICIPATE IN THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST**, so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is *REVEALED!”
Matthew 5:10-12 Jesus says, “Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. **REJOICE** and be glad, because **GREAT IS YOUR REWARD** **IN HEAVEN**!!"
2 Timothy 3:12: “In fact, **EVERYONE** who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be **PERSECUTED**!”
Romans 5:3: “But we **REJOICE IN OUR SUFFERINGS** because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope!
Philippians 1:29: For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on Him, but also to **SUFFER FOR HIM**!
Philippians 3:10: “I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of **SHARING IN HIS SUFFERINGS**!
Revelation 12:11: “They overcame him {666} by the **BLOOD OF THE LAMB** {**CHURCH SAINTS**} and by the word of their testimony; for they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death!”
Rev 2:10: Jesus says, “Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the **CROWN OF LIFE**.”
Matthew 24:3,9-13: The disciples {**CHURCH SAINTS**} asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your Coming and the end of the age?? Jesus answered….. {During the Great Tribulation} “Then **YOU** will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and **YOU** will be hated by all nations because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of *MOST* will grow cold, {THE GREAT APOSTASY} but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the End will be saved.”
This *GREAT APOSTASY** at the beginning of the Great Tribulation is called a **REBELLION** in 2 Thess 2:3!
Revelation 13:5,7-10: The Beast will be given authority for 42 months.. He will be given power to make war against the **SAINTS** and to conquer them... All inhabitants of the earth will worship the Beast--all whose names have not been written in the Book of Life belonging to the **LAMB**. {**CHURCH SAINTS**} He who has an ear let him hear: If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance on the part of the **SAINTS**!
Revelation 14:12,13: This calls for patient endurance on the part of the **SAINTS** who obey God's {NT} commandments and remain faithful to Jesus! {**CHURCH SAINTS**} Then I heard a Voice from heaven say, "**BLESSED** are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!" *Yes," says the Spirit, "They will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them!"
This will come as a tremendous shock for those who teach the Prosperity Gospel and who are mainly seeking earthly treasures rather than eternal Heavenly Rewards. They teach: If you accept Jesus as your Savior you have a free pass to Heaven and God forbid that you should suffer any persecution or go through the Great Tribulation; which fits in with the Prosperity Gospel doctrines which are designed to increase church membership at the expense of the Truth. When is the last time you heard a sermon on the virtues and courage of the many thousands of present-day martyrs?? And this is probably why there will be a great FALLING AWAY {THE GREAT APOSTASY} at the beginning of the Great Tribulation as per Matthew 24:10-12!!
Romans 8:35,37-39: Who shall separate us from the **LOVE** of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...We are more than conquerors through Him who **LOVED** us! For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the **LOVE** of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!!
Isaiah 46:9-11: "I am God, and there is no other. I am God, and there is none like Me! I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come... What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned that will I do!!"
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 18 May, 2019 02:12 AM
You make a mistake by calling the Tribulation Saints the Church of our Lord, the Church will be partaking in the marriage supper of the Lamb. If I be mistake, then explain to me why did the Lord say in Luke 17:34-36 that he would take one of two people that could be found in the same place! If the Rapture takes place during or after the Tribulation, then why would the Lord not comment that those he would take away from the world aren't instantly glorified in plain sight? Common people should be able to see something unbelievable taking place right in front of them, but the Word doesn't tell us anything like that. Or how do you explain 1 Thessalonians 5:9?
You clearly ignore a spiritual reality here, the believer and member of the Church lives in an age of Grace where the Holy Spirit is present and prevents the son of perdition from clearly reveal himself. The Tribulation and Great Tribulation aka Jacob's Trouble is designed as a way to teach Israel that He is the Lord, that the Lamb they rejected was the very same Lion of Judah they have been expecting the whole time, plus it is a time to judge the sinful world full of Gentiles that chose to reject the Truth. If the Church were present during the Tribulation, then why would need God to choose 144000 people among the Tribes of Israel to preach? Isn't preaching the Church's job commissioned by the Lord Himself in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark? Then why doesn't the Lord command His Church to do the job during the Tribulation? That's because His beloved Church is no more on earth! Besides why would the Lord judge His Church on earth with wrath when he promised us that he would do it on Heaven? I Thessalonians 4:15-18 clearly tells those living in the times of the Apostles that they should work hard and persevere in the Lord, but as we know already, the world was not judge back then and even so the Word is never wrong about anything. Then it got to mean the passage is a call to encourage us to work diligently (physically and spiritually) before the rapture. Just think about it, what would let us feel spiritual joy we need to persevere? Being punished harshly even if we are believers? Or sparing us of such test like Malachi 3:17 says? Aren't believers His jewels? Who would ever expose jewels to any sort of danger? They would become unworthy and no promise would not make any sense then. I'm pretty sure that gaining the privilege does indeed motivate anybody aware of it to work harder than usual!
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 19 May, 2019 04:19 PM
Hi salty, you and the christians have been lied to for a long tome about the Pretribulation rapture.
The rascally charlitans known as self appointed pastors refuse to translate the Word of GOD Almighty; They also usurp the authority of the ELDERS.
The people are not being taught how to read, study or translate the Word of GOD Almighty; Because of the Biblical ignorance of the sheeple, they are told lies, and they believe the lies.
Let us look at the real LORDS prayer and see what Messiah says about believers leaving this life.
John 17 verses 15 -21
Look at verses 15 and 20
14"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15"I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil [one]. 16"They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17"Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18"As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19"For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
20"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, [are] in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 19 May, 2019 04:28 PM
Salty, the English word 'rapture' is from the Greek word ' hapazo '
Bible > Strong's > Greek > 726
◄ 726. harpazó ►
Strong's Concordance
harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Definition: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Usage: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.
HELPS Word-studies
726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force (i.e. not covertly or secretly).
This word is used 14 times in the New Covenant, not once is anyone removed before the tribulation, which lasts 3. 5 years, each year is 360 days long.
Englishman's Concordance
Matthew 11:12 V-PIA-3P
GRK: καὶ βιασταὶ ἁρπάζουσιν αὐτήν
NAS: and violent men take it by force.
KJV: take it by force.
INT: and [the] violent seize it
Matthew 12:29 V-ANA
GRK: σκεύη αὐτοῦ ἁρπάσαι ἐὰν μὴ
NAS: house and carry off his property,
INT: goods of him to plunder if not
Matthew 13:19 V-PIA-3S
GRK: πονηρὸς καὶ ἁρπάζει τὸ ἐσπαρμένον
NAS: [one] comes and snatches away what
KJV: [one], and catcheth away that which
INT: evil one and snaches away that which was sown
John 6:15 V-PNA
GRK: ἔρχεσθαι καὶ ἁρπάζειν αὐτὸν ἵνα
NAS: to come and take Him by force to make
KJV: take him by force, to make
INT: to come and seize him that
John 10:12 V-PIA-3S
GRK: ὁ λύκος ἁρπάζει αὐτὰ καὶ
NAS: and the wolf snatches them and scatters
KJV: and the wolf catcheth them, and
INT: the wolf snatches them and
John 10:28 V-FIA-3S
GRK: καὶ οὐχ ἁρπάσει τις αὐτὰ
NAS: one will snatch them out of My hand.
KJV: shall any [man] pluck them out of
INT: and never will seize anyone them
John 10:29 V-PNA
GRK: οὐδεὶς δύναται ἁρπάζειν ἐκ τῆς
NAS: is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's
KJV: [man] is able to pluck [them] out of
INT: no one is able to seize out of the
Acts 8:39 V-AIA-3S
GRK: πνεῦμα Κυρίου ἥρπασεν τὸν Φίλιππον
NAS: of the Lord snatched Philip
KJV: of the Lord caught away Philip,
INT: [the] Spirit of [the] Lord carried away Philip
Acts 23:10 V-ANA
GRK: στράτευμα καταβὰν ἁρπάσαι αὐτὸν ἐκ
NAS: to go down and take him away from them by force, and bring
KJV: and to take him by force from among
INT: troop having gone down to take by force him from
2 Corinthians 12:2 V-APP-AMS
GRK: θεὸς οἶδεν ἁρπαγέντα τὸν τοιοῦτον
NAS: such a man was caught up to the third
KJV: such an one caught up to
INT: God knows having been caught up such a one
2 Corinthians 12:4 V-AIP-3S
GRK: ὅτι ἡρπάγη εἰς τὸν
NAS: was caught up into Paradise and heard
KJV: How that he was caught up into
INT: that he was caught up to
1 Thessalonians 4:17 V-FIP-1P
GRK: σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις
NAS: and remain will be caught up together
KJV: [and] remain shall be caught up together
INT: with them will be caught away in [the] clouds
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 20 May, 2019 07:15 AM
The meaning of the English word **RAPTURE**:
According to Strong's Concordance; **RAPTURE** means: A displacement of the mind, bewilderment, ecstasy.
According o the Merriman Webster dictionary: **RAPTURE means : An expression or manifestation of ecstasy or passion.
The English word ecstasy is **NEVER** mentioned in the New Testament.
The English words passion, passionate and passions are mentioned 6 times in the New Testament and has nothing to do with the Resurrection of God's saints:
Passion: I Corinthians 7:9
Passionate: I Thessalonians 4:5
Passions: Romans 7:5, Galatians 5:24, Titus 2:12, Titus 3:3:
Titus 2:11,12: The grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly **PASSIONS**, and to live upright and Godly lives, in this present age!
Titus 3:3: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of **PASSIONS** and pleasures.
And so the English word **RAPTURE** does not at all refer to the **RESURRECTION** of God's saints at the glorious second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 20 May, 2019 07:48 AM
The meaning of the English word **RAPTURE**:
According to Strong's Concordance; **RAPTURE** means: A displacement of the mind, bewilderment, ecstasy.
According o the Merriman Webster dictionary: **RAPTURE means : An expression or manifestation of ecstasy or passion.
The English word ecstasy is **NEVER** mentioned in the New Testament.
The English words passion, passionate and passions are mentioned 6 times in the New Testament and has nothing to do with the Resurrection of God's saints:
Passion: I Corinthians 7:9
Passionate: I Thessalonians 4:5
Passions: Romans 7:5, Galatians 5:24, Titus 2:12, Titus 3:3:
Titus 3:3: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of **PASSIONS** and pleasures.
Titus 2:11,12: The grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly **PASSIONS**, and to live upright and Godly lives, in this present age, while **WE** {Church Saints} wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the **GLORIOUS APPEARING** {Not a secret rapture} of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ!!
And so the English word **RAPTURE** does not at all refer to the **RESURRECTION** of God's saints at the **GLORIOUS APPEARING** of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 20 May, 2019 02:55 PM
Richard, what nonsense have you posted this time. You do not translate the Word, nor do you look into the Greek texts to find what i have posted about the so called 'rapture' theory.
If you are going to continue to post nonsense after a person posts truth, then be a blessing to everyone and delete your account here, and do not return.
**POST-TRIB RESURRECTION VERSUS PRE-TRIB RAPTURE**
Posted : 20 May, 2019 04:07 PM
Ridiculous quote by gracenotworkssaves:
"Salty, the English word 'rapture' is from the Greek word ' harpazo ."
Strong's Concordance:
harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away.
Whereas the English word **RAPTURE** has a completely different meaning from the Greek word **HARPAZO** which many *PRE-TRIBBERS** like gracenotworkssaves want you to believe!
gracenotworkssaves Quote:
"I cannot wait for the pre-tribulation *RAPTURE*."
The meaning of the English word **RAPTURE**:
According to Strong's Concordance; **RAPTURE** means:
A displacement of the mind, bewilderment, ecstasy.
According o the Merriman Webster dictionary: **RAPTURE means : An expression or manifestation of **ECSTASY** or **PASSION**!
The English word ecstasy is **NEVER** mentioned in the New Testament.
The English words passion, passionate and passions are mentioned 6 times in the New Testament and has nothing to do with the Resurrection of God's saints:
Passion: I Corinthians 7:9
Passionate: I Thessalonians 4:5
Passions: Romans 7:5, Galatians 5:24, Titus 2:12, Titus 3:3:
Titus 3:3: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of **PASSIONS** and pleasures.
Titus 2:11,12: The grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly **PASSIONS**, and to live upright and Godly lives, in this present age, while **WE** {Church Saints} wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the **GLORIOUS APPEARING** {Not a secret rapture} of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ!!
And so the English word **RAPTURE** does not at all refer to the **RESURRECTION** of God's saints at the **GLORIOUS APPEARING** of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that **WE** {Church Saints} are all waiting for on the **LAST DAY** of the Great Tribulation!
