If you think John 3:16 communicates God�s love for the world, you are exactly right. But if you think the verse intends to communicate how much God loves the world, you have missed the meaning of the original Greek text. Although many translations say, �For God so love the world,� the intended meaning of the original language of John 3:16 really focuses on HOW God loves the world. That�s why when you read John 3:16 in the HCSB, it states, �For God love the world in this way...� Accuracy, another reason you will love the HCSB.
��For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.� -John 3:16
James it matters not how you try to change the order or proclamation the message is the same, whosoever believes on the lord Jesus will be saved, there is no misunderstanding, this verse alone, the word of God will not return unto the lord void, if whosoever will act on this verse and call upon the lord he is then born again.
No matter how you look at it, God loved the world [mankind] so much that He gave His son [His life, His blood that purchases], whoever, anyone, that believes in Him, and they will have everlasting life. There is not one part of this verse that says God only loved the 'elect', so that only the 'elect' that believe in Him will have everlasting life. Christ' blood was not limited. It was shed for all. The only way you can misunderstand John 3:16 is if you misapply it.
Saved you add to it as some do and that is exactly what happens when you say it does not apply to all. The condition to this verse as is any other scripture is man do his part, and of course no one is even implying that any man or woman saves themselves, they are just receiving eternal life the way the father instructed man to do.
In his sovereignty he said: jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
All the power need is within the seed to bring any one from death to life.
As a matter of fact any scripture that stirs man to reach out to the lord of a sincere heart will bring eternal life.
"SO LOVED the world means that God craed so much about the salvation of redeeming mankind back to Himself that He made a desicion to GIVE the only things that was very dear to Him to prove HOW MUCH HE LOVED THE world He created...
John Calvin himself says this in his OWN semons which to me DOES NOT sound nothing like what these OTHER writers are SAYING John Calvin taught. As I have always said on this forum, John Calvin DID NOT teach much of what many of these people are saying he taught, these people are trying to INTERPRET what John Calvin wrote, and are adding their OWN interpretations to his writings.
In order to know what Calvin really wrote, you must go and read for yourself what John Calvin has written in his writings BEFORE others got a hold of them and changed and mis-interpreted much of what he wrote... I report, you decide...:laugh:
3) That, then, is how our Lord Jesus bore the sins and iniquities of many. But in fact, this word “many” is often as good as equivalent to “all”. And indeed, our Lord Jesus was offered to all the world. For it is not speaking of three or four when it says: ‘For God so loved the world, that he spared not His only Son.” But yet we must notice that the Evangelist adds in this passage: “That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but obtain eternal life.” Our Lord Jesus suffered for all, and there is neither great nor small who is not inexcusable today, for we can obtain salvation through him. Calvin, Sermons on Isaiah’s Prophecy of the Death and Passion of Christ, Sermon 7, Isa., 53:12, p., 141.
4) So let us learn (following what I have already mentioned) to know in everything and by everything the inestimable goodness of our God. For as He declared His love toward mankind when He spared not His Only Son but delivered Him to death for sinners, also He declares a love which He bears especially toward us when by His Holy Spirit He touches us by the knowledge of our sins and He makes us wail and draws us to Himself with repentance. Calvin, Sermons on the Deity of Christ, Sermon 6, Matt 26:67-27:10, p, 108.
IN John Calvins OWN WORDS His Commentary on John Chapter 3:verses 16-17... which sound nuttin like wht you have posted James, by this dude what's is name forgot his name lol... anyway read what John Calvin say abotu John 3:16. Again, I report... you decide:glow:
1) “For God so loved the world.” Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish. And this order ought to be carefully observed; for such is the wicked ambition which belongs to our nature, that when the question relates to the origin of our salvation, we quickly form diabolical imaginations about our own merits. Accordingly, we imagine that God is reconciled to us, because he has reckoned us worthy that he should look upon us. But Scripture everywhere extols his pure and unmingled mercy, which sets aside all merits.
And the words of Christ mean nothing else, when he declares the cause to be in the love of God. For if we wish to ascend higher, the Spirit shuts the door by the mouth of Paul, when he informs us that this love was founded on the purpose of his will, (Ephesians 1:5.) And, indeed, it is very evident that Christ spoke in this manner, in order to draw away men from the contemplation of themselves to look at the mercy of God alone. Nor does he say that God was moved to deliver us, because he perceived in us something that was worthy of so excellent a blessing, but ascribes the glory of our deliverance entirely to his love. And this is still more clear from what follows; for he adds, that God gave his Son to men, that they may not perish. Hence it follows that, until Christ bestow his aid in rescuing the lost, all are destined to eternal destruction. This is also demonstrated by Paul from a consideration of the time; for he loved us while we were still enemies by sin, (Romans 5:8, 10.)
This mode of expression, however, may appear to be at variance with many passages of Scripture, which lay in Christ the first foundation of the love of God to us, and show that out of him we are hated by God. But we ought to remember–what I have already stated–that the secret love with which the Heavenly Father loved us in himself is higher than all other causes; but that the grace which he wishes to be made known to us, and by which we are excited to the hope of salvation, commences with the reconciliation which was procured through Christ. For since he necessarily hates sin, how shall we believe that we are loved by him, until atonement has been made for those sins on account of which he is justly offended at us? Thus, the love of Christ must intervene for the purpose of reconciling God to us, before we have any experience of his fatherly kindness. But as we are first informed that God, because he loved us, gave his Son to die for us, so it is immediately added, that it is Christ alone on whom, strictly speaking, faith ought to look.
…This, he says, is the proper look of faith, to be fixed on Christ, in whom it beholds the breast of God filled with love: this is a firm and enduring support, to rely on the death of Christ as the only pledge of that love. The word only-begotten is emphatic, to magnify the fervor of the love of God towards us. For as men are not easily convinced that God loves them, in order to remove all doubt, he has expressly stated that we are so very dear to God that, on our account, he did not even spare his only-begotten Son. Since, therefore, God has most abundantly testified his love towards us, whoever is not satisfied with this testimony, and still remains in doubt, offers a high insult to Christ, as if he had been an ordinary man given up at random to death…
“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish…” And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled [Latin, propitium: propitious, merciful, favourable] to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.
Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still faith is not common to all. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith..
[verse 17.] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world. It is a confirmation of the preceding statement; for it was not in vain that God sent his own Son to us. He came not to destroy; and therefore it follows, that it is the peculiar office of the Son of God, that all who believe may obtain salvation by him. There is now no reason why any man should be in a state of hesitation, or of distressing anxiety, as to the manner in which he may escape death, when we believe that it was the purpose of God that Christ should deliver us from it. The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded, if he only keep the road of faith. The word judge (prino) is here put for condemn, as in many other passages. When he declares that he did not come to condemn the world, he thus points out the actual design of his coming; for what need was there that Christ should come to destroy us who were utterly ruined? We ought not, therefore, to look at any thing else in Christ, than that God, out of his boundless goodness chose to extend his aid for saving us who were lost; and whenever our sins press us–whenever Satan would drive us to despair–we ought to hold out this shield, that God is unwilling that we should be overwhelmed with everlasting destruction, because he has appointed his Son to be the salvation of the world. When Christ says, in other passages, that he is come to judgment, (John 9:39;) when he is called a stone of offense, (1 Peter 2:7;) when he is said to be set for the destruction of many, (Luke 2:34:) this may be regarded as accidental, or as arising from a different cause; for they who reject the grace offered in him deserve to find him the Judge and Avenger of contempt so unworthy and base. A striking instance of this may be seen in the Gospel; for though it is strictly the power of God for salvation to every one who believeth, (Romans 1:16,) the ingratitude of many causes it to become to them death.. Both have been well expressed by Paul, when he boasts of having vengeance at hand, by which he will punish all the adversaries of his doctrine after that the obedience of the godly shall have been fulfilled, (2 Corinthians 10:6) The meaning amounts to this, that the Gospel is especially, and in the first instance, appointed for believers, that it may be salvation to them; but that afterwards believers will not escape unpunished who, despising the grace of Christ, chose to have him as the Author of death rather than of life. Calvin, Commentary on John 3:16-17.
John Calvin and Calvinism says that Christ Died for
�ALL MANKIND� in General�but Specifically for The Elect.
In other words that His Sacrifice was SUFFICIENT for All mankind to be Saved�but�Wait for it�wait for it�It Is ONLY (Specifically) FOR THE ELECT.
There are websites that will show you Calvin�s Sermon (I think there are 36 that are Recorded) that �sound� harmless and quite �Mainstream��such as http://calvinandcalvinism.wordpress.com/2007/08/29/john-calvin-on-john-316/
Ella,
(you wrote) ��As I have always said on this forum, John Calvin DID NOT teach much of what many of these people are saying he taught, these people are trying to INTERPRET what John Calvin wrote, and are adding their OWN interpretations to his writings.� (end)
Did you read the WHOLE Page of Calvin's Sermon on John 3:16?
Have you Read any of Calvin's other sermons?
(John Calvin) ��Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still FAITH IS NOT COMMON TO ALL. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, BUT THE ELECT ALONE ARE THEY WHO�S EYES GOD OPENS, that they may seek him by faith. Here, too, is displayed a wonderful effect of faith; for by it we receive Christ such as he is given to us by the Father ���
�...that we live, because God loves us freely by not imputing to us our sins� (end)
��but THE ELECT ALONE are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith.�
This is in that same Sermon on John 3:16 given by Calvin.
Here is another of Calvin�s Sermons where Calvin is
speaking of the love of John 3:16 as a General Love, to be distinguished from his Special Electing Love:
(John Calvin) It is true that Saint John says generally, that he loved the world. And why? For Jesus Christ offers himself GENERALLY to all men without exception to be their redeemer. (end)
I capitalized the word GENERALLY for emphasis�but it is as Calvin used it.
(John Calvin) It is said afterward in the covenant, that God loved the world when he sent his only son: but he loved us, us (I say) which have been taught by his Gospel, because he gathered us to him. (end)
Of Course Calvin is speaking of himself and all of The Elect when he says�us (I say).
(John Calvin) And the faithful that are enlightened by the holy Ghost, have yet a third use of God's love, in that he reveals himself more familiarly to them, and seals up his fatherly adoption by his holy Spirit, and engraves it upon their hearts. Now then, let us in all cases learn to know this love of God, & when we be once come to it, let us go no further.
Thus we see three degrees of the love of God as shown us in our Lord Jesus Christ. The first is in respect of the redemption that was purchased in the person of him that gave himself to death for us, and became accursed to reconcile us to God his father. That is the first degree of love, which extends to all men, inasmuch as Jesus Christ reaches out his arms to call and allure all men both great and small, and to win them to him.
But there is a special love for those to whom the gospel is preached: (end)
This��Special Love� (isn�t that Special) that Calvin speaks of is One that is Preached to Only The Elect
(John Calvin) which is that God testifies unto them that he will make them partakers of that benefit that was purchased for them by the death and passion of his son.
And for as much as we be of that number, (end)
��as we be of that NUMBER,�� Again Calvin is Speaking of The Elect!
(Jogn Calvin) therefore are we are double bound already to our God: here are two bonds which hold us as it were straightened unto him. Now let us come to the third bond, which depends upon the third love that God shows us: which is, that he not only causes the gospel to be preached unto us, (end)
God CAUSES�CAUSES! The Gospel is PREACHED to The Elect because God CAUSES it to Happen!
(John Calvin) but also makes us to feel the power thereof, not doubting but that our sins are forgiven us for our Lord Jesus Christ's sake... Calvin, Sermons on Deuteronomy, Sermon, 28, 4:36-27, p., 167.
Ella,
Once again I must ask you�are you a Calvinist? The reason I ask is because you seem Bent on Proving that Calvin is Simply a Victim here and not the CAUSE of MILLIONS of Christians being Led ASTRAY.
The dark one does not try to �Feed us� Whole Lies. He Poisons us by �Feeding� us Half-Lies concealed inside a �Half-truth��which is wrapped up by a truth.
Calvin�s Lies are so Insidious. They are so Clever. They are so Elegant. They are meant to Deceive the Small and Weak Minded�the �Proud� and �Self-Deluded�.
Ella,
While the Exact Wording of The Five Points may not have come from Calvin�s Pen�it is most Certainly his Theology. Having been Greatly Influenced by the Augustinian tradition, which led him to expound the Doctrine of Predestination and the Absolute Sovereignty of God in Salvation of the Human Soul from Death and Eternal Damnation.
