Author Thread: Regenaration Precedes Faith;
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Regenaration Precedes Faith;
Posted : 8 Sep, 2011 08:06 AM

Is not of the word of Faith, it is sin, denying the central bible truth of faith.



1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;



The seduction will come at the mind, and the man will begin to entertain by reasoning and the he will be hooked.

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dljrn04

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Regenaration Precedes Faith;
Posted : 8 Sep, 2011 01:45 PM

read the whole bible, not just the scripture finneyism tells you to.



Regeneration is the spiritual change wrought in the heart of man by the Holy Spirit in which his/her inherently sinful nature is changed so that he/she can respond to God in Faith, and live in accordance with His Will (Matt. 19:28; John 3:3,5,7; Titus 3:5). It extends to the whole nature of man, altering his governing disposition, illuminating his mind, freeing his will, and renewing his nature.



Regeneration, or new birth, is an inner re-creating of fallen human nature by the gracious sovereign action of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5-8). The Bible conceives salvation as the redemptive renewal of man on the basis of a restored relationship with God in Christ, and presents it as involving "a radical and complete transformation wrought in the soul (Rom. 12:2; Eph. 4:23) by God the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5; Eph. 4:24), by virtue of which we become 'new men' (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10), no longer conformed to this world (Rom. 12:2; Eph. 4:22; Col. 3:9), but in knowledge and holiness of the truth created after the image of God (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10; Rom. 12:2)" (B. B. Warfield, Biblical and Theological Studies, 351). Regeneration is the "birth" by which this work of new creation is begun, as sanctification is the "growth" whereby it continues (I Pet. 2:2; II Pet. 3:18). Regeneration in Christ changes the disposition from lawless, Godless self-seeking (Rom. 3:9-18; 8:7) which dominates man in Adam into one of trust and love, of repentance for past rebelliousness and unbelief, and loving compliance with God's law henceforth. It enlightens the blinded mind to discern spiritual realities (I Cor. 2:14-15; II Cor. 4:6; Col. 3:10), and liberates and energizes the enslaved will for free obedience to God (Rom. 6:14, 17-22; Phil. 2:13).



The use of the figure of new birth to describe this change emphasizes two facts about it. The first is its decisiveness. The regenerate man has forever ceased to be the man he was; his old life is over and a new life has begun; he is a new creature in Christ, buried with him out of reach of condemnation and raised with him into a new life of righteousness (see Rom. 6:3-11; II Cor. 5:17; Col. 3:9-11). The second fact emphasized is the monergism of regeneration. Infants do not induce, or cooperate in, their own procreation and birth; no more can those who are "dead in trespasses and sins" prompt the quickening operation of God's Spirit within them (see Eph. 2:1-10). Spiritual vivification is a free, and to man mysterious, exercise of divine power (John 3:8), not explicable in terms of the combination or cultivation of existing human resources (John 3:6), not caused or induced by any human efforts (John 1:12-13) or merits (Titus 3:3-7), and not, therefore, to be equated with, or attributed to, any of the experiences, decisions, and acts to which it gives rise and by which it may be known to have taken place.



Biblical Presentation

The noun "regeneration" (palingenesia) occurs only twice. In Matt. 19:28 it denotes the eschatological "restoration of all things" (Acts 3:21) under the Messiah for which Isreal was waiting. This echo of Jewish usage points to the larger scheme of cosmic renewal within which that of individuals finds its place. In Titus 3:5 the word refers to the renewing of the individual. Elsewhere, the thought of regeneration is differently expressed.



In OT prophecies regeneration is depicted as the work of God renovating, circumcising, and softening Israelite hearts, writing his laws upon them, and thereby causing their owners to know, love, and obey him as never before (Deut. 30:6; Jer. 31:31-34; 32:39-40; Ezek. 11:19-20; 36:25-27). It is a sovereign work of purification from sin's defilement (Ezek. 36:25; cf. Ps. 51:10), wrought by the personal energy of God's creative outbreathing the personal energy of God's creative outbreathing ("spirit": Ezek. 36:27; 39:29). Jeremiah declares that such renovation on a national scale will introduce and signal God's new messianic administration of his covenant with his people (Jer. 31:31; 32:40).



In the NT the thought of regeneration is more fully individualized, and in John's Gospel and First Epistle the figure of new birth, "from above" (anothen: John 3:3, 7, Moffatt), "of water and the Spirit" (i.e., through a purificatory operation of God's Spirit: see Ezek. 36:25-27; John 3:5; cf. 3:8), or simply "of God" (John 1:13, nine times in I John), is integral to the presentation of personal salvation. The verb gennao (which means both "beget" and "bear") is used in these passages in the aorist or perfect tense to denote the once-for-all divine work whereby the sinner, who before was only "flesh," and as such, whether he knew it or not, utterly incompetent in spiritual matters (John 3:3-7), is made "spirit" (John 3:6), i.e., is enabled and caused to receive and respond to the saving revelation of God in Christ. In the Gospel, Christ assures Nicodemus that there are no spiritual activities, no seeing or entering God's kingdom, because no faith in himself, without regeneration (John 3:1ff.); and John declares in the prologue that only the regenerate receive Christ and enter into the privileges of God's children (John 1:12-13). Conversely, in the Epistle John insists that there is no regeneration that does not issue in spiritual activities. The regenerate do righteousness (I John 2:29) and do not live a life of sin (3:9; 5:18: the present tense indicates habitual law-keeping, not absolute sinlessness, cf. 1:8-10); they love Christians (4:7), believe rightly in Christ, and experience faith's victory over the world (5:4). Any who do otherwise, whatever they claim, are still unregenerate children of the devil (3:6-10).



Paul specifies the Christological dimensions of regeneration by presenting it as (1) a lifegiving coresurrection with Christ (Eph. 2:5; Col. 2:13; cf. I Pet. 1:3); (2) a work of new creation in Christ (II Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:10; Gal. 6:15). Peter and James make the further point that God "begets anew" (anagennao: I Pet. 1:23) and "brings to birth" (apokyeo: James 1:18) by means of the gospel. It is under the impact of the word that God renews the heart, so evoking faith (Acts 16:14-15).



Historical Discussion

The fathers did not formulate the concept of regeneration precisely. They equated it, broadly speakin, with baptismal grace, which to them meant primarily (to Pelagius, exclusively) remission of sins. Augustine realized, and vindicated against Pelagianism, the necessity for prevenient grace to make man trust and love God, but he did not precisely equate this grace with regeneration. The Reformers reaffirmed the substance of Augustine's doctrine of prevenient grace, and Reformed theology still maintains it. Calvin used the term "regeneration" to cover man's whole subjective renewal, including conversion and sanctification. Many seventeenth century Reformed theologians equated regeneration with effectual calling and conversion with regeneration (hence the systematic mistranslation of epistrepho, "turn," as a passive, "be converted," in the AV); later Reformed theology has defined regeneration more narrowly, as the implanting of the "seed" from which faith and repentance spring (I John 3:9) in the course of effectual calling. Arminianism constructed the doctrine of regeneration synergistically, making man's renewal dependent on his prior cooperation with grace; liberalism constructed it naturalistically, identifying regeneration with a moral change or a religious experience.

The fathers lost the biblical understanding of the sacraments as signs to sir up faith and seals to confirm believers in possession of the blessings signified, and so came to regard baptism as conveying the regeneration which it signified (Titus 3:5) ex opere operato to those who did not obstruct its working. Since infants could not do this, all baptized infants were accordingly held to be regenerated. This view has persisted in all the non-Reformed churches of Christendom, and among sacramentalists within Protestantism.



J I Packer

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Posted : 8 Sep, 2011 03:28 PM

I Concur!



What I Do Not Understand is How you can Post this Article and still Claim that Man has No Free Will? Packer himself states that man does:



��and liberates and energizes the enslaved will for free obedience to God (Rom. 6:14, 17-22; Phil. 2:13).� (End of Second Paragraph)



Otherwise Everything else that he says is Correct:



Baptism is a Sacrament that Removes Sin (Including Original Sin) and Regenerates � that is why we Baptize Babies.



Baptism Regenerates Man and Allows Man to Respond to God�s Word.

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Posted : 8 Sep, 2011 03:30 PM

I was Agreeing with dljrn04.



Sorry PJ...I am not sure as to what Question or Statement you are Posting?

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dljrn04

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Posted : 8 Sep, 2011 03:48 PM

It is important that we make some clear distinctions here. In contrast to many who inconsistently affirm that man has free will, I will demonstrate below that responsibility is not the same thing as freedom. While we affirm that man is indeed responsible for the choices he makes, yet we deny that the Bible teaches that man has a free will. It is no where taught in the pages of Scripture. In fact, just the opposite is taught throughout its pages. Consider this: Whenever someone acknowledges the need for grace, they do away with free will altogether. For what need is there for grace if man can come to Christ of his own will power? And since all true Christians acknowledge the need of grace, they all deny free-will perhaps without knowing it. Again, God calls all men to obey the Ten Commandments. but they are morally impotent to do so. This plainly demonstrates, from one small example, that inability does not alleviate responsibility. Paul says the reason for the divine legislation is not to prove our ability but to reveal sin, or our inability (Rom 3:19, 20) Christ alone sets us free from our bondage to sin (John 8:36, Romans 6:18). We all affirm that man is free from outside coercion, but he is not free of necessity. His choices are voluntary, but in bondage to sin. The Bible expresses this in this way: "A sow, after washing, returns to its wallowing in the mud." In other words, the pig does what is natural to it, which is wallow in the mud and so does the natural man who will not submit to the humling terms of the gospel apart from a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:63) to give him a new heart.



A very good way to begin a discussion when someone claims man has a free will is to define freedom. Ask the question: free from what? Free from sin? These questions go a long way to get the discussion on the right track.



Again, we affim that God is sovereign and man makes voluntary choices, and so is responsible for his actions. However, the more fundamental question is, �Does the bible teach that God is sovereign and that man chooses things without external coercion, for which he is responsible?�. If God has spoken in his word, our first duty is to believe, whether or not we can at first reconcile what he has said in our finite minds. Often He will grant us more understanding as the whole counsel of Scripture unfolds. To those tempted to cavil against God's absolute sovereignty, or to charge him with evil, I would encourage you to let God's word speak ... take the time to read and yield to the authority of Scripture, not what what feels comfortable to you. Since God has reveals a lot about this topic in Scripture He obviously meant for us to think about it. But when we charge God with evil or injustice we are on very shakey ground. In response to those who reject God's meticulous sovereignty, the Scripture says, �On the contrary, who are you to reply back to God?� (Rom 9:20). However, having said this, we can demonstrate from Scripture that sovereignty and responsibility are both clear biblical truth, and since God's is the author of all logic we can look to the Scripture to let it change our understanding.



Consider this. If a person borrows $1 billion to fund a company and then goes and squanders it in a week of wild living in Las Vegas, his inability to repay the debt does not alleviate him of the responsibility to do so. Our condition in Adam is like a debt we cannot repay. We are responsible. The command to believe the gospel is to be proclaimed to all men. All are responsible to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was crucified for sinners, then rose from the dead and that He grants forgiveness of sin to ALL who believe. But when the synergist says but "men may be saved if they will." we must reply, "Agreed, we all believe that; however, it is the "if they will" that is the difficulty. Are men ever found NATURALLY willing to submit to the humbling terms of the gospel of Christ? Jesus Himself declares that no man will come to Christ unless God grants it (John 6:63-65).



So God may save whom he will according to His sovereign good pleasure (Eph 1:3-5) because left to himself, no one would come to Christ, apart from the work of the Spirit. So while man's choices are not free from sin, yet the Bible clearly teaches that they are voluntary. He chooses what he desires but a bad tree only produces bad fruit. Only a miracle of God's grace in Christ can make the tree (and fruit) good. Natural men must first be born from above if they are to either see or enter the kingdom of God ... "born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.: (John 1:13). Scholars agree that "the flesh" refers to the natural man; or the person without the Holy Spirit. The Apostle here demonstrates, therefore, that our will to believe does not come from a person who is still in their unregenerate state.



1. Note: The natural man is not free. He is neither free to thwart God's decree, nor is he free from sin's bondage, but with regard to salvation, he is free from external coersion. He rejects Christ voluntarily unless God has mercy on him



John Hendryx

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Posted : 8 Sep, 2011 04:04 PM

I Peter 1:23-25: For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the Living and Enduring Word of God...and the Word of the Lord stands forever. And this is the Word that was preached to you."



John 1:12,13: To all who received Him {Jesus}..He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, NOR of *HUMAN DECISION or of a husband's will, but BORN OF GOD."



John 15:16: Jesus says, "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last."



Matthew 13:23: Jesus says, "But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who HEARS the Word and UNDERSTANDS it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred {100},

sixty, {60} or thirty times what was sown.":angel:



Ephesians 2:8-10: For it is by *GRACE* you have been saved, through faith--and this {Faith is} NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are GOD'S WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." {Grace is God's unmerited favor}



Romans 8:28-30: "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son... And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.":applause::angel::peace:



Jesus says, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall LOSE NONE of all He has given Me, but raise them up on the Last Day...No one can come to Me *UNLESS* the Father who sent Me DRAWS HIM, and I will raise him up at the Last Day." {Of the Great Tribulation}

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Posted : 8 Sep, 2011 08:15 PM

Scripture is our source for the bible forum, reformation theology does not qualify any more than any other man's doctrine's. Thw ord of God is our example.

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dljrn04

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Posted : 9 Sep, 2011 02:19 AM

Paul says the reason for the divine legislation is not to prove our ability but to reveal sin, or our inability (Rom 3:19, 20) Christ alone sets us free from our bondage to sin (John 8:36, Romans 6:18).

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Posted : 9 Sep, 2011 04:50 AM

The whole context in the third chapter of romans is of those that do not believe so the opinion of calvinism is wrong Again.



Jesus is not sin or the author of it nor is he troubled by it, he knows he, life is the answer for it.



Satan knows if he can keep you talking about him, he can mankind distracted from the answer. I realize he does not tell on himself and of course poises as the true God.



The god of the Sovereignity, the one that keep saying can do as he wants is Satan.

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dljrn04

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Posted : 9 Sep, 2011 12:47 PM

The sovereignty of God and the seduction by the Devil do not eliminate the fact that man perpetrates and perpetuates sin, therefore he cannot be relieved of the responsibility for it. Adam and Eve were beguiled by Satan, yet they were pronounced guilty and punished by God (Genesis 3:16-18). In the end of the age those persons who are deceived by Satan and Antichrist are held responsible to God and judged by Him (II Thessalonians 2:9-12). The seat of sin is in man himself. Our Lord said, �For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies� (Matthew 15:19). The heart of man is the birthplace of all sinful thoughts, words and actions. �The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?� (Jeremiah 17:9). In each of us there is sin for which each is accountable. The hidden capacities for evil are present in even the best of men.



Man�s antagonism becomes aroused when the subject of original sin is brought up for discussion. He resents the idea that he is born with hereditary guilt and depravity. The Scriptures state clearly, �Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation,� and �by one man�s disobedience many were made sinners� (Romans 5:18, 19). These are the plain facts as given to Paul from the Holy Spirit, and yet one theologian wrote, �We firmly deny that the sin of Adam is imputed to his descendants.� Another declared, �Neither Scripture nor human wisdom will permit any man to say that Adam�s sin has been imputed to Adam�s descendants.� Human wisdom and sentiment may cause the natural mind to rise up in protest against the doctrine of original sin, but this is due to �the blindness of their heart� (Ephesians 4:18). �The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned� (I Corinthians 2:14). But no amount of unbelief can change the truth that all men are constituted sinners judicially by God. We must take our stand on the Word of God which silences all opposition. �That which is born of the flesh is flesh� (John 3:6).

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Posted : 9 Sep, 2011 12:57 PM

It is the hardened heart, that would make that kind of statement.





Pj you are a finneyist, get over yourself and follow the God of the bible. Put away your finneyism and read and pray.







Mk 4:4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.







The owner of this heart would not accept the seed, the word of God.







16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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