Thread: A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
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A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 20 Aug, 2012 03:52 AM
Brothers and Sisters,
We get all confused as to what submission is in the bible, right?
I was just posting on a thread and I had to hit the submit button. Anyone here have to hit the submit button as well?
What are we doing when we hit the submit button?
We are offering freely our thoughts and feeling on a certain topic, right?
It makes sense now and this has been my sucess in my relationship my with feincee.
She offers her advice , opinion, feelings etc to me and because I love her I consider and listen to her submitted thoughts.
Could submission be as simple as this? YES
But also from a mans point validating her submitted thoughts and from her point submitting thoughts that will easily be recieved.
Many times we out of our great need to be heard try to force our thoughts on another. This is not submission. Like here their are guidelines we are called to follow in comunicating.
For me in my relationship I want to hear her thoughts because i love her. My problem is that she many times holds back on her thoughts because she is fearful of hurting me. She tries to protect me from her feelings. I had this problem with my previous relationship.
This time I am a strong man and once she shares with me I (do not) react out of pride or feeling of rejection to her and can show her compassion and love instead.
Whenever she withholds sharing with me, she limits my being able to express love to her in what she is feeling.
Also God has called a mans wife to be his helper and if she holds back in submitting her thoughts how can she be his help?Being a Husbands helper is not going and doing it by your self. That breakes down unity and seperates you from oneanother.
But women have to remember your words need to come to us with ((((((respect)))))))). Many times your words come in derission or in a form of a command. When you come to a man without respect you will never be heard but you will only push away the man you seek to help. Your attitude toward him is everything.
This I believe is the leading cause of abuse in relationships a woman who does not know how to approace a wounded man. Women who put their men on the defense and ultimatly at war with you.
Its the difference between telling ( trying to be powerful over him) or in submission( gently submitting your advice and thoughts) A angry abusive man is a man who has been belittled all of his life and his wife belittles him as well. A abusive man is so insecure and despretly needs help from a good woman, his wife.
His abuse is his way to feel powerful because deep down in side he feels powerless. But he is to afraid to look at his powerlessness. If you ladies understood the motive behind abuse maybe you could be a better helper to him.
Its not to late to be his helper, The helper God has called you to be...
You can go to your man and ask forgiveness for your continues rejection of him and ask forgiveness for your dissrespect to him.
Men you need to go to your wife and ask forgiveness for being abusive due to your insecurities and weakness.
If a Husband or wife starts here, their is hope for you. If you need further help just ask me and i would love to do so.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 27 Aug, 2012 04:14 AM
GUD,
First I find it interesting that you and some of the others who love to comment dont have any of your own threads. I looked through the first 5 pages of all of the catigories but found none. It seems some people only seek to defend and not teach.
You see I am not about being right or proving you wrong but about teaching truth and Godly principles. That life might happen in the people you and I seek to serve. Or are you just serving your own ego?
Willb has already disscredited himself by being banned here. Why, because our lives before oneanother is not about cold, ridgid truth. Its about walking in the Spirit and not fulfilling the desires of the flesh.
This can look like it is being acheived by will power or by Spirit power. So what power drives you?
You said I havent defended Gods position of headship and submission through scripture. Well I am just gearing up and will be moving this thread once again to another location as this one is complete in all that I hoped to accomplish here.
This thread was to only present the practicle side of Gods good plan for a marriage. My next thread will dell deeper into scripture and the doctrinal side of this good principle.
Look forward to your continual dissagreement. I truly believe like Paul where he had scales on his eyes and Jesus had to remove the scales. He too needs to remove the scales from your eyes and many others who have a prejudice.
I know God is using your zealousness but like my self who was much like you and others here I needed to learn the Spirit of things. I needed to learn the relationship behind the truth.
We can agree God is eternal, Jesus is eternal, The Word of God is eternal. As I have said before your understanding has grown today from where you used to be just as mine has. What does this mean? We have much to learn dont we?
We are all on this journey together. We will arive when we are glorified in our bodies and then still be learning of Gods eternal Glory, Right?
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 27 Aug, 2012 04:40 AM
LTM, it is possible that in giving a defense, one can also be teaching. That is the case here. You have misrepresented the other side, whether on purpose or not. I felt that it needed to be pointed out that contrary to what you stated, the other side has not argued against unity and it's unfair to say they have. They have just argue against the idea that unity can only be gained and maintained by straying from the scriptures.
You say you are not about being right but about teaching truth. Should they not be the same? Sure if being right is just to boost one's ego it's wrong. However, I wouldn't look back on my posts in this thread and say that I am doing it for that reason. I have been crystal clear that my intentions have been to defend the word of God. I am asked if I am serving my own ego after made a post correcting your mischaracterization of the opposing argument. That's a little harsh don't you think? I could easily turn this around on you and ask why are you defending yourself now because you claim you are only here to teach. You see? It works both ways. It's a silly discussion to get into. I corrected a mistake of yours and that should be fine. You should want to accurately represent the other side.
I am not speaking of a cold rigid truth. You said that my side is against unity. I pointed out that was false. I am not concerning myself right now with whether you did so intentionally or not. I was simply correcting the error. We should all be okay with correction when it is needed.
What power drives me? Again I simply corrected an error of yours. Let's not make this a bigger issue than it is.
Yes I have stated that you haven't defended your view from scripture. You seem to be implying you will do this in the next thread. I look forward to seeing that.
I look forward to the docrinal side. If you will remember, I already admitted to there being some decent practical information in the post. I just took issue with you redefining submission.
We shall see if the scales will be removed in your next thread. :glow:
"I know God is using your zealousness but like my self who was much like you and others here I needed to learn the Spirit of things. I needed to learn the relationship behind the truth."
Readers will take note of where ego is involved. The continual theme in here is that no one has caught up to you unless they agree with you.
Yes we have much to learn but the fact that I have grown from where I started has nothing to do with who is right on this issue. Surely you can admit that.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 27 Aug, 2012 07:43 AM
GUD,
"Yes we have much to learn but the fact that I have grown from where I started has nothing to do with who is right on this issue. Surely you can admit that. "
No, Brother. Its a matter of perspective. I know many christians will call me a heritic for saying this.
The bible is not black and white, up and down. It is and it isnt.
I know you going to jump on me for double talk. I used to think black and white about everything in the bible until I learned not to just read words on a page but to really listen to the words, to listen to the Spirit of God in the words.
We differ in our approach to truth. No one is greater or more learned we are just who we are in our approach to Jesus who is truth.
The point I was making in your journey of understanding truth, is that we all have a starting place and we are all in differing places maturuty wise, Right?
You had to grow and mature to the place you are today , right? Just as I did..So when you began their were things beyond your understanding at the time, right? Just like me....
Im only saying this as a statement of reality not to elivate my self or belittle you.
I know their are things beyond my understanding. Like in the area of money. I would never try teaching concerning money beyond the basics.
This understanding of headship and submisssion and the Husband /wife relationship is something I place great study and dilligence for many many years.
I have poured over them and meditated on them for many many hours. I continue to do so because it is something very close to my heart to understand this.
I dont know what you investment of time in understanding them is only you know. How close this is to your heart. I could never judge your desire in understanding them. Only you know. Only you know your investment. Only you know the real life experience you have had to learn these truths.
For me beside knowing God and investing my energy to do so this ranks second to that. This is a truth second to my heart
only to knowing God. That is how passonite I am in knowing and undertanding this truth.
Passion that is expressed in my deep relationship with God and now expressed in my deep relationship with faiths77 my bride.
Your dealing with a very passionate man on this topic.
I know what I believe needs to backed up with scripture. Since this is a revelation given by God to me in understanding, now I have to do the work of finding supporting scripture.
I know the bible supports its self and always will. When you made the statement that I am unable to provide scripture to support my conclusion you are right.
But not for long. Now that I have the revelation I have the duty to support it through Gods Word and if I am unable to do so. I would gladly abandon it. I am confident that I will be able to show in scripture that headship/submission is all about unity and not about who makes the decisions or a wife having to obey her husband.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 27 Aug, 2012 09:39 AM
I am thankful that you have admitted that you cannot support your view from scripture. I am also thankful that you realize that we must test all things with scripture. Surely you know what a dangerous position you are in now with being so convicted yet not having the backing with scripture. This is what happens when people think they are getting revelations from the Holy Spirit that don't line up with scripture. They back themselves into a corner. I don't say these things to be mean, but they have been self-evident throughout the thread and I am glad the truth has finally come out.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 27 Aug, 2012 10:24 AM
Im not saying,, their is not any evidence in scripture.
I have studied the scripture for many years and I am confident scripture will support what I have been sharing.
What I am simply saying is I have yet to compile the scripture. When i am done doing so then I will present my findings.
But I would never make a claim blindly. My claim is based on many years of study of who God is.
Does this clarify for you what I said?
It seems you are very eager to prove me wrong and that is fine. But my journey of discovery is my own and mine alone.
Whoever seeks to join me in discovering is welcome.
Everyone has their own mind to make up and I would never begrudge anyone their faith.
Since faith is only measurable by the individuals understanding of who God is.
You know as I do, their are other topics that are readily debated as well, so anyones debate of me does not effect my Fatih in what I believe. As I know my debate does not effect change in anothers faith.
It is only the Spirit of God who leads individuals. Not I or not you.
I hope we can agree upon that.
So I dont worry about results I only proclaim what God has showen me. I leave the results up to Him.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 27 Aug, 2012 10:32 AM
It's not about proving you wrong so much as it is about defend scripture. Even you admitted you will back away from your ideas if the scriptural support isn't there. You started out arguing that your ideas were biblical and I am saying that I am thankful for your admission that you cannot defend them with scripture. Please don't take this harshly but all the talk about perspective is mostly irrelevant. We are simply talking about truth.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 27 Aug, 2012 11:17 AM
GUD,
You missunderstand me. And their is nothing I can do about that. This is my Last message on the thread.
I tried to close it down before but with no luck. I believe in responding to people to show respect but I see that I have to just leave it and let you have the last word if you desire.
Since this was the post I started I thought it fitting that I ended it.
Anyone want to have the final word feel free to do so......
Oh .....and also to defend my bride to be...You must know we are getting married because we (are) in a greement on everything.
Its not the other way around. I never need to convince her of anything she Amens my thoughts and I Amen hers.
That is what I have desired for so long. Complete agreement and unity. This has been our experince for the past 19 months of relationship.
She is a great woman and greatly to be praised by her husband and one day by our children. A true rare Gem...
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 29 Aug, 2012 06:30 AM
I am opining my Post back up to ask a question to the Ladies of this site. ( Only ladies Please )
In Ephesian 6:1 You have Paul writing to children to obey their parents. The Word he uses is below.
hoop-ak-oo'-o
From G5259 and G191; to hear under (as a subordinate), that is, to listen attentively; by implication to heed or conform to a command or authority:�hearken, be obedient to, obey.
In Ephesians 5:22 You have Paul writing to wives to submit to their husbands. The word he uses is below.
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey:�be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
It seems the popular thinking that these terms apply the same in both situations with a wife and a child even though Paul gives us differing words with slightly differing meanings but close.
If you think about it Ladies a husband who has the athority to make the final decisions can make whatever decisions he wants, right?
And you have to obey him, Right?
Even if your husband makes a selfish decision you have to obey, this is according to modern thinking, right?
Is this Godly thinking? Does this bring unity in a marriage? Would this make you feel safe and loved Ladies? Does this build trust , Ladies?
Or
A husband who determines that all decisions will be joint decisions and the tie breakers are in Gods hands. A husband who gives athority to be unified with his wife in living life together. Are we not one day going to rule and rein with Christ?
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 29 Aug, 2012 06:48 AM
You're reaching...and you know you can't defend it so you ask for ladies only. You really expect them to believe that "making an appointment" and "agreeing" are the same thing? Have some respect for the women here. Stop trying to lead them with your fantasies about what you think a marriage should be. You've already admitted that you cannot defend your view with scripture. You posted the meaning of hupotasso, which means to be subject to. Then you say, BUT isn't this mean and division causing. That's not the question. The question is and always will be, what is biblical. It's time you start respecting the women here. If you want to lead your wife-to-be away from the truth fine. Stop trying to confuse the others. It shows a level of immaturity in your Christian life. Despite what you think, none of my posts in here have been with the intention of being mean to you. I'm just sick of your lack of care for the truth. Your vain imaginations about what you wish the scriptures would say are irrelevant. It is sinning to know that the scriptures teach against what you are teaching...and not to care. Again.....please start respecting these ladies. I know you will come back saying you only wanted ladies to reply. You will probably even report me. You just want to be protected from the men who will give you godly correction. You want free range to confuse the women here. I am sick of it to be honest. This is not of God.
