Author Thread: Half Truth/ Whole Truth
dljrn04

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Half Truth/ Whole Truth
Posted : 3 Aug, 2013 11:07 AM

HALF TRUTH/ARMINIANISM supposes that the Atonement of Christ is "not according to a certain and definite decree to save some, but was made according to a general, conditional offer of grace which God desired to make to all men absolutely and indiscriminately, 'who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth' (I Tim. 2:4). But, being conditional, the death of Christ does not infallibly secure the salvation of anyone. The word 'atonement' is not to be understood in the sense that it makes salvation actual, but that it merely provided a possible salvation for the whole human race: 'and He is the propitiation (provided remedy) for our sins, and not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world' (I John 2:2). This possibility remains even for the so-called reprobate: cf. Cain -- 'if thou doest not well, sin (a sin-offering) lieth at the door' (Gen. 4:7). In its extent, therefore, the atonement is universal: He died for all the ungodly; the gospel being for 'whosoever,' 'whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved,' (Acts 2:21). God loves everybody; He can hate nobody (John 3:16). The preaching of the gospel is grace for all who hear; for 'gospel' means 'good news'; but if the gospel provides salvation for the elect only, it cannot be good news to those for whom no possible provision of salvation has been made. This being so, the cross must be outfitted like a blank check, providing universal redemption, payable to the endorser, merely for his endorsement, which in turn completes the stipulated terms of the atonement." By reason of this the final effectuation of election and salvation depends upon the free will of man. As a result, all or none may be saved! "Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by?" (Lam. 1:12) is so understood as that it may be anything to anybody.



GOD"S TRUTH/ Biblical doctrine of particular atonement, which does more than to render salvation possible, but secures the actual salvation of those for whom Christ dies; and He died for those the Father gave to Him (John 17: 2, 12). In the same manner, that death is not for a vague, general "whosoever," but for "whosoever believeth" (3:16); and they only believe who were ordained to eternal life (Acts 13:48). This implies that the "whosoever shall call" must be the called according to His purpose and grace (II Tim. 1:9). Notice then, when the Scripture says that Christ died for the ungodly (Rom. 5:6), it does not say that He died for all the ungodly. Where the word "all" does appear in connection with the atonement of Christ, it has a meaning limited by the context. The arm of the Lord is not revealed to all (Is. 53:1). Why not? Because the Lord had sovereignly determined to harden and blind the rest so that they could not believe (John 12:37-40). In I Cor. 15:22 (Rom. 5:18) "All" means all in Christ; otherwise the Armenian will prove more than he wants to prove. In I Tim. 2:4 it is all classes of men. So with the word "any." Cf. II Pet. 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise (which is never made to the reprobate), as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." God is long-suffering to us (His elect); and is not willing that any of us should perish. Who are the "any?" the "us?" According to the context, the "beloved" of v. 1, the "beloved" of v. 8; He is not willing that any of His beloved should perish. So He is long-suffering over them. But take "any" in the unqualified, absolute sense, and the text is made to contradict other Scripture, where, for example, it says that God is "willing to show His wrath" upon the "vessels of wrath," and cause them under that wrath to end in destruction (Rom. 9:22). However, it is different with His "beloved." They shall never perish. Another distinction is to be noted in the word "world." Did Christ die for the whole world of men without exception? No, but for the world of "whosoever believeth" (John 3:16), for the world which has its sin actually and really "taken away" (1:29). The Lamb loves that world; He takes away its sin. But of the wicked world it is said, "your sin remaineth" (9:14). Their sins lie (crouch) at their own door, to pounce on them like a roaring lion, dragging them down to the pit of hell. For them the sin-offering and intercession of Christ are not, nor for the whole world of all mankind, but only for those the Father gave Him (17:9). But assuming He did die for absolutely the whole world, why does He not pray for it? "I pray for them; I pray not for the world." The truth of the matter is that there is an elect world, a world with its sin removed (1:29), and a "world of the ungodly" (II Pet. 2:5). Teach, however, that Christ died for all the sins of all men, and the following results: God demands the penalty for sin twice! -- once at the hands of His Son Who paid it all, and again at the hands of those for whom He died (now in hell, themselves paying that already canceled debt!). But Christ lays down His life exclusively for the sheep. To the rest He says, "Ye are not of My sheep" (John 10:15, 26). He does not lay down His life for them. Nor will it do to say that God originally intended to save all. For from the beginning it was not so: (Gen. 3:15). At the first, God put enmity between the children of God and the children of the devil. From the first, the cross divided all men into these two separate companies. Clearly, the cross was never intended to save the serpent's brood. For the cross sovereignly maintains the ordained enmity against the serpent's seed. And though temporal gifts flow from the cross, they are not a blessing, but a curse to that reprobate seed: "the curse of the Lord is in the house of the wicked; but He blesseth the habitation of the just. Surely He scorneth the scorners, but giveth grace unto the lowly" (Prov. 3:33ff.). The gospel itself must be and is to them a curse (II Cor. 2:15ff.), not a blessing. They "are perishing" (Gr.) because the cross is not saving to them (I Cor. 1:18). From this it should be plain that God does not love all without exception. Did God love Pharaoh (Rom. 9:17)? Did He love the Amalekites (Ex. 17:14ff.)? Did He love the Canaanites (Deut. 20:16)? the Ammonites and Moabites (23:3)? Does He love the workers of iniquity (Ps. 5:5)? Does He love the vessels of wrath (Rom. 9:22)? Did He love Esau (Rom. 9:13)? Does He love "the people against whom He hath indignation for ever" (Mal. 1:4)? What is the central purpose of the cross? To "save His people (and them only) from their sins."



Robert C. Harbach

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Half Truth/ Whole Truth
Posted : 3 Aug, 2013 11:15 AM

"Did God love Pharaoh (Rom. 9:17)? Did He love the Amalekites (Ex. 17:14ff.)? Did He love the Canaanites (Deut. 20:16)? the Ammonites and Moabites (23:3)? Does He love the workers of iniquity (Ps. 5:5)? Does He love the vessels of wrath (Rom. 9:22)? Did He love Esau (Rom. 9:13)? Does He love "the people against whom He hath indignation for ever" (Mal. 1:4)"?



Listen -- I don't care what you say or what your BIBLE says -- "God loves everybody" :laugh:

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dljrn04

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Posted : 3 Aug, 2013 11:20 AM

:zzzz:





The God of the bible is very clear what his will is.





All i can think of is Psalm 2



1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people murmur in vain.

2 The kings of the earth band themselves, and the Princes are assembled together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

3 Let us break their bands, and cast their cords from us.

4 But he that dwelleth in the heaven shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure, saying,

6 Even I have set my King upon Zion mine holy mountain.

7 I will declare the decree: that is, the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt crush them with a scepter of iron, and break them in pieces like a potter�s vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, ye kings: be learned ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord in fear, and rejoice in trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, when his wrath shall suddenly burn. Blessed are all that trust in him.

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Posted : 3 Aug, 2013 11:26 AM

Wait a minute, that's just your interpretation. :laugh:



God would NEVER LAUGH at anyone. He would never hold anyone in derision (Contemptuous ridicule or mockery.Synonyms: mockery - ridicule - scoff - taunt - gibe - jeer - mock)



You must be reformed because somehow I know you twisted those verses :laugh:



Haven't you read John 3:16? and don't you know that Calvin killed Servetus? :nahnah:

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Posted : 3 Aug, 2013 11:36 AM

The Armin ism title is just a number on of satan's tactics to create strife.



It is very simple to Say love also hates is to say you do not know Love.

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dljrn04

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Posted : 3 Aug, 2013 11:43 AM

hey pj welcome back, i see you didn't lose your one liner confusions.

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dljrn04

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Posted : 3 Aug, 2013 11:45 AM

"Wait a minute, that's just your interpretation.







God would NEVER LAUGH at anyone. He would never hold anyone in derision (Contemptuous ridicule or mockery.Synonyms: mockery - ridicule - scoff - taunt - gibe - jeer - mock)







You must be reformed because somehow I know you twisted those verses







Haven't you read John 3:16? and don't you know that Calvin killed Servetus? "







:ROFL:





That is awesome.

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