I'm starting part two of this topic because the first part has moved to page 2. this topic is based on I Corinthinas chpater 7, wherein Paul give us the principles of marriage, being single, widows, divorce, and SEX.
Shep, I read your comments and as GJ and I both knew your point, you are one of those guys who feel that you can't be in a relationship without sex, because it is a natural and it satisfies your fleshy needs and desires. Well, isn't that what sin does?
Paul tell us in Romasn chpater 8. that once we have been truly been born again and converted, we are no longer in debt to satsifythe lusts our flesh, but we are in debt to satisfy and be pleasing to God through te obeying of the leadership of the Holy Spirit, who lives inside of us. That is of course, IF YOU ARE TRULY, or INDEED as Paul writes saved. You should example yourself to see if you are indeed in Christ and have been converted.
Please take 30 minutes out and read Romans chpaters 5-8, and be enlightened, in what God has to say about sin and satisfying the lust thereof...
Many women beleive the lie, and drink the kool-aid from men who believe as you do, that sex is natural outside of a relationship, and a man must have his needs met.
I have often wondered, why it is that a man thinks like this, because if it only takes 5 minutes to be staisfied and have his needs met, what's his purpose, because he is still unfulfilled emotionally after sex for life.aaaannnnnd?:ribbit::goofball::excited:
I think Leon is the one who said, what Paul has written is not just for the young, but its also for the middle aged and the old aged.
And this is the pont I am making, God's word is for all ages. The passages of scriture you quoted has not one thing to do with I Corinthinas chapter 7, you're only trying to justify your own personal believes that sex outside of marriage of okay. God's word say flee, RUN away from fornication, becasue it is a dangerous deed not only to the fleah(body) but the consequences are great. This is why many women and men can't disconnect themsleves when a relationship is over, they have connected what God has created to happen between two people as a couple, and joined into a covenant as one, and are not married.
Sin is always fun and enjoyable, that;s why we ALL stayed sinners for so long. But if you say you are a born again believer in jesus Christ, the sins of your past should no longer have control over you, but as Paul says, you should have self-control over them, And if God says itcan be done thorugh the pwoer of the Holy Spirit then it can be done... that is if you have surrendered totally to the Holy Spirit, and been converted from inside out. There is no longer a desire for those thing that once had you in bondage to sin.
If you say no sex before marriage, then what exactly is your definition of marriage? Is this your basis for bashing all Christian men in the OP.
1 Cor 7 says marriage is for sexual temptations. I really don't understand what you expect. If a man has the GIFT of self control (celibacy) why would he need to marry?
The bible does define marriage or give any magic ceremony or words. All marriage traditions are traditions of man not God. the law says God's covenant people are to marry only within God's covenant people. it is written, "she is your companion And your wife by covenant." A covenant wife is one of God's chosen people. It is not a contract with someone to add prenuptial clauses.
@shep- But the Bible does say that Christians ought to submit to government authorities... which would imply that we would submit to how the government as defined a legal marriage b/w a man and woman.
Romans 13:1-5
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
Shep, if what the word of God is saying is bashibng Christian men about sex... then I would have to say if you think this, then maybe you're not a christian man, because such a thought would seem to come from a man who is not a Christian rather than from a man who profess and confesses Christ as His Lord and Savior.
A Christian man would understand and know that what God says is final, and he would do his very best to make, as Dennis says, make the change and fit it, by asking God for his help to overcome his exual lusts.
Then again, you also find in this passage that Paul says this is how you fit it, instead of burning with sexual lust or passion, Paul teaches that what you SHOULD do is to MARRY... That's how you fix it if you have sexual desires, and no self-control.
Another thing, I know you're not saying that marriage is man's tradition and God never insituted marriage, and that it is not biblical?? I know this is not what you're saying, ARE YOU?.... Can't be!
Otherwise if this is what you're saying, then you're not READING, even the passage I posted from I Corinthians chapter 7. LET THEM MARRY... where would Paul get this from if marriage is not of God? And I would question whether or not you are a real Christian,and even seek to be converted.
Marraige was insituted by God when He joined Adam and Eve together. It is an intimate personal union between a man and a woman as God established, and its of God, by God, of His WORD not man's.
When is the last time you read Genesis chapter 4, about the first marriage, and then Jesus speaks about marriage in Matthew chapter 19. And Paul speak about the marriage being symbolic of the church in Ephesians chapter5.
I could go on, but first where on earth did you come up with the idea that marriage is something man started? Throughout the Bible God speaks abut marriage between a man and a woman, and the purpose of the two KNOWING( personal intimacy as in sexually knowing each other in marriage). marriage does covenant a man and a woman togethr the same as sex... when a man has joined himself to a woman who is not his wife, they have become ONE.
And as I said this is why relationships in dating causes pain for either the man or the woman when it doesn't work out. You've joined together in a holy relationship sexually, which should not have been done, and now one of the other man or woman find it difficult to move on when the realtionship is over.
Dennis, I will get to the divorce part of this passage as soon as we can get Shep out of having sex before he gets married:ROFL:
God created Sex to be exclusive between a man and a woman who are joined together in marriage husband and his wife. It is to be exclusive in commitmente with all the trimmings to be shared with each other, just as Paul pints out. READ the passage that I have psoted if you can find the time to read it in your Bible. And the only thing I'm bashing is SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE BECASUE ITS SIN ACCORDING TO WHAT GOD HAS TO SAY! ITS ALL IN THE BOOK...:dancingp:
And Jesus answered and said, Have you not heard that God who made them in the beginning, made themmale and female, and said, For this cause will a man leave his father and his mother, and will cleave(join) himself to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together let no man separate.
On Being single and deciding not to marry or to marry, this is what Jesus says;
Verses11-12:
All men cannot receive(accept) this saying, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born like(without sexual desires) this from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who are made eunuchs(castrated) by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs(vowed to remain cycleebucy) for the kingdom of heaven sake, the man who is able to accept this, let him accept it.
In other words what Jesu is saying , some men are called to be married, some men make the choice to not to marry, and some men make the choice not to marry because of their religious status. But in order to preventsexual immorality such as adultery and fonication, its best men/women to marry.
OK, let me understand. Some people are more gifted (sexually) and do not need to marry. And others need to marry, they lack self control and become emotionally and sexually needy.
I would think that the ones who are "are more gifted (sexually)" are the ones who have had a lifetime of becoming acquainted intimately with one person (in marriage)... of learning every facet of each other's bodies and practicing the art of playing one another over and over and over again... =)
No, no, no. What Jesus and Paul are saying is that there are some men and women who are gifted with more sexual desires than others, these are they who should get married because they are unable to accept(handle) going without sex,therefore, it is best they marry as not to fornicate.
There are some men and women who have sexual desires but they are able to conrtol these desires, because they have allow the Holy Spirit to produce the furit of self control within them. Some are born with no sexual desires, because they have been called by God into the mnistry of singleness, not to marry or have these desires.
Every person is given a gift (measure) of sexual desires by God, as Paul states in I Corinthians chapter 7, and this is what Hesus is speaking about, some can accept to be or not to be...
