Thread: PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Admin
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 22 Apr, 2018 07:17 AM
GNWS, since you like Andy Zoppelt's writings and QUOTE what he has to say about the CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURES... I'm sure YOU should get a joy of enlightenment out of this article he has writtten: EXCERPTS FROM ARTICLE ... PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Part 1: Head Covering - Introduction -There has been a rapid move away from the requirement to use head covering and the silencing of women in services because God Himself has taken the initiative in many third world nations. He is not asking for our permission, He is demonstrating His will in these matters if we are open to it. Many women in those nations are being sent out and are raising up new assemblies� what we call apostolic work.
More saints are finding they can do the research into the original language and background and are no longer bound to what previous biased translators wanted us to believe. The internet has become a vast source of information.
The head covering issue mentioned in 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 is a highly controversial and is a complex one in the body of Christ today as it was in the early believers at Corinth.
Old practices are hard to change and old wine skins are hard to throw away. The Head covering issue along with women being silent in the church and women not being permitted to teach are such teachings. These teachings have had an enormous impact on the function and liberty of Jesus� body. The silencing and stopping over half of the body would have a major effect on the ministry throughout the world. Those who believe in such teachings are of a very small minority, so the effect has been minimal. . In the institutional church, Satan has silenced both men and women for the sake of one man --- the pastor.
I have researched this issue off and on for the past 40 plus years; and more consistently in the past 10 years.
At one time I preached on the silencing of women and their role in teaching. Whenever we had a woman teach other women, we always had an elder present to oversee the teaching. When a friend I knew ordained a woman as an elder, I broke fellowship. I just trusted the translators of our scriptures. Later, I became suspicious when I heard of the women throughout the world healing the sick and raising up churches and teaching. I was already becoming more aware of the bias of the translators in using words like �church,� �baptism� and the creating of an ecclesiastical hierarchy in their translation. They knew: no building, no bishop; no king.
I have also struggled with the placing of something on a woman�s head to establish some unknown spiritual point for her and the angels? It seemed so unlike scriptures to do this, since scripture dealt more with the inner man rather than outward ritual. It was the religious who tended to focus on outward ritual.
Though the outward practices such as circumcision, the feasts and the sabbaths were discontinued under the new covenant, there were countless others who continued to try to persuade the body of Christ to practice them --- even to this day..
There are those today who are convinced that a woman wearing a veil on her head is a biblical mandate. If such was an apostolic mandate, why was such an apostolic tradition so silent in all the epistles, if in fact it was foundational in all the churches?
I am convinced that the groups who fall into this category are the most sincere. The seek purity in obedience to the scriptures. Their research into these scriptures becomes tainted and they keep reading into what they already believe. If the historical setting is revealed that points to these �suspect� scriptures, they ignore them. They ignore the translator�s bias and alternate readings.
Head covering, women silence in the assembly and keeping women out of ministry is for them a three stranded cord. Once they fall for one, they are forced to except the others.
Lately, with the advancement of computers, the internet and bible programs, we are all able to better understanding these suspect Greek words and there usage for ourselves. We are no longer bound to man�s interpretation and translations.
In all honesty, I have had to ask myself the question: �is the evidence compelling for a woman to have a head covering other than her God-given hair?� The answer was an overwhelming no!
We all understand the if we understood the question Paul was addressing, we would have a better understanding of Paul�s answer in 1 Corinthians 11, 14 and 1 Timothy 2. In these letters we have an answer without a question.
READ MORE @ https://www.therealchurch.com/articles/women_in_the_church_head_covering.html
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 22 Apr, 2018 07:29 AM
EXCERPT: Part 2: Should A Woman Be Silent In The Assembly? BY ANDY ZOPPELT
1 Corinthians 14 problems - One of the problems we have in reading Paul�s letter to the Corinthians is that we are only getting one half of the conversation; we know nothing of the question he is answering. It is like listening to someone talking on the phone and trying to discern the conversation of the other person. This can pose a serious dilemma for the honest saint who wants to obey God�s word. We hear, loud and clear, Paul�s answers, but we have no idea of the question. If we understood the question, the answer would make much more sense. Again we are dealing with bias.
Let�s now turn to 1Cor 14:34-38, and I am going to add wives and see if it will make a difference. �34 Let your women [wives] keep silent in the churches, for they [wives] are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they [wives] want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home [only wives have husbands]; for it is shameful for women [the wife] to speak in church. 36 Or [What!] did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet [women prophets] or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.� NKJV.
The Greek word for husband or man is "aner," and the Greek word for wife or woman is "gune." The context will tell us to which is being referred to.
There is a fundamental rule in lexicography that says, "A word should be translated by its most common usage unless there are clear and compelling reasons not to." Paul's most common usage of "aner" and "gune" is in reference to husband and wife, and they are so translated most often.
Ignoring the point of the woman�s head covering which I cover in another article for the moment; but let us look at it from the point of the issue of wives and husbands praying and prophesying while uncovered and covered. There was never an issue of a woman�s silence in prophesying in these scriptures. It is clear that these wives were not silent! She could both pray or prophecy!
We must ask and answer one simple question to understand this passage: Where did men and women or husbands and wives pray and prophesy in the reference to this passage? In the assembly is the obvious answer.
So can it be that Paul is dealing with a husband and wife situation here also in 1 Corinthians 14 instead of just women in general? Yes!
�Let your wives keep silent in the churches� Silence in reference to what?
A little side issue here, the word �church� is a poor translation of ekklesia, it is another one of those biases of the translators� no church building, no bishop, no bishop no king with authority over Christians.
So is Paul eliminating or silencing one half of the body in the function of the assembly (ekklesia)? If that is the case, we don�t need women in the assembly, and the whole of 1 Corinthians 12 must therefore be dealing with men only� and that is not true. We have dealt with women in the ministry in both the old and New Testament. We have dealt with the gifts of the Spirit. We have dealt with women being used today in the assembly. So now are we saying that the bible and Paul are denying the voice of women?
The word �silence� is used in three places in chapter 14 within limited bounds. Example: in the issue of speaking in tongue without an interpretation, the one who speaks in tongues is to be silent only if the speaking is not followed by an interpretation. Second, �if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.� And the third is speaking of women or wives being silent. It is clear that each rule of silence is coupled with a condition in order to maintain the meeting run �decently and in order.� None of the silent rules are meant to silent the person completely.
The Greek verb sigao, which means "to be silent, or quiet, or to hold one's peace which means a "voluntary silence." It was used to describe Jesus' silence when He stood before Pilate (Mark 14:61) and the silence of the apostles and elders at the Jerusalem Council as Paul and Barnabas reported the reception the gospel received among the Gentiles (Acts 15:12).
In verses 34 and 35, wives are to be (voluntarily) silent in reference to asking there husbands questions during the meetings. They are to wait till they get home so not to create a bunch of talking during the meeting. Is this something we see today: husbands and wives talking to each other during the meeting? Questions that disturb the meeting are not part of the gifts of the spirit in a meeting and can wait.
In view of all the instructions which Paul gives concerning the function of the whole body, it is impossible for me to reach any other conclusion from I Corinthians 14:34-35 than that this silence involved only husbands and wives and the wives asking their husbands questions during the gathering. If not, then we need clarification of Chapter 12, Eph 4, Romans 12, etc� concerning body ministry being a �men only� ministry in the assembly.
"For it is not permitted for them to speak." The Greek word for speak here is "laleo." Since this Greek word may also include the idea of babbling, prattling, chattering, etc., it could easily and logically prohibit wives from babbling and chattering in the assembly to their husbands.
The male bias of the King James Version translators comes brazenly through when they render it "for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience." Hupotassomai means nothing of the sort. It is exactly the same word Paul uses two verses earlier when he writes, "and the spirits of the prophets are subject to prophets" (v.32, KJV). And it is the same word Paul uses when he counsels all the believers, male and female, to "be subject to one another in the fear of Christ" (Eph. 5:21, NASB).
These wives were not exercising silence and restraint and thus causing confusion; similar to a baby crying in the middle of someone giving an important word to the assembly. And so, Paul says, "Let the women (wives; gune - wives who are asking their husbands questions in the meeting) keep silent in the churches. For it is not permitted for them to speak (in asking question), but to be in subjection as also says the law. And if they would learn anything (from asking), let them ask (the question) their own husbands at home" (I Corinthians 14:34-35).
We know Paul is not limiting wives to only learning at home and by asking their husbands, because we know they can learn in many ways in the meeting. Therefore this silence rule is referring to the limited learning through the asking questions during the meeting with their own husbands.
The translators made the correct translation of "aner" (ask their own husband) and left no doubt which group of women was to be silent. The translators would have had a very hard time using men. We would then have women who are not married with �their own man.� Who wants to be so brave to make that statement? If we do so, then we would be agreeing with women living with men and not being married. The women living with men are wives!!!
These verses are clear that they are instructing wives and not women! Not widows, but wives! Not divorcees, but wives! Not unmarried women or maidens, but wives were to hold their peace and ask, not men generally, but their " own" husbands at home.
The silent rule to all women and in every situation in the assembly is simply not consistent with the context of all the scriptures. The rest of the women would not be excluded from speaking, learning and asking questions, based on this command. No one can make the silent rule apply to all women and ignore the balance of the text or the context. The ones who were to be silent were those who had husbands at home and that silence related only to questions.
We often see a wife ask a question and then we find the husband disagreeing with his wife and we have a argument in the meeting.
The conclusion is quite clear, in spite of numerous mistranslations of "gune": these women were to ask "their own husbands at home." Only wives have husbands. Only wives are told to be silent here.
Paul is very clearly addressing a husband-wife problem here during the meeting and not a man-woman problem.
If we are going to be biblically dogmatic, then the wife couldn't even ask the question on the way home, she had to wait till she stepped in the door. So if we are going to be absolutist on part of this scripture, why not be an absolutist in all of it and impose a prohibition on asking questions on the way home?" Intellectual honesty will not allow us to have it both ways.
If we follow the "mute" theory, women are not permitted to speak at all in the ekklesia. Who will dare to speak for God on which exception will be allowed? Can the sing in with the assembly or pray with the assembly?
Why would anyone conclude that wives would be required to keep absolutely silent, except if they created disorder through babbling, thus creating confusion? It is in this kind of speech where they were to hold their peace, not in other ways as the Spirit might lead them. God forgive the men who are keeping the Spirit of God from ministering through women.
The silence instruction to her would be restricted to the subject of her interrogating her husband, and perhaps chattering or babbling. With 1 Cor 12 and 14 preceding v 34, women were a function part of the body through the gifts of the Holy Spirit and now we are to assume they are to be silent. Verse 34 must be in harmony with chapters 12 through 14.
Paul says, in I Corinthians 14:35, "If they would learn anything"; the Greek for learn is "manthano." It means to increase one's knowledge and frequently to learn by inquiry or observation. What, then, was the learning which led Paul to tell the wives to be silent about and not to speak about? It seems clear it was restricted only to those matters about which they made public inquiry of their husbands while the meeting was going on and to avoid confusion from a husband-wife confrontation in public worship.
1Co 14:34 �Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law.�
The phrase, �they are commanded� are words added by the translators and are not in the original text. Which is not uncommon for the translators to add to scriptures for the sake of their own bias.
"As Also Says the Law" I Corinthians 14:34 - So what was the law? Biblical law? Jewish law? Gentile law? Social law? What law?
I have never found a biblical law stating such. In fact, Paul doesn�t give us the law. The only time the scriptures even suggests subjection of women to men is in Genesis 3:16, "and your desire will be to your husband, and he shall rule over you." You notice it says � he will rule over you.� That is part of the curse between the husband and wife and not a part of the law. From that point on, men have used their physical power to dominate the women with the outcome of conflict for superiority and control� that is not a part of the blessing, but the curse. Now if you are an honest believer, you know we are no longer under the curse.
The reference to God in the Garden of Eden did not say men shall rule over women, but "your husband will rule over you" - over Eve, the wife of Adam. This was not a man-woman law, but a husband-wife curse. In fact, no Biblical text ever suggests that men generally are to have dominion over women. God approved just the opposite. Nor does it teach that women in general are to be in submission to men in general. Therefore, to generalize beyond the husband-wife relationship is to go beyond the law and the teachings of both the Old and New Testaments.
If the law really backs up the argument that God's original intent was that men generally were to have dominion over women generally, what are the exceptions? Who makes the exceptions?
May a heretic rule over a faithful Christian woman? Does a 14-year-old baptized boy rule over his 40-year-old mother, 60-year-old grandmother, or 80-year-old great-grandmother? Does God's law require Christian women to be in subjection to non-Christian men?
If the above are not Biblical absolutes, who will we empower to draw the lines?
Furthermore, no one really believes that all men are to have dominion over all women.
Furthermore the Genesis citations quoted by some (Gen. 1:26, 2:21, 3:16) has nothing to do with denying women the right to speak in the assembly, it is developing a principle that is not stated. The reason given in verse 34 that women � are not permitted to speak� directly relates to the phrase �just as the law also says.� So a case must be proven that such a law exists or we must explain why Paul used the phrase to back up the silence of the woman.
� just as the law also says,� contradicts Paul's known teachings that we have been liberated from the law (Rom. 3:28; 6:14, 7:16, 8:2; Gal 3:11, 13, 4:5, 5:18, etc.).
In the entire epistle of 1 Corinthians, whenever Paul quotes from and specially uses the term "law" (meaning written Scripture) he does so with specific intent, focus, and stylistic writing. For example, in 1 Cor. 9:8-9 Paul writes, � Does not the law also say the same? For it is written in the law of Moses: �You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.�� After referring to the law as saying something, Paul tells us that it is written and immediately quotes Deut 25:4 verbatim. Also in 1 Cor. 14:21 after Paul writes, � In the Law it is written� he immediately quotes from Isaiah 28:11-12. Again, in 1 Cor. 4:6 where Paul generally refers to Scripture he tells the Corinthians to learn through us the meaning of the saying "Do not go �beyond what is written." In every case when Paul specially refers to Scripture, he says � it is written� (1 Cor. 1:19, 1:31, 2:9, 3:19, 10:7, 15:45) and consistently quotes from the Old Testament to prove his point. Here only does he not back up his reference by giving the law, how would a Berean follow Paul�s instruction if they search the scriptures to see if what law Paul is referring to? �Where is the law Paul, I am a Berean, show me!� Why would Paul suddenly change his consistent writing style in this verse only? Why doesn't Paul even say � it is written� or even quote from the Old Testament so we have some idea what he is talking about as he has previously done in every instance throughout this epistle? Why? Either Paul was quoting a non-biblical source, such as a slogan or rabbinic saying or verses 34-35 represent an answer to a question that would justify an inconsistent verse with respect to the rest of his teachings. Possibility Paul was responding to a question and making a remark to which they would have a clear understanding. If not, then Paul was clearly inconsistent with his letters.
1 Cor 14:36-37, �Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?�
Was Paul rebuking them for a slogan or some oral law that many of the men used in controlling the women? If so he was rebuking them for their belief that they could develop a tradition without scriptural evidence.
The only record available for our consideration is that of the historical written text and writings of others. We often see the zealous Jews trying to bring in circumcision. Paul's immediate and strong rebuke beginning in verse 36 can be viewed as a correction to those men who held to the Oral Law of the Jews. Bibles have variously translated verse 36 as follows:
- What! Came the word of God out from you or came it unto you only? (KJV)
- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? (NIV)
- Do you think that the knowledge of God's word begins and ends with you Corinthians? Well, you are mistaken! (NLT)
READ MORE @ https://www.therealchurch.com/articles/women_in_the_church_should_a_woman_be_silent.html
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 22 Apr, 2018 07:41 AM
EXCERPT: "Women In The Church" By Andy Zoppel
Part 3: Can A Woman Teach? - The first Timothy 2 controversy. Paul in speaking to the gentiles said, �in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.� Eph 2:2-3, NKJV
We must remember that the gentiles did not have the law and His moral code. They lived their lives based on the standards of paganism, idol worship and cultic practices. The standards and practices of paganism was a major part of their lives. When many of the Ephesians came to Christ they brought in many of those paganistic and cultic practices. Why? Because for them, some of those practices made sense and many of those practices were well ingrained into their superstitions. For some, they were convinced these superstitions were right, good, and were beneficial and made them secure. In fact, for them, to go against many of these beliefs would leave them ill at ease and insecure. So many, who came out of these practice and were deeply evolved, came into the assemble, brining in many of these religious superstitions. Why do we think it would be otherwise? Don�t we see traditions, humanism, and our selfish ideas mixed with our beliefs today?
Therefore, when we read this letter addressed to Timothy, let us look for these influences of paganism and the cult of Artemis affecting and influencing the Ephesian assembly... because they are there and we can�t ignore it.
Anyone who has fully researched 1Timothy 2:18-15 would have to admit that these are difficult and controversial passage to say the least, unless one has a bias or bent. There are controversial because there are contradicting verses in them.
To try and understand this text without understanding the cultural, the biblical context and the letter that Paul received from Timothy, is a guarantee to miss its meaning all together. Of course we want to be literal in our reading of scriptures, but in some of these passages we will find contradictor statements that Paul has shared in other places.
Let�s look at a few: �And Adam was not deceived [Is this true?], but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.� Nowhere do we find Paul stating that Adam was not deceived, not in the whole bible. We know that Adam did sin and was deceived contrary to the literal text made here by Paul. In fact. the sin of Adam, and not Eve, is placed on all of mankind. Any casual reader of Paul�s letter knows this; I don�t feel the need to give all the scriptures to back this up.
�Nevertheless she (the woman) will be saved in childbearing if they (they women) continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.� We know that women are not saved through childbirth but through faith. I don�t know of anyone who applies these verses literally to women. We will deal with these verses later.
Timothy was having problems in the community of believers at Ephesus. Paul left Timothy behind at Ephesus to deal with false teachers (men and women) who were disrupting the harmony of the assembly there.
"As I urged you [Timothy] when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus [Why?] so that you may command certain ones (tisin � both men and women) not to teach false doctrines (men and women had to be teaching false doctrine) any longer nor to devote themselves to myths [What myths were they devoting themselves? Greek myths?] and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work..." 1 Timothy 1:3-4
Paul enumerates the general problems at Ephesus: false teaching, myths, endless genealogies.
Paul said, �Some [tis - both men and women] have wandered away from these (a pure heart, a good conscience, and faith) and turned to meaningless talk. They [men and women] want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm." 1 Tim 1:6-7,
Obviously this was a male and female teaching problem that needed correction. Both males and females were teaching and desiring to teach.
Paul is writing about some of these men and women who want to teach, but don�t have the foggiest idea of what they are teaching. They are mixing myths, endless genealogies and false understandings of the law. Paul was not against women teaching; he was against the content of some of their teaching... as well as the men also. This is what we will find in this letter.
Paul and Timothy were very close in their relationship. Paul addresses Timothy like a son; Timothy was very well-informed of Paul�s teachings and traditions and the way Paul set up the local assemblies. �For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every assembly.� 1 Cor 4:16-17,
Timothy knew of Paul�s �ways in Christ� and he knew what Paul taught �everywhere in every assembly.�
In Paul�s letter to Timothy, Timothy finds himself in Ephesus confronted with some unique problems which he sought Paul�s help.
Therefore if women were not permitted to teach and were to be silent, Timothy would only have had to be reminded by Paul: Paul often reminded others by saying: �You know,� or �Do you not know?� or �According to the traditions which I delivered to you.�
The personal letter to Timothy is nothing like Paul�s letter to the Romans. The letter to the Romans dealt with the traditions of salvation, body ministry, the law, and walking in the Spirit, etc.. Here Paul is responding to a letter concerning problems in the Christian community and we are only getting one-sided information. Reading a letter that is in response to another letter can have many difficulties to say the least� at this point, caution should prevail and other scriptures should be brought in to add clarity when we see this kind of difficulty.
Somehow Timothy did not have this understanding for obvious reasons� it was not a teaching that Paul left � everywhere in every assembly.�
The problems we are having with the woman issues here can be directly attributed to the bias of the male translators and leaders. Their translator�s bias comes loud and clear when they use different translations for the same Greek word pertaining to both men and women. The word Paul uses for �peaceful� for men in verse 2 is the same word used in verse 11 for �silence� for women. That in itself should arouse the honest Berean and cause one to take as second look and question why. The word Greek diakonos is translated for a man as deacon, but for a woman it is translated servant. The only difference is that one is the male form of the word and the other is the female form of the word.
� Peaceable,� in referring to men deals with the heart or attitude and not silence as used for women. Would we recommend that men be silent? There is a big difference between being silent and being peaceable.
In Ephesus, men were getting angry and therefore they should have a peaceful attitude and not an angry one. Women were teaching false doctrine and trying to use their doctrine to dominate (seduce) the men and they also were told to have a peaceable attitude.
�In like manner [in like manner to what? To the men having there problems!] also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.�
1 Timothy 2:8-10 - Where were these women getting their ideas of dress? Could it be they were getting it from the same source they were getting their teaching? What made them think such dress was acceptable? Would you not agree they got it from the worldly women of Ephesus like we see some of our women in the assembly today? Can we not honestly admit that Paul is challenging some of the trans-cultural practices in the assembly of what we often see today? We must look at the culture of Ephesus if we are going to understand what created such a stir in the first place. We just can�t read scripture and ignore the culture and practices that obviously have influenced the assembly. Timothy found himself in many unique situations and without answers� hence his letter to necessitate and incorporate Paul�s help.
Now let us go on, but let us consider that we are hearing only Paul�s side and he is dealing with issues that are foreign to Timothy. Paul is addressing the unique situations Timothy is running into that are related to the unique trans-cultural practices of the women in Ephesus. If we ignore the Ephesian culture, we are missing the origin of the problem.
�Let a woman learn in silence [let�s use peaceably] with all submission [subjection is a better word. Subjection to what? To the whole community of course. Certainly not to men! We are all subjected to the Lord only]. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over [Gr. authentein] a man, but to be in silence [peaceable in her attitude and not aggressive.].� v 11,12, NKJV
Is this a question of forbidding a woman to teach and having authority over the man? Teaching has nothing to do with authority. Anyone can disagree and challenge the teacher, teachers just don�t have authority. Does it follow then that a woman teaching gives her authority over the man? Unless we can come up with some other verse in the bible that forbids women to teach, we are left to deal with the many verses that deal with teaching in scriptures that clearly have no �male only� translation. Teaching is a grace gift and not an office of authority.
Paul is dealing with a man and woman issue and not an authority issue. Men had there anger and women were trying to dominate (or seduce) the men, acting on ones self-interest and deception from some source.
There are many ways to translate �authentein,� To �dominate,� �seduce,� murder�, etc.. For anyone, whether male or female, such teaching is forbidden. So let�s not read that there is some legitimate foundation for men having authority into this text and women are cutting into their rightful authority and hierarchy� though we men love hierarchy. Let us not also think that the women here are just taking the �rightful� authority away from the man. There is only one authority in the body of Christ, and that is Jesus.
If we males want to institute �male authority� within the body of Christ, then we all must be willing to submit ourselves to these men in authority� I have been there and done that� it is not God.
�have authority over� (v 12) - �And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over [authentein] a man, but to be in silence.� v 12, NKJV
We find two issues here: silencing the women and the subject of authority. In I Tim. 2:12, The King James Version �to usurp authority over� Strongs gives �authenteo (ow-then-teh'-o); from a compound of NT:846 and an obsolete hentes (a worker); to act of oneself, i.e. (figuratively) dominate:�
One who acts on oneself is to ignore the rest of the body of believers. There are countless pastors and leaders who act on their own authority within the body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:21 is clear, �the eye cannot say to the hand, �I have no need of you.�� In other words, the eye cannot act on itself in its relationship to the body. The woman cannot ignore her male counterpart and that is the problem here: acting on oneself. Today it is the men who say to the women �we have no need of you in our assemblies,� keep quit!
In another article I will be dealing with authority and the marriage.
Using Strongs definition it should read �I do not permit a woman to teach or to act out of self interest with a man.� It makes a lot more sense. Authentein is not one of the more common words dealing with authority or a right to authority. Historically it has had several meanings.
history; face the fact, we find God using women in every aspect of ministry.
Scripture makes it clear that because of such a lack of revelation and discernment of the body, many are sick and sleep among us. (1 Cor 11:30) The Gospel is the power of God and God with the Holy Spirit is working and that includes women. We can either be standing with or against God. We better be sure, I would not want to be standing against God and try to stop all the women whom He is anointing with the Holy Spirit. If God is not against women teaching, let us not permit our male bias to hinder the new wine which He is pouring out today.
READ MORE @ https://www.therealchurch.com/articles/women_in_the_church_can_a_woman_teach.html
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 22 Apr, 2018 10:28 AM
Ella's Quote:
GNWS... "Please explain what this passage means that you have quoted: 1 Corinthians 14:34 "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. ."
"Also what "LAW" IS IN REFERENCE HERE THAT PAUL SPEAKS OF?..."Corinthians 14:34,35: {NIV}**WOMEN** should remain silent in the churches, They are not allowed **TO SPEAK**, but must be in submission, as the *LAW* says. If they want to inquire about anything, they should ask their husbands at home; for it is **DISGRACEFUL** for a **WOMAN** **TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH**!!
Ella obviously challenging whether the law Paul is speaking of is OT Law or some law not in God's Word or **CHRIST'S LAW**.
Paul has stated about 14 times that we are no longer under the supervision of OT Law as per: Galatians 3:25: Paul was inspired by God to write: Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come we are **NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {OT} LAW**!
I Corinthians 9:21: Paul said, "I am not free from God's law but am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!"
Acts 22:14,15: Ananias said to Paul, "The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know **HIS WILL** and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from His mouth!! You will be **HIS WITNESS** to all people of what you have seen and heard!
Acts 20:27: Paul said, "For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the **WHOLE WILL OF GOD**!
God chose Paul to write 14 of the 27 books in the NT of **CHRIST'S LAW**! And God chose Paul to give the rules for teaching and preaching in the church by Elders, Overseers, Pastors and Teachers in I Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, I Corinthians 14 and Ephesians 4:11-24 and other places.
Some of these inspired writings include:
** WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY ABOUT THE PREACHING AND TEACHING OF MEN AND WOMEN IN THE CHURCH**??
Titus 1:6-9: An **ELDER** must be blameless, faithful to **HIS** wife, a **MAN** whose children believe... Since an **OVERSEER** manages God's household, **HE** must be blameless... **HE** must **HOLD FIRMLY** to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that **HE** can encourage others by **SOUND DOCTRINE and **REFUTE THOSE** WHO OPPOSE IT**.
I Timothy 5:17: The **ELDERS** who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of a double honor, especially those whose work is **PREACHING ** and **TEACHING**!
I Timothy 3:1 Whoever desires to be an **OVERSEER** desires a noble task. Now the **OVERSEER**is to be above reproach, faithful to **HIS** wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable and **ABLE TO TEACH**!!
I Timothy 2:11: A **WOMAN** should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a **WOMEN** **TO TEACH** or to assume authority **OVER A MAN**!
I Corinthians 15:34,35:**WOMEN** should remain silent in the churches, They are not allowed **TO SPEAK**, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about anything, they should ask their husbands at home; for it is **DISGRACEFUL** for a **WOMAN** **TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH**!!
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL** also wrote you with the **WISDOM GOD GAVE TO HIM**. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {To unbelievers} which **IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT**, as they do other Scriptures, to their own **DESTRUCTION**!
I Timothy 3:16,17: All Scripture is **GOD-BREATHEED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead and in view of His appearing and His Kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**; be prepared in season in out of season, correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear!!
I Peter 1:23-25: For you have been **BORN AGAIN**, not of perishable seed but the imperishable, through the living and enduring **WORD OF GOD**. For all people are like grass, and all their glory is like flowers in the field; the grass withers and the flowers fail, but the **WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER**!!
Apparently Ella, a woman preacher, has consistently for 32 years broken **CHRIST'S NT LAWS** in I Corinthians 14:34,35 and I Timothy 2:11 unless she can prove that these are not CHRIST'S NT LAWS**.
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 22 Apr, 2018 11:02 AM
I Corinthians 11:3-9: I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of a woman is man. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off: but it is a **DISGRACE** for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved. , then **SHE SHOULD COVER HER HEAD**! A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man!
Unfortunately very few churches obey the above New Covenant Laws concerning head coverings which are **CHRIST'S LAWS**
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 22 Apr, 2018 08:42 PM
I Timothy 2:9,10: I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, **NOT WITH ELABORATE HAIRSTYLES**, **GOLD** {Including rings!} or **PEARLS** or **EXPENSIVE CLOTHES**, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God!!
Unfortunately there are many churches who do not obey or ever preach these New Covenant commands of God under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 1 May, 2018 06:36 PM
I'm so glad Jesus came and then when He rose he revealed himself to women first. Then after he left us with the Holy Spirit and then the Bible women and the prostitute Rahab was written in the geneologjy of Jesus Christ. Christ knew that women would be oppressed and our heavenly Father knew this too.
God will hold many people in leadership to account. Including those which oppress his daughters because he loves us.
This has nothing to do with feminism.
Gods heart is being broken. That's why many churches cannot stand BECAUSE God is turning away from some church orders because of the spiritual oppression.
MY question is do not people realise that you can make the HOLY SPIRIT walk out of your church out of your life...
That is what is spiritual death.
Then you think you are spiritual?
Unfortunately, many Christian Fathers are NOT leading or passing on a blessing to their sons and daughters and so are instrumental in destroying Gods plan for the family.
There is allot of oppression in churches against widows the old fatherless homeless and yet Jesus himself said if you help anyone one of these you helped me.
Women are at the centre of Gods plan any oppression of them is dangerous.
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 1 May, 2018 06:57 PM
interpreters have made a strong case in favor of 1 Corinthians 13:34-35 actually being an interpolation of a later copyist. Of significant interest would be the direct appeal made to “the Law” in silencing women, especially as there is no specific prohibition in the Torah or Pentateuch that bars women from speaking in the assembly.
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 1 May, 2018 07:03 PM
women in ministry is something, which as of today, there is likely no Messianic consensus upon. There will be leaders, teachers, congregations, and organizations which (strongly) oppose women in positions of rabbinic/pastoral leadership, and there will be leaders, teachers, congregations, and organizations which support women in positions of rabbinic/pastoral leadership. Not surprisingly, the position that the editor holds, regarding various passages which inform Bible readers about this issue, is largely his own.
The most common passage used against women in ministry is 1 Timothy 2:11-12: “A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.” Those who oppose women in positions of leadership place a very strong emphasis on these verses. Many believe that the Apostle Paul has just issued a moratorium on all women in positions of ministry leadership for all time. It is not difficult to see why the current feminist movement has claimed that much of Christianity (and to a lesser extent Judaism) is dominated by male chauvinists, and why liberals largely discount 1 Timothy and the other Pastoral Epistles (2 Timothy and Titus) as authentically Pauline. What are we to do with 1 Timothy 2:11-12?
In the Hebrew Tanach, we certainly see some women in positions of critical leadership. Heroines such as Deborah (Judges 4-5), Ruth, and Esther are certainly godly women to be considered as models of exemplary service. In significant sectors of Judaism, the issue of women in leadership is not as severe as it is in various sectors of evangelical Christianity (and by extension, the Messianic community), because there are significant examples of women leading others in the Tanach. These examples cannot be disregarded in any examination of whether or not women should be allowed to occupy positions of spiritual leadership.
While the evil woman Queen Jezebel is often cited as the example of what will happen should women ever be placed in any positions of spiritual authority—as “Jezebel” represents the epitome of an evil, controlling female—Jezebel likely receives too much attention at the expense of all of the evil males seen in Scripture. While Jezebel is targeted as the epitome of evil females—what one single male example could be given to represent evil men? The Pharaoh of the Exodus, Haman, (Antiochus Epiphanes), Judas Iscariot, the antichrist? This is difficult for many Bible readers to determine. Many claim that if women are given positions of spiritual authority that things will run amok, but this is a rather weak argument in view of the fact that there are scores of examples available from religious history where men have controlled things and problems have abounded. Both men and women are equally guilty of causing problems for the faith community across the centuries.
In the Apostolic Scriptures themselves, we do see women take on a significant role in leadership. In Galatians 3:28, Paul says “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Messiah Yeshua.” There is to be a status of unity for those with faith in Yeshua the Messiah where gender does not significantly matter.[1] Following Paul’s visit to Philippi in Acts 16, it is the female Lydia who leads the new group of Believers, and Paul’s letter to the Philippians includes a reference to two women, Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2), who presumably occupy positions of leadership. Paul extends greetings to a female apostle, “Junia,” in Romans 16:7 (NRSV, ESV, HCSB).[2] And, we cannot forget the wife-husband teaching duo of Priscilla and Aquila in Acts 18.[3]
If there are witnesses in the Pauline corpus and Book of Acts to women being in positions of leadership in local assemblies of ancient Messiah followers, then is Paul contradicting himself in 1 Timothy 2:11-12? Or, is there a part of Paul’s letter to Timothy that is commonly missed or not considered?
To accurately understand Paul’s remarks in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 about women not teaching, we have to consider what 1 Timothy probably meant for the circumstances Timothy faced while administrating the assemblies in the vicinity of Ephesus. For the cultural norms of the day, Paul’s instruction “I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments” (1 Timothy 2:9), was undeniably appropriate. Braided hair, gold, pearls, and expensive clothing would have been considered signs of opulence, and possibly also sexual lewdness, for many females. Are these signs of opulence today, in the Twenty-First Century? Some who embrace a strict reading of the text, as though it speaks directly to all generations and all cultures at all times—without any kind of consideration for ancient history and setting—would say yes. Yet, we should be a bit more cautious in making such an extrapolation, as various interpreters would not argue that this is a prohibition for women wearing these things for all time. A value judgment regarding ancient and modern culture, and what is considered “modest,” has to be made.
When Paul further admonishes Timothy, “A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet” (1 Timothy 2:11-12), additional considerations have to be recognized. If Paul believes that various gender restrictions are irrelevant in Yeshua (Galatians 3:28), has he contradicted himself? (Is the letter of 1 Timothy a Deutero-Pauline composition as liberals commonly claim?) Or, have circumstances arisen in Ephesus that require the Apostle to tell Timothy to pull back the reigns on the involvement of the women in the assemblies he oversees?
It must be noted that the verb authenteō is rendered as “usurp authority” in the KJV, and this can significantly alter our perception of the circumstances in Ephesus that Timothy was facing. While commonly rendered with “I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man” (NASU), 1 Timothy 2:12 in the TNIV has the noticeably different, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man.”
A scholastic lexicon like BDAG does define authenteō as “to assume a stance of independent authority, give orders to, dictate to,”[4] followed by a more classical lexicon like LS, having “to have full power over.”[5] AMG actually defines authenteō as being related to the noun “authéntēs…murderer, absolute master, which is from autos…himself, and éntea (n.f.) arms, armor. A self-appointed killer with one’s own hand, one acting by his own authority or power.”[6] At our disposal are lexical definitions which would support how authority in general terms is not the issue Paul is addressing in 1 Timothy 2:12. The rather negative verb authenteō only appears in one place in the Greek Apostolic Scriptures (and not in the Greek Septuagint either), whereas the noun exousia and verb exousiazō are used throughout the Pauline letters to describe “authority” in general.[7] In the estimation of Philip B. Payne,
“If Paul wanted to convey the meaning of ‘to have authority’ without any negative nuances, it would have been natural for him to use a term such as he did in verse 2 of [1 Timothy 2] [en huperochē einai] or [exousian echein] [Romans 9:21] or [exousiazein] [1 Corinthians 6:12; 7:4] or one of the many other expressions Paul uses for having, using, or sharing authority.”[8]
We know that there were women in positions of leadership in the First Century ekklēsia, per the examples of those like Lydia, Euodia, Syntyche, Priscilla, and Junia. Is it possible that with the spread of the gospel, women in Timothy’s Ephesian congregations were feeling “liberated”—and “liberated” so much so that they tried to usurp the authority of the already existent male leadership? To what extent did the false teaching that advocated that the resurrection had already occurred factor in (2 Timothy 2:18)?
If Paul’s admonition to Timothy more specifically concerns women usurping leadership in the Ephesian congregations, then his words “A woman must be a learner, listening quietly and with due submission” (1 Timothy 2:11, NEB), can be more easily understood. Women in the First Century Mediterranean world were largely uneducated, untaught, or untrained (and illiterate). Men, on the contrary, were those who were largely allowed to be given some kind of schooling. If the Ephesian women—the largely untaught, uneducated women—were trying to usurp the authority of the taught, trained Ephesian men, Paul would absolutely want them to remain quiet and submissively learn. Many of these women would have been speaking about things they knew little or nothing about, either from the Holy Scriptures or society in general, and Paul would have instead wanted them to be prepared by the men who already had schooling, were literate, and were largely informed about Biblical matters.
Of course, the ramifications of this view are quite severe for any religious movement since. If Paul’s argument more specifically concerns First Century untaught and untrained females usurping the position of taught and trained males in the ekklēsia, then a modern-day application could be that either unqualified females or males are prohibited from usurping the position of those qualified for positions of spiritual leadership. This might ask various sectors of today’s Messianic movement some questions it is (largely) unprepared to answer.
With this in mind, we also have to consider what Paul means afterward in 1 Timothy 2:13-15:
“For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.”
1 Timothy 2:13-14 can be interpreted that since it was Eve who was deceived by the serpent in the Garden of Eden, that women are less intelligent and more susceptible to sin than men. Paul’s observation, though, is that Adam was “formed” (RSV, NIV, NRSV, ESV) before Eve, the verb plassō better viewed as “to form, mould, shape,” which in a classical context could mean “generally, to mould and form by education, training” (LS).[9] Adam had more experience in the Garden interacting with God and His Creation than Eve who came after him, and he failed to pass knowledge of this onto his wife who was deceived by the serpent.
Continuing, 1 Timothy 2:15 has been widely interpreted as meaning that the only place for women in the assembly is to be mothers and raise children. Yet, there is a translation issue that needs to be considered for women “saved through bearing children” (RSV). The Greek clause dia tēs teknogonias is literally “through the child-bearing” (YLT), including the definite article. The New Oxford Annotated Bible notes,
“This much debated verse has also been translated (a) ‘she will be saved through the birth of the Child’ [referring to Jesus Christ], or (b) ‘she will be brought safely through childbirth.’”[10]
A version like the New English Bible, likewise includes the alternate rendering, “through the Birth of the Child,” in a footnote.[11]
The emphasis of 1 Timothy 2:15 appears to more specifically be on “the Childbearing,” who is Yeshua the Messiah (the Seed promised to Eve in Genesis 3:15), rather than a physical act of giving birth to children. Paul’s instruction to Timothy in Ephesus is that the women are to seek their salvation in Him, and continue in proper faith, holiness, and piety. It is not a statement that women should just be placed in the corner and remain perpetually pregnant, completely oblivious to what goes on in some kind of a male-dominated and male-controlled congregation, male leaders that they are—for all time—to blindly follow without question.
The editor is personally convinced that when 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is weighed with the heroines of the Tanach, and other significant examples of women in positions of leadership in the Apostolic Scriptures, that there is no major or substantial basis for excluding women from positions of leadership in the assembly today. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 depicts a local situation to First Century Ephesus, with various translation issues that must be considered for an appropriate interpretation.[12]
The major factor to consider for individuals holding positions of leadership, either as pastors/rabbis of local assemblies or greater positions, is not gender but is having the right qualifications. What makes this a controversial view is that it assumes that today’s leaders in the current, largely male-dominated Messianic movement, have the right qualifications (and some may not).[13]
In time, especially as evangelical Christianity continues to struggle with the issues of women in ministry, so will today’s Messianic community likewise have to struggle with them. At present, forming any kind of consensus seems unlikely.
For a further examination, the editor recommends you consult the books Two Views on Women in Ministry, ed. James R. Beck (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2005) for a general overview of the options, and Craig S. Keener, Paul, Women & Wives: Marriage and Women’s Ministry in the Letters of Paul (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1992). Also to be significantly considered is Philip B. Payne, Man and Woman, One in Christ: An Exegetical and Theological Study of Paul’s Letters (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2009).
PART I - "Women In The Church" By Rev. Andy Zoppelt
Posted : 2 May, 2018 06:28 AM
Ella's Quote:
GNWS... "Please explain what this passage means that you have quoted: 1 Corinthians 14:34 "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. ."
"Also what "LAW" IS IN REFERENCE HERE THAT PAUL SPEAKS OF?..."Corinthians 14:34,35: {NIV}**WOMEN** should remain silent in the churches, They are not allowed **TO SPEAK**, but must be in submission, as the *LAW* says. If they want to inquire about anything, they should ask their husbands at home; for it is **DISGRACEFUL** for a **WOMAN** **TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH**!!
Ella obviously challenging whether the law Paul is speaking of is OT Law or some law not in God's Word or **CHRIST'S LAW**.
Paul has stated about 14 times that we are no longer under the supervision of OT Law as per: Galatians 3:25: Paul was inspired by God to write: Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come we are **NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {OT} LAW**!
I Corinthians 9:21: Paul said, "I am not free from God's law but am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!"
Acts 22:14,15: Ananias said to Paul, "The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know **HIS WILL** and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from His mouth!! You will be **HIS WITNESS** to all people of what you have seen and heard!
Acts 20:27: Paul said, "For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the **WHOLE WILL OF GOD**!
God chose Paul to write 14 of the 27 books in the NT of **CHRIST'S LAW**! And God chose Paul to give the rules for teaching and preaching in the church by Elders, Overseers, Pastors and Teachers in I Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, I Corinthians 14 and Ephesians 4:11-24 and other places.
Some of these inspired writings include:
** WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY ABOUT THE PREACHING AND TEACHING OF MEN AND WOMEN IN THE CHURCH**??
Titus 1:6-9: An **ELDER** must be blameless, faithful to **HIS** wife, a **MAN** whose children believe... Since an **OVERSEER** manages God's household, **HE** must be blameless... **HE** must **HOLD FIRMLY** to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that **HE** can encourage others by **SOUND DOCTRINE and **REFUTE THOSE** WHO OPPOSE IT**.
I Timothy 5:17: The **ELDERS** who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of a double honor, especially those whose work is **PREACHING ** and **TEACHING**!
I Timothy 3:1 Whoever desires to be an **OVERSEER** desires a noble task. Now the **OVERSEER**is to be above reproach, faithful to **HIS** wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable and **ABLE TO TEACH**!!
I Timothy 2:11: A **WOMAN** should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a **WOMEN** **TO TEACH** or to assume authority **OVER A MAN**!
I Corinthians 15:34,35:**WOMEN** should remain silent in the churches, They are not allowed **TO SPEAK**, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about anything, they should ask their husbands at home; for it is **DISGRACEFUL** for a **WOMAN** **TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH**!!
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL** also wrote you with the **WISDOM GOD GAVE TO HIM**. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {To unbelievers} which **IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT**, as they do other Scriptures, to their own **DESTRUCTION**!
I Timothy 3:16,17: All Scripture is **GOD-BREATHEED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead and in view of His appearing and His Kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**; be prepared in season in out of season, correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear!!
I Peter 1:23-25: For you have been **BORN AGAIN**, not of perishable seed but the imperishable, through the living and enduring **WORD OF GOD**. For all people are like grass, and all their glory is like flowers in the field; the grass withers and the flowers fail, but the **WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER**!!
Apparently Ella, a woman preacher, has consistently for 32 years broken **CHRIST'S NT LAWS** in I Corinthians 14:34,35 and I Timothy 2:11 unless she can prove that these are not CHRIST'S NT LAWS**.
