My personal belief is that fear is a natural emotion just like any other.
However, the fact that the Bible addresses this issue (numerous times) proves to me that God knew this is something that man would struggle with. To say that we should fear only the Lord seems very simple and to someone extremly grounded in their faith may be easy to do. I personally believe that God realized that this would be a life time worth of struggle as even the disciples feared things other than the Lord.
example:
One of the biggest fears humans naturally have is of death. I believe this is one of the many reasons Jesus chose to appear to Peter and Mary after his crusifiction and during his resurrection. He wanted to prove that those who truly believed could conquer even death.
I would also like to point out that just as we shouldn't allow fear of fellow man to dictate and control our lives God doesn't want our fear of him to dictate and control our relationship with him.
It is my belief that fear of God shoud result in the following:
1.) Proper use of Grace
2.) Fear of God should lead to the understanding of the concept of God's mercy.
I'm sure there are others, but those are the top two in my book!
Thanks to everyone for responding and posting; this however will be my last post as I can see this is leading down the wrong path.
In regards to the last post:
I assumed nothing. I would like to clarify one thing: The second person I mentioned is in fact Jewish so many would not consider him Christian, but that is a debate for another time. It is possible to be a theologian and Christian at the same time and in fact in my opinion these people are just as important as ministry because they appeal to a different type of non-believer.
Also, the concept of always existing did not come about when the Bible was written. History has shown that humans have questioned this and attempted to answer since we were created. There are many books that answer this question, the Bible being one of them. Again, I think we have our Christian blinders on and are not thinking like a non-believer.
What I am saying is to a non-believer it is equally possible that God created the earth (or a different God) as it is to believe that no God existed and the universe always was.
Finally, I agree that it is God that draws a person in, but God works through each and everyone of us. He may draw a person in by using one of us as an instrument (this is often the case).
This entire thread I have been trying to make an argument for educating ourselves in our beliefs without using the Bible, but seeing as how we are all believers my point may be made more clear this way:
When Jesus spoke to the non-believers was there ever a question he couldn't answer? How did he get people to follow and believe in him besides miracles? He used parables and outsmarted the pharasies. He RELATED to them. He didn't have the luxury of the Bible; even if he did have a Bible he wouldn't have needed it. When God himself talked to people did they immediately convert? No, but he planted the best seed he possibly could using infinite knowledge and understanding, realizing that the growth may occur later in the person's life. He gave us a blueprint to follow. Since we are not born with infinite knowledge and will never obtain it the best we can do is educate and test ourselves to become more knowledgable and thus create a stronger relationship with God and help lead our brothers and sister to him while he works through us.
We have it easy. We aren't trying to prove we are God, we just have to help people understand that God exists and that he loves and wants them in his kingdom.
Anyways, I'm very sorry, but this thread is not going the way I wanted it to and I cannot state what I have stated in any and all of my posts clearer than I already have.
In closing I would like to thank everyone for reading this post or commenting on it.
Thank you everyone for responding/reading my thread.
I feel really bad as a Christian for countering arguments and the truth is I don't have a definitive answer to the question. No one really does. The one thing I took away from this when I was posed the question was that there is no rational argument for God and that is why it is on us Christians to lead by example and to work extra hard with non-believers to help make God's job easier (this is where i would agree with a previous post that God needs to 'grow the seed'). If I had died before last year I would not have been saved and I realize how many people out there are not going to be saved. Truth is you will not encounter too many non-believers that will pose this question because not to many people think about it. However, they will ask other questions and the better prepared you are to answer the more likely it is that they will be willing to open their heart to God.
In regards to that last post: If you believe only God can create something out of nothing than who created God? If you believe that he always existed or created himself than you have to be open to the idea that the universe always existed or created itself. Thomas J Ord and Jon D. Levenson are two of the Christian theologians who argue against the 'God created something out of nothing' idea.
Quick background: About a year and a half ago I met a very solid Christian female. I was Catholic before we started talking and I had alot of kinks that needed to be worked out in my spiritual life. For reasons I won't mention I felt like God hated me. Anyways, she saved me, we became best friends and then shortly after we started dating.
This was the first true Christian female I've ever dated. She was compassionate and understanding yet she was firm in her faith to the point that God worked through her to make me a better man.
Well, she told me I was everything she wanted in a husband, but she had to pray to God to see if it was right.
I went on a mission trip and when I came back she told me that she had fasted and for the first 5 days had gotten a yes, but the last 2 days had been no.
So we (more so her than me) decided that we should stop dating.
This left me confused and very hurt. I'm over the hurt, but I am still a little confused. I'm sure there are a plenty of bible passages that explain why God would do something like this etc but that is not my question. Ladies my question is simply: Is this the proper way to find a husband?
Like I said this was my only Christian relationship so I have nothing to base it on. Thank you
Im sorry if you think my question is pointless. Perhaps I worded it wrong. Also, sorry for the late post. I went to New Jersey this week-end and just got back.
I understand what you are saying, but I disagree. My point was not so much to make a rational argument as much as it was to prove there is no rational argument. Many non-believers are rational people and as you mentioned may only believe by seeing. However, God works through each and everyone of us. By becoming educated and being able to relate to non-believers we can upgrade the seeds we are planting and make it easier for God to grow inside of the person.
Too often I think as Christians we accept the fact that we are saved and think that a litte 'prayer' is all we can do and then it is up to God.
I wouldn't pray to get a good grade on a test. I study hard and prepare myself so when the test comes I ace it. God favors hard workers. The same can be said about realtionships with non-believers. I've had a few friends who were non-believers and through a lot of hard work I have been able to plant a seed. If I had not questioned my own beliefs and put myself in their shoes and asked myself questions they would have asked I would not have been succesful. Of course I could have just said, 'well I prayed for them; God must not be ready to work with them', but to me that would have been selling them short.
Again, I'm sorry if you think the question is pointless. Maybe someone reading this will latch on and thus a 'seed' will be planted.
So I really don't want to start my homework so I thought I would post something to fuel a little debate.
Before I start this I should explain a little bit about myself and my beliefs so that the context in which this is written will become clearer and thus easier to understand and debate.
I believe that the Bible is the word of God, but I do not read it word for word. I am a contexual reader; I am not trying to debate this fact, but simply explain it up front. Please do not back up your agrument with Scripture. To me this is pointless. Not just for the sake of this argument, but especially when you are explaining God to non-believers. If someone was trying to convert you to be Muslim would you listen to their rationale if they quoted the Kuran?
So my question of course is how do you make a rational argument that God exists?
You can't say faith because while this is a good argument it isn't rational. The very definition excludes it from being rational.
You cannot say that God has always been therefore he must exist. Why not? That is not rational. That is a belief that cannot be proven. You are basically saying that God created himself. If that isn't what your saying than who/what created God?
Some will point to miracles as rational evidence of God. Well, what is a miracle? Something that cannot be explained by natural causes.
My point in writing this is not to make anyone angry. It is simply to open up minds and get people thinking instead of blindly believing. My personal belief is that God wants us to questions things and to turn up rocks as this is a gratifying way to have a stronger relationship. Perhaps more importantly, by developing your faith and questioning perhaps even your own beliefs you will be able to connect with non-believers and help guide them towards Christianity which (or should) be one of the main goals of Christians. If you take nothing away please realize that quoting Scripture to non-believers is not very beneficial. On my mission trip last year I saw many people attempt to quote Scripture and the minute they did people stopped listening. To you and me it may be the word of God, but to others it is simply one of many books without meaning.
~ Julio
PS: I am a believer and regardless of whether or not there is a rational argument for God I will still believe in him and accept Christ as my savior.
I just wanted to start a new thread for any enlisted soldiers or officers in the Armed Forces that wanted to discuss how to continue being a faithful Christian while serving in the military.
A little background on me: I enlisted at the age of 17 and was deployed to Iraq at the age of 19. While I was in the Army I lost my walk with God and made many poor decisions.
I got accepted to the Prep School for West Point in '04 and will graduate from West Point this year. I branched Armor and plan of attending Ranger school once I am done with BOLC III. One of my main goals as an officer is to help soldiers become better rounded individuals and strengthen their relationship with God.
My sister is recently enlisted as MI and is currently in AIT. She is struggling with the same issues I dealt with: Alchohol, pre-marital sex and of course smoking.
I am happy to say I no longer indulge in those three vices, but I just wanted to open up a thread for anyone who is and would like to discuss it. Or anyone who has advice for how to stay faithful to God while serving in the Army.
well, we have one thing in common for sure: we both wrote our posts late and when we were tired!
I really like what your wrote and I totally understand the whole 'step dad' aspect.
When I was 19 I met this woman who had a 9 week old child. The father was a deadbeat and left the mother for another woman. I loved that child like she was my own daughter.
Long story short the mother and I ended up not working after 3 years. The child still calls me daddy and my father is actually taking care of her because the mother had a child with another man and cannot afford to take care of all of her children.
Technically Sydney is not my child, but she needs a father figure in her life and she needs someone who she can look up to and respect so my family takes care of her. She will never live with me because it would be impossible for me to take care of her with my chosen profession.
What is ironic though is that I have found more woman that are non-Christians that are more understanding and willing to accept this fact than women who proclaim to be Christian. Also, woman that have children are less willing to engage in conversation because they are looking for a husband for their children and not looking to be a mother of someone else's child.
I was adopted from Guatemala and my two sisters were adopted from India. I was raised in a single parent house and my father adopted us while he was in a wheel chair so I have a much different perspective on what family is than most people. In my opinion we are all God's children and if you meet someone that you really connect with you should not be put of by the fact that they have a child. I do not consider having a child out of wedlock a mistake or unfortunate. I am of course not endorsing it, but one of the key attributes that makes us human is compassion.
Well, through experience I have come to realize that the best relationships exclude sex and focus on the other aspects of life. Too often humans get wrapped up in the physical beauty of life, myself included.
In my last relationship my girlfriend and I never kissed and although we ended up breaking up it was the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. We learned so much about each other that we became best friends before we let our romantic interests guide our relationship in another direction.
I believe 'men of honor' do still exist however I think you will be hard pressed to find them on a free Christian dating webiste. That is not to say that they do not exist, but simply that you must be patient.
Everyone has a different reason for why they are on this website, but perhaps not all reasons are pure.
