Before, at the time, during, and at some point after his conversion to Christ?
What do you think?
Historically and customarily, a pious Pharisee, in order to be called one, would have been married way before the age of 25 in Judaism.
Could have Paul been married? What do you think? There seems to be some evidence of the fact in one of the verses in one of the Epistles to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 9:5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? )
One thing that stands out is that he doesn't put himself in the category of a virgin in when addressing the "unmarried" men and women in the epistle (1 Corinthians 7:8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am.) because these "unmarried" people that he is addressing were at one time married and became "unmarried" at one time (via divorce, or death).
If Paul was once married before or during the time of his conversion, his wife (Who probably would have been of a prominent Pharisee home.) could have legally divorced him because of it.
By the way, for those who proclaim this to be a "new doctrine" and not worthy of being brought up, please be informed that this has been in discussion since the early 300's. Eusebius of Caesarea mentions something about Paul being married and used the very two verses I just presented to show for it in his works called Historia Ecclesiastica or Church History.
If this was/is the case, then do you think that the "seeking" a spouse would be as important as it is now?
ooooo yes absolutly as a matter of fact I have quit seeking right now I have 52 messages no 53 11 winks and 444 people have looked at my profile I am not the least bit interested I read the mail that comes from my friends on the forum, I was looking when I joined but now I am just like ... Jesus is the best husband I could ask for, I dont really desire a physical relationship at all he has so kindly deliverd me from that and I love that I can spend my extra time with the Lord I dont have to share it with a man, sometimes with my daughter but she is 17 so she doesnt even want tospend alot of time with me I have to force her most times.. Yes I agree if we are unmarried the scriptures are clear we can stay unmarried, I see it like this if we get married while we are saved we should never get a divorce, if we get saved while we are married but our spouce does not get saved then we should try to make it work and pray for their salvation! But if we was married before we got saved and divorced before we got saved that the same as being singke from the begining as if we are single at time of the new birth then we are just as single in gods eyes as if we had never been married as we are a new creation
Thank you, my sweet sister Elisha. That was a very profound statement and I was deeply blessed in knowing that I am not alone in this world in thinking the same. Once again the Scriptures are absolutely correct when they say that the brethren go through the same things at all times no matter where we are in life.
All praise be to our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. May your life be filled with the Love of our beloved in your life, sister.
ME-Agapeton:: ET, it is nice that you can say what you think the text is saying but the Greek is pretty clear that the "unmarried" means persons who were once married at one time and NOT VIRGINS because they are spoken of in 7:25-38 of the chapter.
Ella says: Agapeton, if in the Greek it speaks of the UNMARRIED SINGLES that Paul is speaking about to mean the divorced singles, then maybe you should post that content in the Greek...
Paul speaks to the married, widows, and the unmarried singles those who have NOT ever been married before, NOT THE UNMARRIED SINGLES DIVORCED in I Corinthians 7:1- 24.
ThEN when you read verses 25-38, he speaks to the married and unmarried single virgins. And in Verses 39-40, He addresses BOTH the divorced singles, and again the widows about remarrying:
7:39-40, A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives ( these are the people who have been divorced). But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. 40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is�and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.
There is no where in this chapter in the verses 1-38, wherein Paul addresses the single divorced people, even giving permission to for them to remarry outside of verses 15-16... provided that the divorce has been caused because of fornication, abandonment, or adultery, and abuse can also be included in this passage.
VERSES 15-16: But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
Elisha said: ella I agree there is no way to misunderstand what the apostle paul says in this scripture as he tells the married folks hje wishes they could be like hjim (single) but that everyone is different and some people have to have a partner then he tells the unmarried thats it better to be single however its better to be married than to burn with passion and I asume he is thinking of the temptaion to sin in a sexual way if you are unmarried all sex is sin
Ella says: You are right on point Elisha, Paul is speaking to the married and the unmarried singles, and he is speaking about those who are NOT AND HAVE NOT EVER BEEN MARRIED, that it is best they marry than to burn with lust (sexual passions) is what he means by "burning with passion" for each other, so they should get married.... and he explains that everybody cannot live a life of celibacy, becasue God has given each person differnet level or measures of sexual desires verses 7, "I wish that all of you were as I am (Paul lived a live of celibacy). But each of you has your OWN GIFT from God ( meaning level of sexual desires and are able to control themselves and their members, and live as the enunch); one has this gift ( a higher level of sexual desires), another has that (not so high level and is able to control and not have any sexual desires).
ME-Agapeton:: ET, it is nice that you can say what you think the text is saying but the Greek is pretty clear that the "unmarried" means persons who were once married at one time and NOT VIRGINS because they are spoken of in 7:25-38 of the chapter.
Ella says: Agapeton, if in the Greek it speaks of the UNMARRIED SINGLES that Paul is speaking about to mean the divorced singles, then maybe you should post that content in the Greek...
ME: OK. I will. I doubt you will see it that way because you didn't bother to research it for yourself but here it goes along with a few scholars to show for it, sister.
The Greek word that Paul uses in 1 Cor. 7:8 is agamos for "unmarried". This word is also used in 1 Cor. 7:11.
1Co 7:8 To the unmarried (AGAMOS) and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am.
1Co 7:11 (but if she does, she should remain unmarried(AGAMOS) or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife
Here are a few commentaries to show what I said.
Adam Clarke's commentary: 1Co 7:8
The unmarried and widows - It is supposed that the apostle speaks here of men who had been married, in the word αγαμοι, but were now widowers; as he does of women who had been married, in the word χηραι, but were now widows. And when he says ὡς καγω, even as I, he means that he himself was a widower; for several of the ancients rank Paul among the married apostles.
Geneva Bible commentary: 1Co 7:8 (6) I say therefore to the (f) unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
(6) Sixthly, he gives the very same admonition touching the second marriage, that is, that a single life is to be allowed, but for those who have the gift of continency. Otherwise they ought to marry again, so that their conscience may be at peace.
(f) This whole passage is completely against those who condemn second marriages.
John Gill's commentary: 1Co 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows,.... Not by way of command, but advice: by the "unmarried" he means, either such men who never were in a married state, or else such who had been married, but their wives were dead; which latter sense seems more agreeable, since they are joined with "widows", who had lost their husbands:
it is good for them if they abide; unmarried, and do not change their condition any more; not that it was sinful to marry again, for he allows of it in the next verse, in case they have not the gift of continence; and therefore "good" here, is not opposed to evil, only signifies that it would be better for them, more expedient and profitable for them; they would be more free from the cares of life, have less trouble, and be more at leisure to serve the Lord; and which he knew by experience, and therefore, proposes himself as an example:
even as I; that is, as he was then; for at that time it seems certain that he had no wife; though whether he had had one, and she was now dead, or whether he had never been married, may be matter of dispute; the former seems most agreeable, since he proposes himself as an example to widowers and widows; and having known what a married and single state both were, was better able to give his judgment of both, and proper advice to such persons which must come with more force and strength, and a better grace, from such an one.
You're reading your own thoughts and opions and of thsoe who would like to believe that Paul is speaking of himself as being a widow in what God has written.
Again there is no where in the book of Acts or in Paul's writings that remotrly suggest he was widowed or divorced. Connect the scriptures to the [assages in context...
Why is it just Because he included such saying after speaking to the unmarried and the wodows, that you would conclude it would indicate that he is speaking about hismelf as a widow, why can't it mean what the passage's intent is all about in the context of the passage?
He does not say to the divorced unmarried... he is speaking to the UNMARRIED Singles (meaning those who have NEVER been married) and the wsidows who are now single. Nothing more and nothing less. Again he speak to the divorced at the end of the chpater... no where has Paul given a divorced permission to remaryy unless a mate leaves, abandon the p[erson, so why would he include such in this verse if he is speaking to an unmarried person...
It is as he says a man or a owman who is divorced is married as long as thet person so lives they are divorced from, unless for cause of fornication or aduktrery, etc. A divorced person is NOT AN UMARRIED person, they are a single divorcee... by the meaning of the word an umarried person is one who has never been married.
Also, where is the Greek text you said you have on this [assage? Please post it in the Greek text/content of thispassage as you made mention. thanks..
Barnes Notes: Commentary on I Corinthians chapter 7..
Verse 7. For I would, etc. I would prefer. That all men, etc. That Paul was unmarried is evident from 1 Corinthians 9:5. But he does not refer to this fact here. When he wishes that all men were like himself, he evidently does not intend that he would prefer that all should be unmarried, for this would be against the Divine institution, and against his own precepts elsewhere. But he would be glad if all men had control over their passions and propensities as he had; had the gift of continence, and could abstain from marriage when circumstances of trial, etc., would make it proper. We may add, that when Paul wishes to exhort to anything that is difficult, he usually adduces his own example to show that it may be done; an example which it would be well for all ministers to be able to follow.
But every man hath his proper gift. Every man has his own peculiar talent, or excellence. One man excels in one thing, and another in another. One may not have this particular virtue, but he may be distinguished for another virtue quite as valuable. The doctrine here is, therefore, that we are not to judge of others by ourselves, or measure their virtue by ours. We may excel in some one thing, they in another. And because they have not our peculiar virtue, or capability, we are not to condemn or denounce them. Comp. Matthew 19:11,12.
Of God. Bestowed by God, either in the original endowments and faculties of body or mind, or by his grace. In either case it is the gift of God. The virtue of continence is his gift as well as any other; and Paul had reason, as any other man must have, to be thankful that God had conferred it on him. So if a man is naturally amiable, kind, gentle, large-hearted, tender, and affectionate, he should regard it as the gift of God, and be thankful that he has not to contend with the evils of a morose, proud, haughty, and severe temper. It is true, however, that all these virtues may be greatly strengthened by discipline, and that religion gives rigour and comeliness to them all. Paul's virtue in this was strengthened by his resolution; by his manner of life; by his frequent fastings and trials, and by the abundant employment which God gave him in the apostleship. And it is true still, that if a man is desirous to overcome the lusts of the flesh, industry, and hardship, and trial, and self-denial will enable him, by the grace of God, to do it. Idleness is the cause of no small part of the corrupt desires of men; and God kept Paul from these, (1.) by giving him enough to do; and, (2.) by giving him enough to suffer.
{a} "every man" Matthew 19:11,12
Verse 8. To the unmarried. The word unmarried (~agamoiv~) may refer either to those who had never been married, or to widowers. It here means simply those who were at that time unmarried, and his reasoning applies to both classes.
And widows. The apostle specifies these, though he had not specified widowers particularly. The reason of this distinction seems to be, that he considers more particularly the case of those females who had never been married, in the close of the chapter, 1 Corinthians 7:25.
It is good for them. It may be advisable, in the present circumstances of persecution and distress, not to be encumbered with the cares and anxieties of a family. 1 Corinthians 7:26,32-34.
If they abide. That they remain, in the present circumstances, unmarried. See 1 Corinthians 7:26.
{*} "unmarried and widows" "Or to widowers"
Verse 9. But if they cannot contain. If they have not the gift of continence; if they cannot be secure against temptation; if they have not strength of virtue enough to preserve them from the danger of sin, and of bringing reproach and scandal on the church.
It is better. It is to be preferred.
Than to burn. The passion here referred to is often compared to a fire. See Virg. AEn. iv. 68. It is better to marry, even with all the inconveniences attending the marriage life in a time of distress and persecution in the church, 1 Corinthians 7:26, than to be the prey of raging, consuming, and exciting passions.
You're reading your own thoughts and opions and of thsoe who would like to believe that Paul is speaking of himself as being a widow in what God has written.
Again there is no where in the book of Acts or in Paul's writings that remotrly suggest he was widowed or divorced. Connect the scriptures to the [assages in context...
ME: Sister, honestly. I am reading nothing but the text in the Greek. Plus I have spent several years studying the Jewish culture and it's customs. The custom and tradition of a legalistic sect of the Pharisee was that one HAD to be married by the age of 24. Paul had admitted that he was a pharisee and a son of a pharisee who was very successful and zealous in following the traditions of his fathers. That plus the fact that marriages were arranged at a young age for Jews (sometimes even at birth by prominent families) would make Paul's father arrange Paul to be married by that age.
Why is it just Because he included such saying after speaking to the unmarried and the wodows, that you would conclude it would indicate that he is speaking about hismelf as a widow, why can't it mean what the passage's intent is all about in the context of the passage?
ME: Because if Paul was a VIRGIN (parthenos) he would have classified himself as one but he didn't. in the case of 1 Cor. 7:25
He does not say to the divorced unmarried... he is speaking to the UNMARRIED Singles (meaning those who have NEVER been married) and the wsidows who are now single. Nothing more and nothing less. Again he speak to the divorced at the end of the chpater... no where has Paul given a divorced permission to remaryy unless a mate leaves, abandon the p[erson, so why would he include such in this verse if he is speaking to an unmarried person...
It is as he says a man or a owman who is divorced is married as long as thet person so lives they are divorced from, unless for cause of fornication or aduktrery, etc. A divorced person is NOT AN UMARRIED person, they are a single divorcee... by the meaning of the word an umarried person is one who has never been married.
ME: True, sister, BUT if one was once married they would not be VIRGINS (parthenos). Correct? If they were unmarried and not virgins they would be considered as sexually experienced one way or another outside of marriage.
That is why the Greek is pretty specific. Paul addresses the divorced "unmarried", the widowed, husbands, wives, and virgins in the text. While he does this he includes himself in the "unmarried" or widowed class.
Also, where is the Greek text you said you have on this [assage? Please post it in the Greek text/content of thispassage as you made mention. thanks..
