Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 9 May, 2022 11:50 PM
Hi guys. I don't think it is a huge secret that a lot of single women date with a list at hand with all of her demands, and wants in the man she is dating. I guess some men also have sort of a list they work from when choosing whom to date.
Do you think it is possible or even realistic for people to have demands on their list of traits in a partner that they themselves don't live up to. I am just curious because some women have tendencies to demand that the man have to make a certain amount of money, own a house or a car when they themselves don't. It could also be people of spesific colour being clear they only date other colours. It could also be people being people with sexual relationship(s) in the past demanding only to date virgins.
What are your takes on these kind of lists, and how someones lists don't match up to their own life and behaviour?
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 15 May, 2022 08:41 PM
>> I don't think it is a huge secret that a lot of single women date with a list at hand with all of her demands, and wants in the man she is dating.
No, it's not a secret.
>> I guess some men also have sort of a list they work from when choosing whom to date.
Yes, we do, but our lists, generally speaking, tend to be simpler and, relative to women's, based on a different set of standards.
>> Do you think it is possible or even realistic for people to have demands on their list of traits in a partner that they themselves don't live up to.
I think "it depends". For example, while I may not post this explicitly in my profile, an item in a man's list of preferences (not "demands") is that they should find the woman physically attractive. Does that mean I have to be physically attractive? I don't think I can answer that question because I'm not rating myself that way; that is up to the woman looking at me to decide.
The problem isn't one of whether or not to have preferences - it's about them being unrealistic and/or unreasonable. For example, can a woman to "demand" a 6-figure salary from any potential man? Can they "demand" he be at least 6 feet tall? Sure, but is it *reasonable* or even realistic? (Rhetorical question).
Just to give you some perspective, in the USA, <4% of the male population is at least 6 feet tall, and that includes men who are married, in prison, claim to be homosexuals, and/or anything else that would make them unavailable to you. Only about 9% of men have 6-figure salaries. Now, men who are *both* at least 6 feet *and* have 6-figure salaries is ~0.36% at best (0.04 * 0.09 = 0.0036). Perhaps you've heard of the 80/20 rule (i.e. 80% of women competing for the top 20% of men)?
There's nothing wrong with going for the average guy, *especially* if for the average woman. (Except that, according to OKC data, most women think they themselves are "above average" and ~80% of men are "below average".)
>> I am just curious because some women have tendencies to demand that the man have to make a certain amount of money, own a house or a car when they themselves don't.
In cases like these, I think it could be a double-standard (i.e. hypocrisy)? It depends. If a woman wants a traditional man, then she must herself be a traditional woman. A woman that does not have a history of being traditional herself does not get to "demand" traditional men later in life - especially if they spent their teens/twenties doing hookups and the like.
>> It could also be people of spesific[sic] colour[sic] being clear they only date other colours.
I don't have an issue with people who have skin-color preferences. That's not racism. To be clear, actual racism is when someone claims that certain people are *superior or inferior* on the basis of skin color, ethnicity, etc. Since that's not what's going on in such a case, then it's a non-issue.
There's also the (rather unfortunate fact) that certain subcultures have different track records, which might also affect these kinds of choices (i.e. dating based on sub-cultural norms and behaviors). For example, in the black community, an overwhelming number of women have a tendency to be very disrespectful of men in their lives. It's unfortunate, but it's not hard to notice, given a lot of the time, it's so overt.
>> It could also be people being people with sexual relationship(s) in the past demanding only to date virgins.
In this case, I think it's hypocrisy. If a man or woman is *not* a virgin, they're *not* in a position to "demand" this from anyone else. That being said, I also think the opposite is true: if a man or woman *is* a virgin, then I think they have a better justification for filtering out people who aren't.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 15 May, 2022 10:05 PM
Thanks for a long answer highlighting some of the things I didn't write, but also am aware of. As a "white" woman on this site only dating within Scandinavia, (for practical reasons) I do hear a lot from men of other colours that I am racist for not wanting to date them, despite the fact is that I don't date anyone of any colour who residents outside of Scandinavia.
I also have a lot of messages in my DMs from men of various colours saying they are only looking for a white woman (weird thing to classify from, as white women live all over the world, and are extremely different in all kinds of ways.)
Others message me and tell me they are spesifically looking for a virgin, and if I ask them why, they have no real explanation except they want it to prove she is a woman of "virtue" who kan be "trusted". ect. How does really a "virginity" prove that? Some of these men are in the category of "twice divorced" themselves, or other kinds of situations I know for sure my virgin friends won't be interested in dating.
I also find it logical for men to demand physical attractiveness, this is of cause a very individual taste, so I can mention that women too in most cases demands this, although I myself don't measure it by if a man has a certain hight, weight, muscle mass, six pack, hairline or eye colour. Looks could matter less to a woman based on a mans charm, humor, and if he makes her feel special and safe.
I also doubth marriages building solemnly on a woman choosing a man for his wealth will be a happy one. My demand for a man to have a job is solemnly so he wont be sitting on his a** all day long, but be out of the house so that I can have some time for myself when he is at work and I am having a day off.
My last date was a man who were explisit about liking everything about me (looks and personality) but even if I didn't find him very attractive or interesting decided I would not eliminate him for that kind of reasons. When he told me he didn't repent from any of his sins, but still believed himself to be a Christian, that was when I quit him.
This could be a very interesting topic, and I sure do discuss it with my single female friends. It is nice to get a mans perspective too.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 23 May, 2022 08:17 PM
>> As a "white" woman on this site only dating within Scandinavia, (for practical reasons) I do hear a lot from men of other colours that I am racist for not wanting to date them, despite the fact is that I don't date anyone of any colour who residents outside of Scandinavia.
Ask them to define what they think "racism" is and you might find that most (all?) of the definitions given are stupid. It has become a trend to attack people as being "racist" simply for not being a leftist like the people making the attack, for example.
>> I also have a lot of messages in my DMs from men of various colours saying they are only looking for a white woman (weird thing to classify from, as white women live all over the world, and are extremely different in all kinds of ways.)
I don't see what the problem is on this one. If people can have preferences for hair color, height, weight, what's wrong with skin color preferences? It's just another attribute that has *nothing* to do with the belief that someone may be "superior" or "inferior" on that basis.
>> Others message me and tell me they are spesifically looking for a virgin, and if I ask them why, they have no real explanation except they want it to prove she is a woman of "virtue" who kan be "trusted". ect. How does really a "virginity" prove that?
While I don't know that it would "prove" the presense of "virtue", I can at least understand the likely logical reasoning behind it: she has not spent her time hooking up and, quite frankly, prostituting herself. Personally, the fact that I'm one myself would be part of *my* reasoning. That being said, I realize that, in the world we live in, where we have the "modern" sexually "liberated" woman, my chances of finding someone who has taken this seriously are likely to be low.
>> Some of these men are in the category of "twice divorced" themselves, or other kinds of situations I know for sure my virgin friends won't be interested in dating.
Some, perhaps, but not *all* of them, right? In any case, those who actually are in the group you describe above come across as hypocrites - at a minimum.
>> I also find it logical for men to demand physical attractiveness, this is of cause a very individual taste, so I can mention that women too in most cases demands this, although I myself don't measure it by if a man has a certain hight, weight, muscle mass, six pack, hairline or eye colour. Looks could matter less to a woman based on a mans charm, humor, and if he makes her feel special and safe.
According to a paper on Psychology I read (and referenced) several years ago (that I can't seem to find right now), it noted the following analogy (I'm paraphrasing): A woman's physical attractiveness is to a man what a man's socio-economic status is to a woman.
Basically, the study was saying that in the same way men often "rate" or "evaluate" women on the basis of physical attractiveness, women tend to "rate" or "evaluate" men on the basis of his financial and social status, meaning, men tend to reject women when they don't find them physically attractive and women tend to reject men when they don't find them economically attractive.
At least women have the certainty that the man wants her. The man has no certainty on whether she wants him or what he has - and will simply "jump ship" if a period of economic hardship presents itself.
It is what it is, I guess ...
>> I also doubth marriages building solemnly on a woman choosing a man for his wealth will be a happy one.
It depends on how you define happiness. Perhaps the priority of some women is more about economic life-style and social status than one of "happiness", in the way you may be thinking about.
>> My demand for a man to have a job is solemnly so he wont be sitting on his a** all day long, but be out of the house so that I can have some time for myself when he is at work and I am having a day off.
I get it, no one wants to be with someone lazy, but your reason does not seem to come across in a good way... you want him to have a job and "be out of the house" so that *you* get to sit on you "a** all day long"?... That's the way it's coming across to me.
>> This could be a very interesting topic, and I sure do discuss it with my single female friends. It is nice to get a mans perspective too.
I'm just one guy. Don't try to turn one man's personal view/opinion into something more than what it is - I'm not statistically significant.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 23 May, 2022 10:35 PM
Hi there. I like your reply. I just wanted to address one thing (and a few bonus things):
>"I get it, no one wants to be with someone lazy, but your reason does not seem to come across in a good way... you want him to have a job and "be out of the house" so that *you* get to sit on you "a** all day long"?... That's the way it's coming across to me."
English is my third language, so it was hard to describe this in a reasonable way. I am not that lazy, I am an introvert social worker who works 100% (or more) but I have a live-in job where I work and live at an orphanage for 3-4 days(and nights) at a time. Therefore I have 7 days off in between my shifts.
When I have those 7 days off, I need rest, also from the extroversion I have lived with for 73 or 97 hours straight. If my husband then was unemployed he would litterally most likely be around the house all that time, when I need some quiet time right after getting off work. Even if I got him to not talk to me for 8 hours stright, he would make small amounts of noice if he did anything other than sitting or laying still all day long.
That is why I want him to have a job so that he'll be out of the house for at least a few hours, so that my brain can rest. I'm not nessesarily sitting down all that time. I might be doing gardening, hiking, laundry, cleaning around the house, so this is actually a peace of mind thing, not that I need his money. I'd be perfectly capable of supporting an unemployed husband with my income.
I hope this clarified a bit more what I was up to.
I can also say one thing about when men writes to me and seem interested because I am "a white woman." The reason this was mentioned was also that so many of these men did not read my profile, they send me a "copy paste" message, I guess they send to all white women who interests them. That is also counter productive if they want response or even interest back. We do sense it long way that these men didn't read our profiles. It was meant as a comment that could start some thought processes among those operating in that kind of style, just so they are aware why and how they do things, and that we do notice from their style.
Not all men who are openly searching for virgins are twice divorced, but it was a caracteristic I thought I could use to underline a point. Many of them are far from virgins themselves, although they might have never been married before.
If a virgin man is looking for a virgin wife I would consider that less controversial, but I have also observed many men state this on their profiles, and at that point it might scare women away, because it is such a weird thing to broadcast to the world when you are meeting someone for the first time, visiting their profile.
I had another date yesterday, and this time the man had the best social-wealth situation one can imagine. He had a job as a computer engineer, a 4 bedroom house fully paid for. A modern electric car fully paid for, and one of the most beautiful bengal cats (expensive) I have seen. He just had no romantic tension at all, little to none humor, quite low attractiveness, and conversation flow was not the best. He would most certainly have been a safe choice to take home to my mother, but also potentially a boring person to spend a lifetime with. I will eventually need to meet someone that I feel attracted to without seing their bank account.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 23 May, 2022 11:48 PM
>> English is my third language, so it was hard to describe this in a reasonable way.
I see. I think that clarifies quite a bit and I'll keep it in mind. (Your English is good enough to fool me into thinking you were a naitive speaker, so that's why I took issue with the original statement.) I also understand the introvert aspect, because I'm also an introvert myself - I *must* have my alone time. In fact, finding someone who can actually *understand* this basic point and not turn it into some sort of stupid relationship crisis is also problematic... (I was in one relationship ~20 years ago; she was an extrovert. I've been alone ever since.)
>> Not all men who are openly searching for virgins are twice divorced, but it was a caracteristic I thought I could use to underline a point. Many of them are far from virgins themselves, although they might have never been married before.
I understand that, and, to be honest, for certain things, I don't think people get to expect something from others that they themselves have failed to offer. Virginity before marriage is one of those things, IMO - i.e. if a person isn't, then they don't get to "demand" that the other person ought to be. Either the same standard they seek to apply to others also gets applied to themselves, or it applies to no one.
>> If a virgin man is looking for a virgin wife I would consider that less controversial
It shouldn't be. At point like this should be considered reasonable. If I spent my time preserving certain things, based on Christian principles, rather than prostituting myself, why should it be "unreasonable" for me to expect the same from someone else? (Rhetorical question)
>> I have also observed many men state this on their profiles, and at that point it might scare women away [...]
Well, this is a catch-22 if I ever saw one. On the one hand, women who want a Christian man, which is supposed to imply certain things. On the other hand, women get scared away if a man publicly states he's a virgin. Women like these need to understand that you cannot have both at the same time - especially when we're talking about mutually exclusive options.
>> because it is such a weird thing to broadcast to the world when you are meeting someone for the first time, visiting their profile.
Perhaps. I don't put things like that in my profile, but I wouldn't be ashamed of mentioning that to a woman if we're talking about the subject *and* I think that's something that particular woman should know about me. (I don't just go around telling something like that to anyone.)
>> I had another date yesterday, and this time the man had the best social-wealth situation one can imagine. He had a job as a computer engineer, a 4 bedroom house fully paid for. A modern electric car fully paid for, and one of the most beautiful bengal cats (expensive) I have seen. He just had no romantic tension at all, little to none humor, quite low attractiveness, and conversation flow was not the best.
Sounds like you're having some luck. I either get "not interested. thank you" or scammers that need to have their accounts banned. I think I've given up here in this site. I may or may not keep the account around for exchanging messages and so on. Who knows.
>> He would most certainly have been a safe choice to take home to my mother, but also potentially a boring person to spend a lifetime with. I will eventually need to meet someone that I feel attracted to without seing their bank account.
I don't know what it is that you hope to find that you wouldn't consider "boring", but judging from your own description of your own life, it sounds like there're at least 2 problems: 1) most lives are average, by definition, and they are what you make of them - I hope you're not trying to find some James Bond-type of "exciting"; and, 2) you don't seem to have a lot of time for "excitement" even if you could find it anyway - given your work schedules and introversion. (I know that, as an introvert, I tend to rely on routines, and most of them involve staying at home.)
I'm not saying you ought to go for anyone in particular, but let's face it, there's also nothing wrong with having a so-called "normal" life with a regular/average guy.
If the OKC data shows anything, though, it's that most women seem to have a skewed view of men and of themselves, so they always (incorrectly) *claim* they're "settling" for a man because, in their minds, they *think* they "deserve" better - which, tbh, is disrespectful towards the man they *do* have (if at all) - and it's also incorrect b/c it's men who have been "dating down" from the beginning of time.
A while back, there was one instance where a woman recounted (twitter) that she was talking to a man she was interested in and he asked her if she would date a struggling man (read: struggling financially) and her reply was "no". She says the man's reply to her was "well, to me, *you* are the struggling man" and he left. I don't know if she learned anything from it, but at least it made enough of an impact on her that she posted it online. I thought it was funny... because it was true.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 24 May, 2022 12:04 AM
Haha, thanks again for the response.
I am not having a lot of time for pleasure, but I do find great joy in spontaneous small activities, like random walks, random meals, random car trips, exploring new sites, random sports, and random cooking when I am hanging out with my best friend or other close friends. I would have appreciated to find a husband who could be doing stuff like that with me.
It is also something when you talk to someone and the conversation is LIT. You find topics you're both passionate about and have a real engaging conversation. That to me is key. I meet a lot of men like that, but mainly not single, or not within my age-limitations.
I didn't describe yesterdays date in detail, but even our waitor at the restaurant must have sensed something was off. To me it felt like he wasn't putting his heart into the date. He even said he had been "scammed" and "ghosted" so many times he didn't expect me to show up at the date.
That lack of self confidence stuck by him through the night. There were some red flags, and just the lack of romantic tension on top of that, makes him a not very strong contendor when I have other matches lined up whom I seem to have better chemistry with.
Since he didn't expect me to show up, he didn't even dress for a restaurant date, (wore jeans+ a work-out-jacket, black tennis socks and sports sandals) and the whole thing became a bit uncomfortable since I compared to him was way over dressed and prepared for the date like a normal person wearing a dress, high heels, make up, earrings, perfume, ect.
The entire experience became a bit off, and then I know I would rather be alone than with someone I feel is not invested if that even makes sense.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 24 May, 2022 12:32 AM
>> The entire experience became a bit off, and then I know I would rather be alone than with someone I feel is not invested if that even makes sense.
It does. My way of saying it is "I'd rather be lonely and sad than accompanied and miserable". That being said, I don't know that anyone really wants either of those options.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 24 May, 2022 12:49 AM
I'd rather be alone and eventually miss the romance and company of a husband, than to be with a husband that I might end up resenting because I chose him only to aviod the first scenario.
I don't want to settle for someone who can't impress me with their personality. Someone I will be proud to introduce to my friends. I also need someone I can respect, and that is hard when the only thing I must base the respect on his his social status.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 24 May, 2022 01:22 AM
>> I'd rather be alone and eventually miss the romance and company of a husband, than to be with a husband that I might end up resenting because I chose him only to aviod the first scenario.
Well, I think the only thing that would lead to your 2nd scenario is if you make your choice by for the (fundamentally) wrong reasons.
>> I don't want to settle for someone who can't impress me with their personality.
I don't get why women believe that they must be "impressed" before they're willing to seriously consider the man in front of them - or what they would define as "impressive" in the first place - but, then again, I'm not here to change anyone's mind. There're many more things I could mention on this point, but I'm keeping this one short.
>> Someone I will be proud to introduce to my friends.
I think I understand what you mean, but, fundamentally, why does it matter what your friends think of him? Are you expecting your friends to marry him that you must have their approval? Is it a competition? Are you comparing him to the men your friends are with? If not, then why does it matter?...
>> I also need someone I can respect, and that is hard when the only thing I must base the respect on his his social status.
Well, according to the Bible, some key reasons why you're supposed to respect the man you're with are: 1) he's the head of the wife and household (Ephesians 5:23); 2) based on his *character*, not his worldly "social status".
If we're candid about it, you're not really respecting the man - you're "respecting" his "social status". (There's a difference.) From a rational/logical point of view, knowing that social status depends on what *other people* think, knowing that it's unpredictable, and knowing it can change without your control (e.g. become unemployed and hit financial hardship), it necessarily follows that your level of "respect" for this hypothetical man would also change and could quite easily turn into resentment - or worse. First, this seems contrary to every marriage vow I've ever heard of, and 2nd, why wouldn't this hypothetical man believe that you would remain loyal to him and wouldn't abandon him if situations outside of his control change for the worse? It's a rhetorical question, but I hope you see where this is going..
At least to me, it seems like your way of evaluating the situation is off, but, like I said, I'm not here to try and change anyone's mind about it.
Can you have something on the "must have list" that you don't have yourself?
Posted : 24 May, 2022 01:25 AM
Correction of Typo: "why *should* this hypothetical man believe that you would remain loyal to him *instead of abandoning* him if situations outside of his control change for the worse? It's a rhetorical question, but I hope you see where this is going.."
