Thread: The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Admin
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 4 Jul, 2011 08:39 AM
On http://www.monergism.com/directory/l...ensationalism/
they say:
"Dispensationalism is a system of biblical interpretation formalized in the nineteenth century by John Nelson Darby and later popularized by the publishing of the study Bible of C. I. Scofield and the establishment of Dallas Theological Seminary by Lewis Sperry Chafer. It is the foundation of what is known in eschatological studies as "pre-tribulational premillenialism" and involves the division of history into (usually) seven distinct periods of time known as "dispensations". Twentieth century writers such as John Walvoord, Dwight Pentecost, and Charles Ryrie brought the doctrines of Dispensationalism into mainstream scholarship, which are often summarized by Ryrie's famous "sine qua non", i.e., his statement of the three primary tenets of the system. These are:
1) a clear distinction between Israel and the Church,
2) literal interpretation of Scripture..."
On http://www.realapologetics.org/blog/...lism/#_ftnref3
they quote C. I. Scofield, the first classical American dispensationalist as saying:
""[Prophecy is] the ground of absolute literalnesss."
Jerusalem is always Jerusalem, Israel always Israel, Zion always Zion�Prophecies may never be spiritualized, but are always literal."
"Prophecies may never be spiritualized, but are always literal?
Where in the Bible did Scofield get this?
In Matthew 13: 35 Christ says "That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
Mark 4: 34 says "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples."
In Hosea 12: 10 God says "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets."
Where does the New Testament say that all prophecy must be taken to be literal? It does not say this anywhere.
If we always had to follow the rule that prophecy must be literal, then when God says in II
Kings 21: 13 that he will turn Jerusalem upside down, this means turning that literal city upside down and somehow ripping it off the ground, and raising it up so that streets and buildings would show at its bottom in the sky.
"Jerusalem" is not the literal city of Jerusalem. Second, turning it upside down is a figure of speech, not a literal turning of a city upside down. Taking this prophecy to be literal takes away its meaning.
In fact, what is the meaning of turning Jerusalem upside down?
Again, in Ezekiel 37: 1-12 when the Lord showed Ezekiel many dry bones down in the valley, told Ezekiel to prophesy on the dry bones, and the bones became alive like a great army, this must - for the dispensationalists - mean a miracle in which the bones of people long dead are suddenly brought to life. But, as is often the case in Bible prophecy, this description is metaphoric and not literal. The dry bones in a low place signify spiritual death of the children of Israel. When they are brought back to life and stand upon their feet like a great army, this means physical Israel, long spiritually dead, is given an opportunity to be brought back to life in Jesus Christ. They were to be transformed by being reborn in Christ.
Stephen H. Tyng, Jr., host of the first International Prophetic Conference in 1878, said Common sense proved that "a literal rendering is always to be given in the reading of Scripture, unless the context makes it absurd."
But how do you determine if a dispensationalist interpretation of a prophecy is absurd?
Hal Lindsey makes use of the dispensationalist literalist
interpretation of prophecy in suggesting in his New World Coming (1973), that the locusts of Revelation 9: 3, etc might be an advanced kind of helicopter.
See page 8 and page 141 for a reference to Cobra helicopters.
One problem is that popular dispensationalists contradict one another in their literalist interpretations of the Book of Revelation. For example, in their interpretation of Revelation 9:13-19, Tim Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey contradict one another.
Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins say the 200 million army of Revelation 9: 16 are a supernatural horde of 200 million demonic horsemen while for Hal Lindsey and Schuyler English they are literal Chinese soldiers.
Tim LaHaye & Jerry B. Jenkins, Are We Living in the End Times?, (Wheaton, Tyndale House, 1999), pp190-192.
From Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye's writings, it seems that in practice dispensationalist literalism is not necessarily any more consistent or free of bias than any other system of Bible interpretation.
And it often leads to a failure in understanding of Bible prophecy.
What if the main purpose of the tribulation was to send a fire upon the church (Zechariah 13: 8-9), and hail (Isaiah 28: 15-18) to purge it and bring out some who arrive at the truth, and to judge the church (I Peter 4: 17, Hebrews 10: 30)? Their entire system, including literal interpretation and the pre-tribulation rapture, can cause them to miss the beginning of the tribulation and not to know its main purpose is to deal with the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3. Some followers of dispensationalism may come to think that the tribulation has started and they have not been raptured, and may then question the pre-trib rapture. But they are likely to stick to their belief in Jewish supremacy.
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 4 Jul, 2011 08:54 AM
If this is to be taken literal,then there would not be left one person which would not be maimed.
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
I would have had no hands or feet at age 6
I would also have been blind by age 9
Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
That is the reason for rules of Biblical interpretaion.
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 4 Jul, 2011 10:10 PM
SirJames is correct, literal simply means taking it in the style that it is written. There are passages we will not understand until they happen, but there are some things that we can understand ahead of time.
As you point out, it would be absurd to physically turn Jerusalem upside down. But, it would not be absurd for the kingdom to last a literal 1000 years. The real wisdom is in understanding what is symbolic and what is not symbolic.
The problem with prophecy is that we don�t truly understand it until we are in the middle of it. It is foolishness to try and say that we can understand now exactly what will happen in the future.
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 5 Jul, 2011 11:27 AM
Here..here James, I agree.:applause:... each book s to be taken as it is written. It is the word of God and we are to obey what He says, but He has also made points of references by which we are to understand as lierally speaking and symbolically speaking.
There are many people who d not understand that everything Jesus speaks about is not to be taken literally but is to be taken as truth but is symbolic of a point He is making. I have a dear friend who years ago before God brought him to his senses, thought every thing God said in the Bible was to be taken literally. No matter how we tried to reason with him, he could not understand.
Therefore, because he was always commiting adultery, he took Matthew chapter5 verses 27-30 as meaning he was to do as God says here, because he felt he couldn not stop committing adultery on his own, and God was calling him into ministry and he did not want to displese God. Matthew chapter 5: 27 �You have heard that it was said, �You shall not commit adultery. 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. .
So you know what he did?... he took this passages literally, at the age of 40 something, he cut off hispenis, and as the Lord would have it, his wife and children happened to come home, just as he was about to do what he thought was right by plucking out his eyes so he wouldn't look upon another woman... Now how insane can this be?... they found hispenis and rushed him to the hospital, and it was in time for doctors to reattach it, and sometimes later he and everybody made great laughter about this, and today at age 80 yrs. old, he testifies that it may have been the wrong thing to do, and it showed how crazy he was, but it sure stopped him from committing adultery.:laugh:
Jesus is speaking about recognizing the source of our lust and sin, and putting a stop to such sin. Sin comes from the heart of man that send man to hell, lack of self-discipline and sefl-control. But I tell you the truth, it was a sad case, and there are many Christian people who are ignorant of what is to be taken literally and what isn't but do not understand or know that God is making a points by using examples for our learning.
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 5 Jul, 2011 12:41 PM
"There are many styles and types of writing in the Bible, and you should take each book as it is written.
The Song of Solomon is poetry, so you should take it by the rules of poetry.
Proverbs is a collection of short sayings on how to be wise.
We should NOT take proverbs as an allegorical prophecy.
Genesis is narrative, and NOT an allegory!"
I wonder, though, if - using this system - II Kings would not be considered to be history, which should be taken as literal, and therefore cannot have texts within it which are prophecy that have to be taken to be metaphoric?
What would you do with II Kings 21: 13, "...and i will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it and turning it upside down?"
This is prophecy which was fulfilled. What does this prophecy mean?
It is opened, to a great extent, in another Old Testament text, which I will get to soon.
And Deuteronomy must, by this system, be a book of the law, and must be interpreted literally. There should not be any prophecy in this book. But look at Deuteronomy 32: 35-36 says
"To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
36. For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left."
Again, this is prophecy, though its not as metaphoric as II Kings 21: 13. None shut up says there will be none left in prison. None left can be interpreted to mean all have been killed.
These are "his servants," people who claimed to belonged to God. They went after false gods during the Old Covenant. But this prophecy will run again under the New Covenant, after the falling away into apostasy by the church, and may be fulfilled more specifically then when there will be "none shut up, or left."
My King James Reference Bible says that Deuteronomy 32: 35-36 is quoted in Hebrews 10: 30, "For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people."
In a general way I Peter 4: 17, supports Deuteronomy 32: 35-36 and Hebrews 10: 30, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God..."
Go back to II Kings 21: 13 and the prophecy that Jerusalem will be turned upside down. What does this mean?
Isaiah 29: 16 mentions God's turning of things upside down. "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He hath no understanding."
Isaiah 29: 16 points to the parable of God as the potter. The text using God as the potter remaking Israel is in Jeremiah 18: 1-6, "The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2. Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3. Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."
This parable shows that God made one pot on his potter's wheel, which was marred. Then he remade of that same lump of clay another pot that seemed good to him.
Physical Israel was transformed into Israel reborn in Christ, to become that Israel in Romans 9: 8 are the "...children of the promise (who) are counted for the seed." The Israel that was transformed by God in Christ Jesus is also that Jerusalem in Galatians 4: 26 which "...is above, is free, which is the mother of us all."
The Israel, or physical Israel, which did not like to be changed, or turned upside down, became in Romans 9: 8 "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God," and in Galatians 4: 25 the "...Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children."
In fact in Acts 17: 6 when Paul and Silas were at the synagogue in Thessalonica, the Jews which did not believe "...drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also."
Paul and Silas were there to help fulfill the prophecy of II Kings 21: 13, to turn Jerusalem upside down, which was the transformation of Israel.
Romans 8: 29 is often cited by Calvinists in support of their doctrine of predestination. " For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
Who are these brethren of whom Christ was the firstborn? What is their identity?
The brethren are of Israel reborn in Christ, that Jerusalem which is above, is free and is the mother of us all. There is no mention of another group of brethren who are called the "church," and have a different, separate identity as the "church." The ekklesia translated as "church" is simply the congregations or groups meeting together of Israel born again in Christ.
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 5 Jul, 2011 12:56 PM
When the Bible tells us that the apostles turned Jerusalem upside down, it means that the people's lives weer changed and they followed the teaching of Christ and believed...
I like to say, they turned the place unside down, and the people's lives right side up.:laugh:
As stated there are scripture passages are are to be taken just as Gd has spoken them, and there are scripture passages thar we are to figure out their meaning as they relate to our situation... plucking out your eyes or cutting off yur private parts or hand, is not what Jesus is speaking about to do literally...
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 5 Jul, 2011 01:02 PM
WOW! re-write! bad typing... :ROFL:
When the Bible tells us that the apostles turned Jerusalem upside down, it means that the people's lives weer changed and they followed the teaching of Christ and believed...
I like to say, they turned the place unside down, and the people's lives right side up.
As stated there are scripture passages are are to be taken just as Gd has spoken them, and there are scripture passages thar we are to figure out their meaning as they relate to our situation... plucking out your eyes or cutting off yur private parts or hand, is not what Jesus is speaking about to do literally...
RE-WRITE:
When the Bible tell us that the apostles turned Jerusalem upside down, it means that the people's lives were changed, and they followed the teachings of Christ and believed...
I like to say they turned the place upside down, and the people's lives right side up. upside down is a figure of speech, meaning to put on the right path, to set straight...or in order.
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 5 Jul, 2011 01:28 PM
"When the Bible tell us that the apostles turned Jerusalem upside down, it means that the people's lives were changed, and they followed the teachings of Christ and believed..."
The context of Acts 17: 1-10 is one where the Jews who did not believe created an uproar, and even the threat of violence. These Jews were highly opposed to what Paul and Silas were preaching. In verse 5 it says "But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people."
The Jews didn't say Paul and Silas turned Jerusalem upside down. They said Paul and Silas turned the world upside down.
In using the expression turning the world upside down, the Holy Spirit is reminding us of II Kings 21: 13, and that the preaching of Paul and Silas was the fulfillment of that prophecy.
The followers of dispensationalism might not like this thread in the Bible, running from II Kings 21: 13, to Isaiah 29: 16, to Jeremiah 18: 1-6 and ending in Acts 17: 6 and what it teaches about the transformation of physical Israel into Israel reborn. And so Acts 17: 6 cannot be seen - by them - as part of this thread. Acts 17: 6 must be given another spin, that turning the world upside down means changing the people's lives. The Gospel did that, but to limit turning the world upside down to this and not to see it as a fulfillment of the prophecy is sort of rejecting knowledge, that is, the knowledge given by II Kings 21; 13, Isaiah 29: 16, and Jeremiah 18: 1-6.
The Theology That Says All Scripture Must Be Taken As Literal
Posted : 5 Jul, 2011 04:19 PM
Halfback said: The Jews didn't say Paul and Silas turned Jerusalem upside down. They said Paul and Silas turned the world upside down.
In using the expression turning the world upside down, the Holy Spirit is reminding us of II Kings 21: 13, and that the preaching of Paul and Silas was the fulfillment of that prophecy.
Ella said: Yes, the New Testament cannot be understood without understanding what God has prophesied in the Old. Can't have one without the other...mirroring...Old Testament were things to come in the New Testament. And we are still seeing the works of the Holy Spirit through Paul's work coming to pass in the 21 cenutry turning the world upsie down, until Jesus comes and turn the world right side up!:yay:
