Many posts on a variety of threads indicate that we need to read more into words in the Bible...that words like 'all', "every", "world", etc have deeper meanings than what even English majors or Hebrew/Greek experts understand the words to mean.
Do you believe the Word of God requires a 'higher level of knowledge' to understand it?
"If God be the originator of language and if the chief purpose of originating it was to convey His message to humanity, then it must follow that He, being all-wise and all-loving, originated sufficient language to convey all that was in His heart to tell mankind.� Furthermore, it must also follow that He would use language and expect people to understand it in its literal, normal, and plain sense.� The Scriptures, then, cannot be regarded as an illustration of some special use of language so that in the interpretation of these Scriptures some deeper meaning of the words must be sought."� [Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism (Chicago: Moody Press, 1995), 81.]
I really don't know how to make this more plain to you. Literal does not mean "most basic". Understanding what a word means in it's context is not a call to some special higher level of learning. It's just a call to be truthful to the text. Stop making this out to be something that it's not please. For this discussion to be furthered at all, it would help if you stop misrepresenting the other side. If you don't understand, ask questions. If you do understand and are doing this on purpose, then please stop posting.
I did ask a question...do you have a real answer or will you continue to ignore the obvious? The words are in context within the sentences...within the presentations but you and others seem to think you have a special interpretation of these words.
And, despite your postings saying you've explained the meanings, it has not occurred.
No, you claim we think we have a special interpretation. See the difference? They are in context in your opinion. Sorry, but your opinion is not what matters. I'd rather be truthful to the text.
As far as explaining meanings. Any fool can understand what "all" means. The question is what does it mean in context. You would love to throw out context so that we can be "basic". I don't ever remember a call in scripture to be basic.
It's clear that you recognize the obvious rhetorical nature of the OPs entire post. Notice that she uses a noted dispensationalist as a source of reference. That in and of itself is telltale of the depths of her misunderstanding. The axe has already been laid to the root of dispensationalism's heretical tree by many biblical scholars and theologians. I suspect next the OP is going to tell us that the "rapture" is coming soon as well. :laugh:
This is the game that the OP loves to play page after page brother. It's all just literal plain sense language.. bla bla bla. However, only when she wants it to be that way.
Look at this dialogue that I had with her months ago when she claimed "God loves everyone - John 3:16.. hate is the absence of love.. God is love.." bla bla bla.
Bob said: "Since you can not harmonize your understanding of John 3:16 with a verse like this:
'As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.' Rom 9:13 - which illustrates God's hatred for individuals by name
and this:
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Ps. 5:5 - which illustrates God's hatred for groups of people by category
You have a glaring problem somewhere in your exegesis."
Here was the OP's response:
"Esau was in the history books when this statement was made."
So, "hate" was not to be taken in the plain literal sense and besides Esau was dead. Huh? What? What did that have to do with price of tea in China?
Notice certain key words in this passage: "wisdom in a mystery" "deep things of God" "hidden wisdom" "natural man doesn't get it" "spiritually discerned" "comparing spiritual things with spiritual", etc.
But the OP doesn't think any of this is actually true. It doesn't require any special knowledge, bla bla bla. Yet the word of God says directly that it does require something special. So, who are we going to believe? This unlearned OP or the Word of God?
1 Cor 2
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Which are in context within the verses, which are in context within the chapters, which are in context within the books, which are in context within the whole written counsel of God.
So, it seems there is just a wee bit more to it than this OP understands.
Then of course there is that tiny insignificant issue of Biblical hermeneutics. Shhhhhh... don't tell the OP. :laugh:
This form of theological hermeneutics in the mainstream Protestant tradition considers Christian Biblical hermeneutics in the tradition of explication of the text, or exegesis, to deal with various principles that can be applied to the study of Scripture. If the canon of Scripture is considered as an organic whole, rather than an accumulation of disparate individual texts written and edited in the course of history, then any interpretation that contradicts any other part of scripture is not considered to be sound. Biblical hermeneutics differs from hermeneutics and within traditional Protestant theology, there are a variety of interpretive formulae. Such formulae are generally not mutually exclusive, and interpreters may adhere to several of these approaches at once. These formulae include:[3]
THEOLOGICAL GROUPS OF PRINCIPLES:
The Election Principle
The Historical-grammatical principle based on historical, socio-political, geographical, cultural and linguistic / grammatical context
The Dispensation Principle or The Chronometrical Principle: "During different periods of time, God has chosen to deal in a particular way with man in respect to sin and man's responsibility."
The Covenantal Principle: "We differentiate between the various contracts that God has made with his people; specifically their provisions, their parties and their purposes."
The Ethnic Division Principle: "The word of truth is rightly divided in relation to the three classes which it treats, i.e. Jews, Gentiles and the Church."
The Breach Principle: Interpretation of a certain verse or passage in Scripture is aided by a consideration of certain breaches, either breaches of promise or breaches of time.
The Christo-Centric Principle: "The mind of deity is eternally centered in Christ. All angelic thought and ministry are centered in Christ. All Satanic hatred and subtlety are centered at Christ. All human hopes are, and human occupations should be, centered in Christ. The whole material universe in creation is centered in Christ. The entire written word is centered in Christ."
The Moral Principle
The Discriminational Principle: "We should divide the word of truth so as to make a distinction where God makes a difference."
The Predictive Principle
The Application Principle: "An application of truth may be made only after the correct interpretation has been made"
The Principle of Human Willingness in Illumination
The Context Principle: "God gives light upon a subject through either near or remote passages bearing upon the same subject."
SUB-DIVIDED CONTEXT/MENTION PRINCIPLES
The First Mention Principle: "God indicates in the first mention of a subject the truth with which that subject stands connected in the mind of God."
The Progressive Mention Principle: "God makes the revelation of any given truth increasingly clear as the word proceeds to its consummation."
The Comparative Mention Principle
The Full Mention Principle or The Complete Mention Principle: "God declares his full mind upon any subject vital to our spiritual life."
The Agreement Principle: "The truthfulness and faithfulness of God become the guarantee that he will not set forth any passage in his word that contradicts any other passage."
The Direct Statement Principle: "God says what he means and means what he says."
The Gap Principle:"God, in the Jewish Scriptures, ignores certain periods of time, leaping over them without comment."
The Threefold Principle:"The word of God sets forth the truths of salvation in a three-fold way: past - justification; present - sanctification/transformation; future - glorification/consummation."
The Repetition Principle:"God repeats some truth or subject already given, generally with the addition of details not before given."
The Synthetic Principle
The Principle of Illustrative Mention
The Double Reference Principle
FIGURES OF SPEECH GROUPS OF PRINCIPLES
The Numerical Principle
The Symbolic Principle
The Typical Principle: "Certain people, events, objects and rituals found in the Old Testament may serve as object lessons and pictures by which God teaches us of his grace and saving power."
OP's question"Do you believe the Word of God requires a 'higher level of knowledge' to understand it? "
YES, you need the illumination of the holy spirit. If you are not given the holy spirit by GOD, you can not believe, you can not understand scripture, you can do nothing, YOU are dead.
Bob said: "Since you can not harmonize your understanding of John 3:16 with a verse like this:
'As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.' Rom 9:13 - which illustrates God's hatred for individuals by name
and this:
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Ps. 5:5 - which illustrates God's hatred for groups of people by category
You have a glaring problem somewhere in your exegesis."
So, "hate" was not to be taken in the plain literal sense and besides Esau was dead. Huh? What? What did that have to do with price of tea in China?
*******
Me: �God hates sin and those who die in their sins will be separated from the love of God.�
Hate is the absence of love. �Since God is love, then the absence of God is hate. �
Sinners who do not accept Christ's sacrificial death will be forever separated from God...so god hates Esau because he is absent from God. �
God hates all sin.
When the literal sense makes sense, you don't have to look further to understand the verse(s). �In the case of Jacob and Esau, you have to look at the whole story to understand why He hated Esau.
