A. Does the U.S. Constitution trump the Holy Bible? Feel free to quote from Scripture to support your view that those things you mentioned fall under the jurisdiction of the civil government.
See Romans 13:1-7
No, the Constitution doesn't trump the Bible but the Bible tells us to live under the authorities God has placed over us. Therefore, the Bible tells us to live by and honor the laws of this land. It is only when the law is such that we are required to commit acts of evil in directly conflict to Gods law.
For example, Nazi Germany, people were required to turn in the Jews so that they could be slaughtered by the government. In that case, defiance would be justified.
Also, laws that are designed to disadvantage a particular group would be umbilical such as making it difficult to impossible for blacks to vote such as existed in the early-mid 20th century America.
>>>Using your own argument, you will quickly find that to grant extorted tax dollars to one socialist program will lead to granting tax dollars to another socialist program and on and on it goes. (witness the current state of the U.S.) It's a slippery slope.
That is why having a lopsided "balance of power" is a bad thing in the congress. It allows one side to railroad bad laws through without giving it fair review by those chosen to represent the interests of the people of this country. When Obama first got in to office, democrats had full control of our government and were able force through some very bad legislation. ( yes, Republicans are equally guilty of doing the same thing when they have power.) When the power is balanced the way it is supposed to be, laws that are more fair are passed.
No government created by man is perfect and as long as they are run by man, there will be corruption.
>>>D.Under your premise, who determines which socialist programs should get funding? And, by what objective standard is that determined?
As Christians, at least in this country, all we can do it make sure our voices are heard to prevent bad laws from getting passed. VOTE. Contact your Representative and Senator when laws are being considered that you have concerns about.
YOU have a voice in this country. By failing to use it, you let other decide for you. It is OUR collective voices that decide what programs succeed.
My point is that if managed correctly, it can benefit the country as a whole. The US Constitution itself makes provisions for the government to make investments in its future...
Article 1 Sect 8 : 8 To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Taking note of "Progress of Science and useful Arts".
Well, the only way I know of to do this is to tax people, and give it to those who will study such things... This can only be done through socialist type programs. You can't restrict such programs to established well-off entities because you never know what social class the next great mind will come from. Fresh minds are often needed to get fresh ideas.
The programs I totally object to are ones that grant luxuries to those who don't earn it. I have no problem with the government providing job training and education so people can take care of themselves. However, I agree that the government has way overstepped this and gone into forced charities.
Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 19 Mar, 2014 03:13 PM
Matthew 5:17-18 ESV
�Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
1 John 2:3
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
Romans 7:7 ESV
What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, �You shall not covet.�
Hebrews 10:28 ESV
Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
2 Timothy 3:16 ESV
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
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To sum this all up. The Old Testament still applies.
Are we bound to the ceremonies of the old covenant then? NO, but it is important to understand them and how they applied and in what manor they foreshadowed the Christ.
Read Hebrews chapters 8-10.
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To directly answer your questions:
Is there a need today for the function of 'The High Priest' ?
Most definitely YES YES YES.
Christ is the eternal high priest that intercedes on my behalf.
Is there a need for a 'worship' leader or worship band ?
This is just nit picking. how about well call them an organizer instead. If we went to church and everybody was singing a different song a the same time, it would be chaos. So, in order to not have chaos during our time of worship, it needs to be coordinated. This is the "job" of the "worship leader"
Is there a need today for any of the Old Covenant sacrifices ?
YES YES YES YES YES.
Daily I need the sacrifice Jesus the Christ as my high priest made for my sins.
Is there a need for tithing ?
Yes. How else is a church to be funded in order for them to reach out and feed the poor? There are many references regarding giving to the church throughout the new testament.
Is there a need for the material temple ?
There is a new temple. Our bodies now server as the temple.
Is there a need for anyone to fulfill the prophecies concerning the Messiah ?
Yes, there is a need for someone to do this. Jesus did this and he was someone.
Is there any need for the function of the Levite or the Levitical order ?
Is there any need for the Urim and Thumimm ?
Regarding these two... I already made the statement that it is important to understand what the significance of these were so we have a better understanding of everything Christ fulfilled.
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But is knowledge of all these things required?
No. What is required is Faith in Jesus as the Christ who died for your sins so that you may be sanctified.
I will say it is good to know what your faith represents. I don't follow the Christian buffet taking only what I want and discarding the rest. EVERY word from God is beneficial.
Do I practice the ceremonies of the old testament? Not directly but I honor what they were and what they represented. For example, with Easter coming, it is good to go over what Passover was and it's significance and how it DIRECTLY relates to the Christian faith.
Christ was the blood of the lamb. By accepting his sacrifice in place of my own punishment for sin, I spread his blood on the doorposts of my heart so when judgment comes, I will be passed over.
So you see, the old is not gone, its significance still apply. What changed is how we observe.
I'm coping and pasting this... I originally posted this on my facebook page....
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Vocabulary seems to be a big issue from both sides. So here are a few definitions... let�s see what people say.
Regulated Capitalism
(late 20th century US Economy - intent rather than opinion of how well it worked)
Each receives equal opportunity but the rewards go to those who put in effort and succeed.
CHARITY
Those who succeed VOLUNTEER their resources, time and effort to help others who want to succeed.
Communism
The efforts of all go to all. Rewards are evenly distributed to the group for the groups successes regardless of individual effort.
Socialism
FORCED CHARITY imposed on successful to be given to less successful regardless of the recipients desire to actually put in effort to succeed.
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It seems to me the far right equates Socialism with Communism and the far left says socialism is just charity. Both sides are wrong. Its not charity if its required and Socialism doesn't disregard individual success like communism. It does however feel like being punished if you succeed as you are now required to support those who don't care to.
Socialism if managed correctly can be a good thing. There does however need to be limits and expectations on those receiving the benefits.
Examples of good socialists programs....Government Education Grants... Yep, those are socialist programs. That's my tax money that I am required to pay going to help somebody else succeed... but like I said, its a good thing as it promotes education and economic growth for the nation as a whole. I also expect the recipient of that grant to contribute back once they finish school.
Bad socialist program - any program that grants the luxuries of successful life to those who don't earn it... Obama phone anyone? -- sorry, nobody "deserves" a cell phone. Nobody is entitled to a $250,000 home.
--- I can't get into health care, it was messed up before Obama got to it... so lets try to leave that one off. ( Child immunizations with no ins... $50 with Ins... $725... say what? - true story- now everybody is required to have ins? and that helps this problem somehow? totally different topic though)
Our current president has passed a bunch of bad socialist programs giving people luxuries I had to earn and still have to pay for... There seems to be disconnect in people knowing the difference between necessities and luxuries.
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Biblical concepts..
The words of Jesus regarding him telling people that they need to sell their possessions and give to the poor. Here, Jesus is talking about charity. Both the old and new testaments talk about not profiting from our brethren. Again, its talking about charity. For example, both of us being Christians, I should not loan you money and charge interest to help you pay your electric bill. Its better to just pay it for you with the expectation that you will try harder to not need that same help again and again.
The Bible also talks about business relationships in such that capitalism is the way to go. To buy and sell for profit is a good thing and a way to make a living. In these relationships, the bible tells us not to defraud each other to make a profit but to be honest in our dealings.
The real point. Stuff/Wealth is not where your heart should be. Make an honest living and help those in need when you can.
Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 18 Mar, 2014 04:41 PM
>>Might i ask you,where would i find an ASSISTANT pastor in the Word of GOD.
And what was Arron to Moses besides his brother?
Legalistic following to the letter of the law misses the point. If you follow the idea of having a hierarchy in Church leadership as is advised in Exodus, then where is the sin in having an assistant pastor?
Not all churches I've been to have an assistant pastor. That position usually only exists in larger churches.
Yes, Christ fulfilled the law. This statement means the imagery established in the ceremonial laws came to fulfillment. Christ did not do away with the law and by no means did the definitions of right and wrong change with the coming of the Christ.
To tell me that the advise given on how to live and organize your life/business/church outlined in the old testament no longer apply is the same as telling me that the 10 commandments no longer apply because they are not repeated exactly in the new testament.
The real point is that the concept of church hierarchy is outlined in the Bible. The larger the church, the larger the hierarchy needs to be. So while a church with 20 members doesn't need an assistant pastor, a church with 1000 members probably needs one or more. I think the problem here is you are getting hung up on titles.
To illustrate the problem with titles, if you look at the different branches of the the US military, the various ranks have names but the names are different in the different branches. Along with those ranks, they have what is called a pay grade. E1, E2, E5, WO-1 WO-2, O-1, O-2.... These are consistent regardless of branch.
Example:
Navy O-1 is Ensign
Army O-1 is 2nd Lieutenant
These are the same rank. If you get hung up on titles, you may miss the fact that they are the same thing. To continue the problem with being hung up on titles, consider these:
Navy O-6 Captain
Army O-3 Captain
Here, we have very different ranks but both have the title of Captain. A Navy Captain outranks an Army Captain by 3 ranks.
So don't get hung up on titles. What is important is the principal of the hierarchy regardless of what names the different positions are given.
Elders or pastor SHEPHERDING the flock of GOD,what does the NEW COVENANT say about this
Posted : 17 Mar, 2014 10:10 PM
Interesting posts from everybody.
Personally, I have never been to a church that had only a pastor. Almost all the churches I have attended have a pastor, deacons, elders, assistant pastors, individual ministry leaders, etc.
This structure does not come out of the Catholic church but rather out of Exodus 18.
This structure just works. Is works in the church as well as it does in business. Businesses have a CEO, a broad, and a hierarchy of managers. The pastor is NOT the end all be all of the church but simply provides direction like the CEO of a business. The pastor is also the figure head and bears the most burden as anything that happens in the church comes back on him in the eyes of the public. And when pastors themselves do something wrong, it reflects badly on the entire church.
It is not a one man show. If you attend such a church as to have a one man show, I would strongly advise to find a different church.
Personally, I would be very cautious about being individually contacted by somebody who has a long list of all the good things they are doing expressing an interest in a relationship... even if they include that they are struggling. We are all struggling with something...
If a christian is struggling and needs support, that is what the BODY is Christ is all about. They should surround themselves with a multitude of counselors ( there is a struggling with faith forum ).
Making friends to me, doesn't start with boasting. It starts by saying "hi". The details of our lives are relieved as time passes and the friendship develops. That way, the fruits are seen and you don't have to just take my word for it.
Very well said DontHitThatMark. I think you you did a very good job pointing out the issue. The real question is why do you want to get a tattoo?
To be cool or to conform to the ways of the world, local culture, to make yourself more attractive, etc. is definitely a no-go. "Everybody is doing it" has always been the worst excuse ever...
Besides, at least where I live, 9 out of 10 people have tats... I think its more unique to not have one. Want to stand out, don't have a tattoo. ( and if I condemned people for getting/having tats, I wouldn't have any friends at all... )... and no, I don't have one.
Good reasons to get one? How about as a reminder of a positive life changing thing... a verse that has special meaning... Anything that will bring glory to God or direct the attention of those admiring your tat toward God... Something that will provide an opportunity to minister to others.
I agree that adultery occurs...mental or otherwise.
The main point of that verse (Matthew 5: 28) however was to illustrate how hopelessly sinful we are even if we physically follow the letter of the law outwardly. It was not intended as a means to avoid counsel or friendships with members of the opposite sex. But yes, the danger is there.
Not meeting one-on-one, including friends, and meeting in public places are things we can do to avoid providing opportunities for the flesh. There is nothing wrong with having friends of the opposite sex. Even Jesus had female friends and counseled them. Every occurrence however was in public and usually surrounded by his close friends ( the disciples ).
chaperoned isn't a requirement but if somebody feels they need one to keep themselves from going to far...
Also, it can help keep from sending the wrong message. If you don't want things to move to fast, it's generally a good idea not to provide opportunities for things to go in that direction before you are ready.
Religious or not, if you don't what things to go in that direction, its a good idea to keep friends close by.
