Thread: A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
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A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 20 Aug, 2012 03:52 AM
Brothers and Sisters,
We get all confused as to what submission is in the bible, right?
I was just posting on a thread and I had to hit the submit button. Anyone here have to hit the submit button as well?
What are we doing when we hit the submit button?
We are offering freely our thoughts and feeling on a certain topic, right?
It makes sense now and this has been my sucess in my relationship my with feincee.
She offers her advice , opinion, feelings etc to me and because I love her I consider and listen to her submitted thoughts.
Could submission be as simple as this? YES
But also from a mans point validating her submitted thoughts and from her point submitting thoughts that will easily be recieved.
Many times we out of our great need to be heard try to force our thoughts on another. This is not submission. Like here their are guidelines we are called to follow in comunicating.
For me in my relationship I want to hear her thoughts because i love her. My problem is that she many times holds back on her thoughts because she is fearful of hurting me. She tries to protect me from her feelings. I had this problem with my previous relationship.
This time I am a strong man and once she shares with me I (do not) react out of pride or feeling of rejection to her and can show her compassion and love instead.
Whenever she withholds sharing with me, she limits my being able to express love to her in what she is feeling.
Also God has called a mans wife to be his helper and if she holds back in submitting her thoughts how can she be his help?Being a Husbands helper is not going and doing it by your self. That breakes down unity and seperates you from oneanother.
But women have to remember your words need to come to us with ((((((respect)))))))). Many times your words come in derission or in a form of a command. When you come to a man without respect you will never be heard but you will only push away the man you seek to help. Your attitude toward him is everything.
This I believe is the leading cause of abuse in relationships a woman who does not know how to approace a wounded man. Women who put their men on the defense and ultimatly at war with you.
Its the difference between telling ( trying to be powerful over him) or in submission( gently submitting your advice and thoughts) A angry abusive man is a man who has been belittled all of his life and his wife belittles him as well. A abusive man is so insecure and despretly needs help from a good woman, his wife.
His abuse is his way to feel powerful because deep down in side he feels powerless. But he is to afraid to look at his powerlessness. If you ladies understood the motive behind abuse maybe you could be a better helper to him.
Its not to late to be his helper, The helper God has called you to be...
You can go to your man and ask forgiveness for your continues rejection of him and ask forgiveness for your dissrespect to him.
Men you need to go to your wife and ask forgiveness for being abusive due to your insecurities and weakness.
If a Husband or wife starts here, their is hope for you. If you need further help just ask me and i would love to do so.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 05:52 AM
Their is this wrong thinking concerning headship. Many men think headship is about their making the final decision on a matter. This is problematic and wrong.
Heres is what Amos 3:3 asks.......3Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Now for all you greek and hebrew lovers here are the definitions.
Walk.......
yaw-lak'
A primitive root (compare H1980); to walk (literally or figuratively); causatively to carry (in various senses):� X again, away, bear, bring, carry (away), come (away), depart, flow, + follow (-ing), get (away, hence, him), (cause to, make) go (away, -ing, -ne, one�s way, out), grow, lead (forth), let down, march, prosper, + pursue, cause to run, spread, take away ([-journey]), vanish, (cause to) walk (-ing), wax, X be weak.
Together.......
yakh'-ad
From H3161; properly a unit, that is, (adverbially) unitedly:�alike, at all (once), both, likewise, only, (al-) together, withal.
Agreed.......
yaw-ad'
A primitive root; to fix upon (by agreement or appointment); by implication to meet (at a stated time), to summon (to trial), to direct (in a certain quarter or position), to engage (for marriage):�agree, (make an appoint (-ment, a time), assemble (selves), betroth, gather (selves, together), meet (together), set (a time).
So here we have scripture to confirm or deny thought on other scripture, Right?
So if Amos 3:3 rejects the practicallity that two can walk together if not agreed.
This does not dismiss the agreement a wife might have with her husband or a husband might have with his wife to permit the other to make a decision.
Let me explain it more clearly. A wife can agree to permit her husband to make a decision on a matter and a husband might agree to permit his wife to make a decision on a matter.
A team that has trust will do this. Trust the other to make a unilatteral decision for the good of the whole. In this we still find agreement. Agreement to give power and decision making to the other.
The yakh'-ad is preserved. Unity
If a husband feels he has the right to make a decision apart from the blessing of his wife he is mistaking and breaking down the yakh'-ad of their relationship. And vice versa...
A man who makes decisions alone will find a wife beginning to make decisions alone.
Where does this thinking end when a husband feels that he has the athority to make final decisions? It ends in disaster and divorce.
It is not love for a husband to blindly make decisions apart from the blessing of his wife. Every decision he makes he moves away from his wife and the yakh'-ad they are called to have.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 07:16 AM
Brother LTM, Amos is not talking about the relationship between husband and wife. It is easy to take one verse and make it seem as if it was saying something it is not. Amos 3:3 should be taken in context with the rest of Amos 3, which was dealing with the wickedness and disobedience of the children of Isreal.
Nowhere have any of us suggested that a husband make decisions unilaterally. All of us have stated that a morally upright husband must seek his wife's counsel. That is part of her duty as a wife. However, if a consensus can not be reached, he is the one who must make the final decision. Two points of view are always helpful. But the Bible says that the final decision is on the shoulders of the husband because there can not be two heads.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 08:14 AM
Amos 3:3 simply means that two people don't meet unless they plan or make and appointment to do so. Many people like to twist the verse to try to make it mean something more spiritual. Had you read and understood your own verse when you defined "agreed" for us, you would know that it is speaking of making and appointment...not being one in agreement. You did the same type of twisting to the meaning of "submit". You have had the error pointed out to you on multiple occasions now.
" So if Amos 3:3 rejects the practicallity that two can walk together if not agreed."
The problem is it doesn't. At least not in the way you want us to believe. So therefore, the rest of your post on the issue is irrelevant.
" Let me explain it more clearly. A wife can agree to permit her husband to make a decision on a matter and a husband might agree to permit his wife to make a decision on a matter."
I don't think anyone here is arguing that a husband can never let a wife make a decision. You seem to think the biblical way is an evil controlling way. It's just not the case.
" If a husband feels he has the right to make a decision apart from the blessing of his wife he is mistaking and breaking down the yakh'-ad of their relationship. And vice versa..."
You do realize that people will at times disagree. Meaning the husband should have the blessing of the wife because of his headship. Or else, you will have two heads. As Voddie Baucham says, anything with two heads is a monster.
" Where does this thinking end when a husband feels that he has the athority to make final decisions? It ends in disaster and divorce."
I doubt that God's plan is set up for disaster and divorce. You'd have a hard time making that case to Him. The abuse and twisting of God's plan however does set the stage for divorce or at the very least, an awful marriage.
" It is not love for a husband to blindly make decisions apart from the blessing of his wife. Every decision he makes he moves away from his wife and the yakh'-ad they are called to have."
No one is advocating the husband making a "blind" decision. However the idea of requiring that his wife agree with him at all times before he makes a decision doesn't seem to have a biblical backing.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 08:24 AM
Had you read and understood your own post when you defined "agreed" for us, you would know that it is speaking of making an appointment...not being one in agreement.*
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 11:14 AM
LetThisMind,
It is one thing to agree with the Word as it is written and another to be a pragmatist as you are suggesting.
Your error has already been pointed out for you clearly. Do you believe that your fleshly pragmatic "wisdom" is greater than the eternal council of God?
You cannot play fast and loose with the Word.
May the Father give you understanding in all things.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 11:55 AM
Its is not theory, brother LTM. It is the Word of God. It is the Word specifically relating to the relationship between husband and wife. There must always be a President/King/Governor/General/etc. He may have an advisor (VP,Queen/Lt. Governor/Colonels/etc, but the duty of leadership is on him and him alone. He must bear the brunt of leadership and the consequences if he is wrong.
A man that will not lead his house is a man who is afraid to lead. He is a man who can later say, "See, it is not my fault because someone else made the decision". I would never, ever do that to my wife. I will lead. I will take the guilt of poor decisions.
I would never ask someone I love to do something I would not do myself. I would never ask my wife to "be the man". When you stand before the altar of God and vow to love, honor, cherish...keeping her in sickeness and in health, for richer or for poorer, in good times and in bad, forsaking all others, until death do you part...it is not a vow to her, it is a vow to God. It is a vow to him to be a man, to be a husband, and to be a father and to support and protect them. A man that will not support his family is worse than an infidel.
That support is not just financial, it is moral, physical, spiritual, and it is through leadeship. That leadership being a God given duty.
The Word of God is absolute. You can not split hairs like some lawyer in court. You can not use "legal" trickery or word play to change the Word of God. To do so is not only foolish, it is a sin. It is forbidden to change the words or meanings of the Word of God. You can not change the truth of God into a lie. We (men) are commanded to lead and women are commanded to help us.
A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 12:01 PM
" It is one thing to believe something in theory but it is another to prove it out in real life practically."
I think it is a dangerous path to choose your practicality over the word of God, or to imply the word of God isn't practical.
" What I say is not theory like yours, but is proven out again and again."
Actually the idea according to you, just popped into your head. I know this with statements like, "It is titled submission just a thought that came to me", "It makes sense now"...after...." I was just posting on a thread and I had to hit the submit button. Anyone here have to hit the submit button as well?"...
I find your motivation to be more of this, " Is submission starting to sound pretty good for you ladies, right?", than about being truthful to the word. You have been shown on multiple occasions now that words don't mean what you are claiming they mean. Have you taken that rebuke and admitted you were wrong? No, you just come back with attacks like, " Good luck applying your theory when you find ladies, guys." By the way, teaching something that does not agree with scripture is worse than theory. It's a lie. I will gladly promote my biblical theory over your lie. Am I being harsh? Not for the sake of being me, but in hopes that you will see the error of your ways and return to the scriptures as your foundation for teaching on submission. This is not about what works for you in your home. This is all about God and His purposes for His glory.
Now I wait. Will you admit you changed the definition of submit? Will you admit that very definition you gave for "agreed" refuted your entire post about Amos 3:3? You didn't even acknowledge my correction of you on Amos 3:3. Is there a reason for that?
