The deceptiveness of �free will� is found in its so-called simplicity: IF �we choose� to obey God, we can; and if �we decide� to rebel against God, we can do this too. The problem with this thinking is that in what �we can do� to please God, this is WORKS, and therefore NOT the grace of God at work, so that we could be willing to be doing under HIS workmanship, NOT �ours�.
At this present time, there are but a FEW who are acting according to the election of grace (Rom 11:5). Note that this election process is of grace: Now if it is �by grace�, [God working] then it is no more �of works� [�our own work/choosing�]; Otherwise it is no more grace (11:6). Grace by works is because we have not obtained election by grace without works: Most herein found are blind to their contradiction of being �in works for grace� (11:5-7); And this is because God has given them a slumbering spirit (11:8); And this is so that they could be entrapped (11:9); And this is because they cannot hear what they need to hear, and see what they need to see (11:8). These believers have stumbled unto falling into darkness (11:11-10).
Those who love this darkness of being into �Their Own Works� rather than the light of being in God working ARE IN CONDEMNATION (Jn 3:19 and 21). Whatever we are into which we have done for �Our� justification [�our will, way, words, or works�], and we have fallen from grace/God�s will, way, words, and works (Gal 5:4). Unless we can acknowledge God�s will, we do not get repentance to be in this truth, so that we could be recovered from the devil�s will (2Tim 2:25-26). The faithful saying is (NOT by �our will�) but dead with Him, so that we could live with Him, and suffer with Him, so that we could reign with Him: Deny this, and He will deny you! (2:11-12). NOTE He cannot deny self (2:13); IT IS �WE� WHO ARE TO DENY �SELF� (Matt 16:24).
Whosoever wills {is in �their own will�} loses the ability to come after Jesus unto losing their soul (16:25-24 and 26); Beware of this leavening doctrine of the Pharisees [free will] (16:11-12). IF you believe in God by �your choice/choosing� then you are trapped into worshipping God in a place on this earth, in your body when God says He does NOT dwell in temples/churches that have been made with �men�s hands� (Acts 17:24-25). God is commanding everyone everywhere to Repent of This IGNORANT worship! (17:30); Because God says we MUST worship Him in spirit, and in truth (Jn 4:24-23). Humanity has fallen from God�s will be done in spirit into man�s will be done in body! The fall is from being IN spirit (Is 31:3).
Disciples are known for their love towards one another, in the truth, AND in the actions of love including affection, and esteeming others above yourself because the Royal commandment is to LOVE...
(Rom 12:10, Gal 5:13-14, Eph 4:2, Heb 10:24, 1Pet 1:22, 1Jn 4:7)
Two, I am glad I didn't answer you now. Margo would have made my answer look amateurish. LOL. Seriously, I think the two of you, along with Ella, have done a wonderful job.
Because we don't know the criteria God uses to choose His elect, we can never say that foreknowledge (or knowledge) of our acceptance is not a part of that criteria. I believe it is, but that is just opinion.
In the end, Ella is the one I agree with most. Either of these doctrines limits God to man's understanding, so neither could possibly be correct. I believe you will find the bible contains a mix of the two. In the end, God is only limited in that He cannot lie, so He can do as He pleases, and who are we to question that?
And the only reason God cannot lie is, when He speaks, it happens. If God says the sky is purple, you better look up, because it just changed colors.
You are a good man, and it is a pleasure to discuss things with you. I admire your humility and intellectual honesty. If there were only more people like you these forums would be a treasure chest of valuable truths.
P.S. Margo is pretty good...huh? Brains, Beauty and Spirituality all in one slender, sleek package!
Two what does intelligience, have to do with the truth, did you ever hear the lord exalt mans reasonings? SIGH! I guess some believe the horse is the greater one, probably not you though.
What I was referring to is "intellectual honesty". Most discussions in these forms intellectual dishonesty seems to be the prevalent choice of rebuttal. It can be very frustrating to post a honest answer that agrees with scripture only to have one reply by intentionally miss quoting you so that it disagrees with scripture. The other thing people do is attack the poster instead of the post. They try to make it about the character of who is saying it rather than what is being said. Lastly people will intentionally misunderstand a post then argue against the misunderstood view. Leon did none of these things.....it was refreshing.
