Thread: Christ Himself Appointed Authority Over The Church
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Christ Himself Appointed Authority Over The Church
Posted : 6 Jan, 2012 11:06 AM
Ephesians 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. This is why it says: �When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.�
9 (What does �he ascended� mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
11 So CHRIST HIMSELF gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From Christ the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Spiritual Leaders in the Local Church: Who are they? What are they to do? What are we to think of them?
by Fred G. Zaspel
Chapter 1 - The Fact of Spiritual Rulers In The Local Church
or
Does anyone have spiritual authority?
The Issue - The first issue which must be clarified in approaching the subject of local church government is the question of authority. All agree that Christ is the Head and that He rules through His Word. But what about authority on the level of individual church function, teaching, and decision making? Does Christ delegate authority to anyone else? Many church groups are sure that He does not, that each man has equal authority before God by virtue of his individual priesthood. Our American spirit of democracy in the church and its "one man one vote" leaves us inclined to agree, at least in sentiment. We feel that we are answerable to God alone, and so authority over anyone in the very personal realm of the spiritual and religious is out of the question. Our beliefs and practices are matters between God and us individually, we tend to think; and in the affairs of the local church collectively, the majority rules.
But does Christ rule by majority vote? Is His will determined by popular consent? Or is it given once and for all in Holy Scripture to be faithfully ministered to His people by spiritual leaders within the church? These questions state the issue clearly.
The Evidence - The New Testament is clear in its teaching both by precept and example that there are certain men in the church who are invested with the responsibility of ruling. Christians are not blindly to accept false or unscriptural leadership, but they are nonetheless responsible to follow, obey, and honor their spiritual leaders.
This authority was first vested in Christ's apostles. They were the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20; cf. Matthew 16:18-19) and the very mouthpieces of God (Ephesians 3:5). Their word and example were and are binding (I Corinthians 4:17; 14:37; I Thessalonians 2:13; II Thessalonians 2:15). Their word settled all disputes in matters of faith and practice. They were Divine Legates, vicars of Christ, if you will. This is seen in Acts 6:1-7, when the apostles took charge to settle the first dispute in the church at Jerusalem, and throughout the epistles in their binding and authoritative commands to the churches.
That the apostles intended for others after them to have authority (albeit, not their unique apostolic authority) is evident by the titles given to these leaders, the descriptions of them, and the responsibilities laid upon them and given to the church with regards to them.
*Acts 20:28 designates the elders of the church at Ephesus as "overseers," those who manage the church.
*Romans 12:8 identifies those who are specially gifted by God to govern.
*The Greek word proistemi ("to rule, to preside") is found also in I Thessalonians 5:12 referring to those who are "over you" in the spiritual realm, "in the Lord." In I Timothy 3:4, 5, and 12 it refers to rule in the home by the father. Paul plainly states that some are gifted with the ability to exercise authority in the church.
*Similarly, I Corinthians 12:28 speaks of the one with the gift of "governments" (kubernesis). A "governor" (kubernetes) was a shipmaster, the one ruling, directing the ship (Acts 27:11; Revelation 18:17).
*I Corinthians 16:15-16 commands that certain ones in the church be the objects of submission.
*I Thessalonians 5:12-13 require that those in ruling positions ("those who are over you") in the church be held in special honor.
*I Timothy 3:5 draws a parallel between the fathers' "rule" in the home and the elders' "care" of the church. The implication here is that the elders' rule in the church is similar to a father's rule of his home.
*I Timothy 5:17 commands that double honor be given to those who "rule" well.
* Hebrews 13:7, 17, and 24 all speak of rulers in the church who are to be "regarded with favor," "followed" in matters of faith, "obeyed," and "submitted to." These men "rule" and are responsible for the spiritual welfare of the people. The writer of Hebrews is especially firm in this matter, for in all three of these verses the word translated "rule" is hegeomai, which speaks of "governing" from a position of recognized authority (cf. Matthew 2:6, 10:18; Luke 2:2; Acts 7:10).
Some object that spiritual authority is inconsistent with individual priest-hood. It is significant, however, that while no New Testament epistle emphasizes more the truth of individual priesthood, neither does any epistle stress more the obligation to obey spiritual rulers. The author of Hebrews saw no inconsistency. The doctrine of universal priesthood does not conflict with the duty of subjection to spiritual authority. Individual priesthood is not individual lordship.
*Finally, I Peter 5:1-4 speaks of those who lead and oversee the church as under-shepherds (i.e., delegated rulers under Christ). Also, by referring to himself as an "elder" of the church, Peter indicates here that the apostolic authority was in measure being passed to the eldership.
Conclusion - The point is simple: there are to be those in the local church who have authority, to whom honor, submission, and obedience is due. This is not a popular teaching in our day of individualism; indeed, this is regularly vigorously opposed or ignored altogether. But the Scriptural teaching on the subject is plain: Christ, the Head, rules His Church through His under-shepherds.
Nor is this a continuation of the erroneous sharp distinction between clergy and laity. Authority does not imply superior standing before God. Just as man and woman are on equal standing before God (Galatians 3:28) with woman being subordinate to the man (I Timothy 2:9-15), so Christians with equal access to God are commanded to be subordinate to their leaders.
An Observation - One observation concerning the contemporary idea of democratic rule in the local church deserves mention at this point. It is both Scripturally and logically impossible to speak of pastoral rule and democratic rule. The two simply cannot co-exist; they are mutually exclusive. The teaching of church democracy will be challenged at various points throughout this book, but for now it will suffice to say that if God has given authority to a select group of people, then by the nature of the case the authority cannot reside in the hands of the majority. Moreover, in a system of "one man one vote" no person has any more real authority than anyone else; all share it equally. This chapter has demonstrated that the New Testament writers speak clearly and forcefully of authority given to certain people above others. It is evident that this eliminates the idea that authority is spread out evenly over all. Democracy may be good in the arena of national politics, but it is never given to the Church. No other form of church government is stated in the New Testament than that Christ rules His Church through His appointed leaders.
Chapter 2 - The Identity of Spiritual Rulers In The Local Church or Who is to have this rule and authority?
We have seen that there are to be those in the local church who are in a position of spiritual authority, ruling and guiding the church. The next step is to identify these rulers. Who in the local church is given this authority?
Their Titles
Elders - The most common designation is the term "elder." The Greek word is presbuteros, whence comes the words "presbyter" and "Presbyterian." A "presbyter" is an elder. Spoken of in the plural ("elders") they are "the presbytery" (I Timothy 4:14). The word means, obviously, "an older man" but was used as a title for the leaders of the synagogue, whose duty it was to rule and teach. The early church evidently borrowed the title to describe those in the local churches who were likewise to rule and teach. In I Timothy 5:17 the elders are the "rulers" who by virtue of their position and work deserve double honor. That apostles had absolute authority in matters of faith and practice is clear, but in I Peter 5:1 the apostle Peter calls himself "also an elder" which seems to indicate that the apostles were elders when they remained in one locality (see also II John 1 where John says the same of himself). This verse further shows that the authority of the apostleship, in measure, was passed on to the elders. At any rate, the point is evident that elders have authority in the local church; they are the rulers.
Bishops - Another designation of the New Testament church rulers is "bishop" (I Timothy 3:1; Philippians 1:1). The Greek word is episkopos, hence the English "episcopal." The word means "overseer" (Acts 20:28), "guardian," or "manager." A bishop was a foreman, one in charge, a manager. When the Consul (president, emperor) of Rome placed a ruler in a newly captured land, that ruler was often referred to as an episkopos. Again the point is simply that the Biblical terminology itself indicates that there are in the local church certain men given special authority. These men are "bishops," those who "oversee" or "manage" the church's affairs.
Pastors - The term "pastor" is the most common word in our vocabulary today, but it is (perhaps surprisingly) the least common designation in the New Testament. The New Testament writers only once identify the local church leaders as "pastors" and that as it is associated with the additional title, "teachers" (Ephesians 4:11, "pastors-teachers"). The Greek term poimen means "shepherd," one who guides the sheep. The verb form (poimaino) is used only twice, describing the duties and responsibilities of the leaders they are to "shepherd" the church (Acts 20:28 and I Peter 5:2, KJV, "feed"). In Hebrews 13:20 and I Peter 2:25 Christ is called our "Shepherd," and in Revelation 2:27 it is prophesied that Christ will "shepherd [KJV, "rule"] with a rod of iron" (see also Revelation 12:5 and 19:15). In I Peter 5:4 Jesus is "the chief Shepherd" indicating that the "elders" (verse 1) are the under-shepherds who rule under Him with a delegated authority. Clearly, then, "pastors" rule; they rule in the church under Christ. They shepherd (are not shepherded by) the sheep.
Those whom the New Testament writers describe as having spiritual authority in the local church are designated elders, bishops, and pastors. These are the men who possess authority to rule.
Their Identification - A quick glance at the passages in which these titles are found will reveal that these titles are used interchangeably to refer to the same office and the same persons.
*In Acts 20:28 the "elders" (presbuteroi, verse 17) are said to be God-appointed "bishops" (episkopoi, "overseers") and are commanded to "shepherd" (poimaino, "feed" [KJV] or "rule") the church. Notice: elders are bishops who pastor. That is to say, an elder is a bishop is a pastor.
*The qualifications for "bishops" in I Timothy 3 are virtually identical to the qualifications for "elders" in Titus 1:6-9; it is obvious that Paul had the same office in mind in both passages.
*In Titus 1:5-7 "elder" and "bishop" are synonymous also.
*Finally, in I Peter 5:1-4 the "elders" are commanded to "pastor" (poimaino; KJV, "feed") and "oversee" (episkopeo) the church.
So the three terms refer to the same persons. A bishop is an elder is a pastor. There is no distinction between them. It is just as Scripturally accurate to address your pastor as "bishop" or "elder."(!) This book will normally use the term "elder," but it must be kept in mind that whichever term is used, the reference is to the same office. A pastor is a bishop is an elder.
(Incidentally, in keeping with the common understanding of the words, the term "office" is used here to refer to these leadership positions, but it should be recognized that the New Testament never refers to these as "offices" but as "services.")
Their Descriptions - While the terms consistently refer to the same office, Bible students have often pointed out that each term emphasizes a different aspect of the man and his work. The term "elder" emphasizes the man's character, what he is mature. "Bishop" emphasizes the man's function as ruler, overseer, manager. It stresses what he does. And "pastor" emphasizes the man's work of caring, guarding, protecting, feeding, and leading. It stresses how he leads and rules and his attitude in doing it. All three terms refer to the same office but merely emphasize a different aspect of it.
An Observation - Note that elders are pastors, and elders are rulers. There is a common misunderstanding, today, that eldership is a sort of third office in which elders are a board of men with more authority than deacons but less than pastors. Elders are often viewed as representatives from the congregation, elected for a specific term and for the purpose of representing the interests of the church to the pastor and counseling him on matters of concern to the church. In many other churches the elders are a board of ruling men set over the pastor. These ideas, however, reflect a misunderstanding of the New Testament elder. Pastors are elders. Elders are pastors. As we shall later see, elders have various functions and there are differences in honor as well, but all elders are pastors, nonetheless, and they must never be considered as anything less. Furthermore, none should be considered for eldership who is not a qualified elder-bishop-pastor.
Conclusion - The New Testament teaches that authority in the local church lies in the hands of the elders-bishops-pastors. To these men both Christ and His apostles have delegated authority, and obedience to them is required by those whom they lead. Elders (bishops, pastors) are to rule as Christ's under-shepherds.
Chapter 3 - The Authority of Spiritual Rulers In The Local Church or What is the sphere of their rule?
We have seen that the elders-bishops-pastors are given authority from Christ to rule His church. These and no others are commanded to rule and to be obeyed.
It is necessary to recognize, however, that there have been errors to either side of this. Many elders have failed to exercise the authority given them in their rule while others have clearly exceeded their bounds. The next step, then, is to determine the realm or sphere of their authority. That they have authority cannot really be questioned; precisely what type of authority they possess must now be determined also.
Surveying the Evidence - Some statements specify very clearly that the elders rule in the Word. I Timothy 5:17, for example, speaks of some elders who rule particularly by "laboring in the Word and doctrine." The writer to the Hebrews commands the believers to follow the faith of their rulers (13:7). This is the idea behind Paul's command to Timothy to "reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" (II Timothy 4:2). Elders rule in matters of doctrine, faith.
Elders are further given rule in other matters of a spiritual nature. That is, they are responsible to take the principles of the Word of God and apply them to specific matters of personal life. This is what Paul had in mind when he commanded the Thessalonian believers to regard highly those who are "over you in the Lord" (I Thessalonians 5:12). This is also the point of Hebrews 13:17 which commands believers, "obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves." The elders have authority in matters of faith and its related practice.
Finally, the New Testament extends this authority over the affairs of the church generally. This is clear from passages which speak of their "overseeing" or managing the church in general without mentioning specifics (Acts 20:28; I Peter 5:1-2). The elders are to be esteemed and held in high favor (I Thessalonians 5:12-13) and are to rule the church as they should rule their own house (I Timothy 3:4-5).
Conclusion - Elders are not given authority to tyrannically dictate in matters of no consequence. They are not authorized to give commands in trivial, non-moral matters. Neither are they permitted to demand total compliance in matters involving the Christian's liberty. Nor can their rule be followed when and if that rule is in conflict with the Word of God. Their authority is in the Word as it applies to matters of church and personal life and extends to the managing of the church in general. Therefore, the judgments of elders in regard to faith and its related practice are to be obeyed (of course, so long as such judgments are not in violation of the Word of God; cf. Acts 5:29). It would be in keeping with these principles to further give certain priority to their judgments in extra- scriptural matters of concern to the church (e.g., decisions regarding church organization, administration, etc.), although this privilege must not be abused.
Christ Himself Appointed Authority Over The Church
Posted : 6 Jan, 2012 04:13 PM
Agapeton what does Peter mean by these passages?
Do you know and understadn the biblical meanings of under-shepherd, overseerer, pastor, bishop, elder as Gd has so ordained and anointed in the curch to look after His sheep/flock?
I Peter 5:1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ�s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God�s flock that is under your care, watching over them�not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, �God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.�
Christ Himself Appointed Authority Over The Church
Posted : 6 Jan, 2012 08:46 PM
Christ is the head of every local church. There is no human head of the church.
The Bible is the only written creed for each local church, rather than a man-made written creed.
Each local church is autonomous and self-governing. No outside interference from others.
No organizational tie between local churches.
No organization larger than local churches.
The Bible uses Elder, Presbyter, Overseer, Bishop, Shepherd interchangeably and they all refer to a single office in the church.
Local churches appoint their own plurality of elders using 1 Timothy 3, and Titus 1 as guidelines for the qualifications.
Elders oversee only over the members of the local church, not members from outside congregations.
Elders were appointed in local churches during their first being founded. These people were NOT THEOLOGICALLY TRAINED AND WERE NEW TO THE FAITH.
People are taught false doctrine from their denominations, that the "office of Bishop" is a different office than the "office of Pastor" and the "office of Elder" and the "office of Steward". They are falsely taught that these are three distinct offices, rather than three descriptive terms that describe the same ONE office. The fact remains, that if these four terms all refer to the same office, then most denominational organizations make mush of the inspired pattern and are utterly false and to be rejected. A failure to recognize that the English terms "Elder and Presbyter come from the same Greek word "Presbureros". That the English terms "Overseer and Bishop come from the same Greek word "Episcopos". And that the English terms "Shepherd and Pastor come from the same Greek word "Poimen". Part of the confusion is that one Bible translation will consistently translation the Greek word "Presbureros" as "Elder, while another translation will render the same Greek word "Presbureros" as Presbyter. People simply do not look closely enough to notice what is really going on between translations.
Each of the three Greek words are translated into two English words, where one of these English word is a true translation and the other is a meaningless man-made ecclesiastical, church term invented by various churches. The Bible pattern for elders is absolutely foreign to most denominations as they rely heavily upon human creeds to set standards.
Elders must be men.
Elders must be married.
Elders must have children who are old enough to be believing Christians.
Elders must have PROVEN that they can keep their children under control WITHOUT REBELLION. [the big test is with teenagers]
Must be what "elder" implies: an older man of experience. Men under 40 years old are never called elderly. When 18 year old Mormon missionaries demand that a 70 year old man address them as "elder" when they knock on his door, it is as illogical as it is insulting! Calling anyone under 30 years of age and "elder" is a clear violation of what the word elder means!
Must have enough Bible knowledge to be able to refute false doctrine.
Here is Scripture supporting the office of the paid Overseer/Elder/Shepherd:
Wait for it....
Hold on.....
Don't blink or you'll miss it.....
Did you see it?
Too late.
You missed it.
No really.
I just posted it.
Ya just had to be there.
The Baptist church, for example, admits in their official creed book (The Hiscox Standard Baptist Manual), that new offices not found in scripture have been added long after the Bible was written:
"CHURCH OFFICERS: In the New Testament we find that in apostolic times, and for many years after, pastors and deacons only were known as permanent church officers. Others have been added at later times, for a variety of reasons." (The Hiscox Standard Baptist Manual)
"THE WIDER FELLOWSHIP OF BAPTISTS: Because churches are the only Christian organizations provided for in the New Testament, it may be said that they are the only ones really essential to the accomplishment of the purposes of Christ. Experience, however, has demonstrated that churches in fellowship with one another are able to fulfill the work of the gospel more effectively than churches alone." (The Hiscox Standard Baptist Manual)
What we observe in these two quotes from the Hiscox Standard Baptist Manual, is the following: First, they admit that new offices were added to the church many years after the Bible was completed. Second, they admit that local churches with no organizational tie between them, was the Bible pattern, but because of human wisdom, an organization was invented to tie local churches together on a global basis.
Elders LOOK TO, not TO OVERLOOK, or MANAGE. Shepherds FEED, NOT LEAD. DEACONS SERVE TABLES, NOT NEED TO BE SERVED. ELDERS COMMAND RESPECT, NOT RESPECTFULLY COMMAND....
Christ Himself Appointed Authority Over The Church
Posted : 6 Jan, 2012 09:29 PM
So are you disputing God's own words, and calling what HE says a lie???
Ephesians 4:11 So CHRIST HIMSELF gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the PASTOR and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From Christ the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Christ Himself Appointed Authority Over The Church
Posted : 6 Jan, 2012 10:28 PM
ETcallhome
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Christ Himself Appointed Authority Over The Church
Posted : 6 Jan, 2012 09:29 PM
So are you disputing God's own words, and calling what HE says a lie???
Ephesians 4:11 So CHRIST HIMSELF gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the PASTOR and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From Christ the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
ME: Et, sister, I already did this in your last topic. Remember?
Here lemme paste some of it.
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Obey and Submit...
Posted : 6 Jan, 2012 03:21 PM
Your post said: "until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming."
QUESTION: How do we know that these leaders are doing such things exactly? (Answer: Because BY THE BIBLE BEING FULLY WRITTEN AND FREELY ACCESSIBLE TO THE BELIEVER WE NOW KNOW "the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.")
THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF WHAT PAUL WAS WRITING THERE! GOD HAD GIFTED ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN THOSE TIMES AND HAVE IT RECORDED IN SCRIPTURE SO THAT WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM THE BIBLE. How do we know this? Because " ALL SCRIPTURE is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work"! 2 Tim. 3:16-17
He says: "But does Christ rule by majority vote? Is His will determined by popular consent? Or is it given once and for all in Holy Scripture to be faithfully ministered to His people by spiritual leaders within the church? These questions state the issue clearly."
QUESTION: What is the authority? Man or the Scriptures? Who is more adapted to show the truth and by whom? One PRIVATE INTERPRETATION?
Now, look at the message this guy is saying.
"The Evidence - The New Testament is clear in its teaching both by precept and example that there are certain men in the church who are invested with the responsibility of ruling. Christians are not blindly to accept false or unscriptural leadership,BUT THEY ARE NONETHELESS responsible to follow, obey, and honor their spiritual leaders."
So WHO IS TO BLAME IF THERE IS SOME BAD DOCTRINE OR FALSE TEACHING?
Good to know....
HE FURTHER SAYS: "This authority was first vested in Christ's apostles. They were the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20; cf. Matthew 16:18-19)
ME: Let's look at the text shall we?
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
SO this guy is saying that the APOSTLES WERE THE FOUNDATION OF THE CHURCH AND NOT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AS THE CORNER STONE?
WOW!
This guy Catholic?
Oh wait! He's Baptist.
Right?
Hold on a second!
SINCE WHEN ARE DENOMINATIONS ACCURATE SINCE THERE ARE SEVERAL DIFFERENT THEOLOGICAL SCHOOLS NOW THAT SPIT OUT PASTORS FASTER THAN.....
I don't know how fast....
but IT'S FAST!!!! lol
He goes on to say: " and the very mouthpieces of God (Ephesians 3:5)."
That's right! He does say that. God gave them the Words , gifts and deeds for us to learn from. How do we know this?
BECAUSE IT'S IN THE VERY EARLIER VERSE!
Eph 3:4 When YOU READ THIS, YOU CAN PERCEIVE my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.
Their word and example were and are binding (I Corinthians 4:17; 14:37; I Thessalonians 2:13; II Thessalonians 2:15).
1Co 4:17 That is why I sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.
WHY did he do that? Well, "1Co 4:16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me."
That pretty much should do the same thing with EVERY VERSE POSTED TO PROVE HIS STANCE SO FAR..
Their word settled all disputes in matters of faith and practice.
Actually, it wasn't their word, it was GOD'S WORD that settled disputes....
They were Divine Legates, vicars of Christ, if you will.
VICARS OF CHRIST? HOLY COW!! THAT IS WHAT THE CATHOLICS SAY TOO!
This is seen in Acts 6:1-7, when the apostles took charge to settle the first dispute in the church at Jerusalem, and throughout the epistles in their binding and authoritative commands to the churches.
Ironically, when they decided to do this one who served tables (diakonos, deacon comes from this) ENDED UP DOING MORE THAN THEY DID AT THAT TIME.
That the apostles intended for others after them to have authority (albeit, not their unique apostolic authority)....
UM, this guy a protestant or is he preaching anything but SOLA SCRIPTURA?
He says: Acts 20:28 designates the elders of the church at Ephesus as "overseers," those who manage the church.
Overseers isn't a leadership role. it is just that, one who sees and tries to fill the needs of others. a servant....
So, is this guy so far? Or shall i go on? Because i can...
But I'll stop here and let you chew on this for a while, sister.
Plus i have to go get my son. :)
By the way, In cases like this you shouldn't accept everything you read because someone has credentials in the faith. they can still be wrong. Pay attention to the messege AND RESEARCH IT.
Christ Himself Appointed Authority Over The Church
Posted : 7 Jan, 2012 08:49 AM
Beloved, what in the world is wrong with your posts anymore?... all that space in between makes it very difficult to read what it is you're saying.:zzzz:
