This refers to the fact that all things are under His rule and control, and that nothing happens in this Universe without His direction or permission. He is a God Who works, not just some things, but all things after the counsel of His own will (see Eph. 1:11). God's purpose is all- inclusive and is never thwarted (see Isa. 46:11). Nothing Takes Him by Surprise
"It is not merely that God has the power and right to govern all things but that He does so always and without exception." - John Piper
God is sovereign over the entire universe: Ps 103:19; Rom 8:28; Eph 1:11
God is sovereign over all of nature: Ps 135:6-7; Mt 5:45; 6:25-30
God is sovereign over angels & Satan: Ps 103:20-21; Job 1:12
God is sovereign over nations: Ps 47:7-9; Dan 2:20-21; 4:34-35
God is sovereign over human beings: 1 Sam 2:6-7; Gal 1:15-16
God is sovereign over animals: Ps 104:21-30; 1 Ki 17:4-6
God is sovereign over "accidents": Pr 16:33; Jon 1:7; Mt 10:29
God is sovereign over free acts of men: Ex 3:21; 12:25-36; Ez 7:27
God is sovereign over sinful acts of men and Satan: 2 Sam 24:1; 1 Chr 21:1; Gen 45:5; 50:20
"Yes, and God is also sovereign over our salvation."
Man's free will to choose or reject God does not negate His sovereignty. You guys continue to ignore clear Scripture that not only says God is willing that none perish and desires that everyone would come to repentance, but also those that show man's refusal [his choice] to turn to God [or to accept Him].
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life. -John 5:39-40
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because THEY RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth, that they might be saved. -2 Thessalonians 2:10
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do ALWAYS RESIST the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. -Acts 7:51
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they WOULD NOT COME. -Matthew 22:2-3
How shall we escape, IF WE NEGLECT so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him]; -Hebrews 2:3
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and YE WOULD NOT! -Luke 13:34
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and SHE REPENTED NOT. -Revelation 2:20-21
Those verses show that God calls. They also show that not all respond. Your Deformed Theology ignores that fact.
"Yes, and God is also sovereign over our salvation."
Man's free will to choose or reject God does not negate His sovereignty.
James replies:
Yes it does. God choose HIS OWN people for Himself.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
71, that verse says that God works ALL thing according to the counsel of HIS will, not yours, and not mine!
All things include your salvation and mine.
71 continues:
You guys continue to ignore clear Scripture that not only says God is willing that none perish and desires that everyone would come to repentance,
James replies:
NONE of HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, and he desires that ALL OF HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE come to repentance.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
See that 71? Not "as many as made a decision for Jesus"
But rather, "as many as were APPOINTED to eternal life."
71 said:
but also those that show man's refusal [his choice] to turn to God [or to accept Him].
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life. -John 5:39-40
James replies:
Yes, fallen natural man CANNOT and WILL NOT!
Jesus said TWICE in right after the verse you gave, in John 6 that "No man CAN come to me unless the Father draws them."
The second time he said it the disciples got discouraged and said, "Well then who CAN be saved?"
71 continues:
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because THEY RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth, that they might be saved. -2 Thessalonians 2:10
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do ALWAYS RESIST the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. -Acts 7:51
James replies:
You even capitalized "always resist"!! If they have a supposed free will don't you think at least SOME of the time they would accept Jesus?????? Always resisting is what will enslaved to SIN would do!
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Jesus GIVES THE REASON why people don't believe in Him, and it has NOTHING to do with any free will decision!
71 said:
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they WOULD NOT COME. -Matthew 22:2-3
James replies:
Jesus said NO ONE CAN COME! Jesus also said:
"Many are called but few are CHOSEN."
71 said:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and YE WOULD NOT! -Luke 13:34
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and SHE REPENTED NOT. -Revelation 2:20-21
Those verses show that God calls. They also show that not all respond. Your Deformed Theology ignores that fact.
James replies:
We agree that God calls and commands. But the outward call of the gospel goes out to all, but the ELECT receive a special INWARD call, and the Holy Spirit makes them come alive and they are the ONLY ONES who will believe.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
We agree that God calls and commands. But the outward call of the gospel goes out to all, but the ELECT receive a special INWARD call, and the Holy Spirit makes them come alive and they are the ONLY ONES who will believe.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Totally Anti Father, Anti Son, Anti Holy Spirit and then Totally Ant Christ.
Totally in the dark, out of the light of the word of God.
Responsibility and voluntary choice are not the same thing as free will. We affirm that man is indeed responsible for the choices he makes, yet we deny that the Bible teaches that man has a free will since it is no where taught in the pages of Scripture. The Bible teaches, rather, that God ordains all things that come to pass (Eph 1:11) and it also teaches that man is culpable for his choices (Ezek 18:20, Matt 12:37, John 9:41). Since the Scripture is our ultimate authority and highest presuppsosition, the multitude of clear scriptural declarations on this matter outweigh all unaided human logic. We find that almost always the objections to God's meticulous providence over all things are moral and philosophical rather than exegetical. This means we must strive to consciously affirm what the Scripture declares over all our finite understanding and sinful inner drive for independence.
In order to understand this better theologians have come up with the term "compatibilism" to describe the concurrence of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Compatibilism is a form of determinism and it should be noted that this position is no less deterministic than hard determinism. It simply means that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice. Our choices are not coerced ...i.e. we do not choose against what we want or desire, yet we never make choices contrary to God's sovereign decree. What God determines will always come to pass (Eph 1:11).
In light of Scripture, (according to compatibilism), human choices are exercised voluntarily but the desires and circumstances that bring about these choices about occur through divine determinism. For example, God is said to specifically ordain the crucifixion of His Son, and yet evil men willfully and voluntarily crucify Him (see Acts 2:23 & 4:27-28). This act of evil is not free from God's decree, but it is voluntary, and these men are thus responsible for the act, according to these Texts. Or when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery in Egypt, Joseph later recounted that what his brothers intended for evil, God intended for good (Gen 50:20). God determines and ordains that these events will take place (that Joseph will be sold into slavery), yet the brothers voluntarily make the evil choice that beings it to pass, which means the sin is imputed to Joseph's brothers for the wicked act, and God remains blameless. In both of these cases, it could be said that God ordains sin, sinlessly. Nothing occurs apart from His sovereign good pleasure.
We should be clear that NEITHER compatibilism nor hard determinism affirms that any man has a free will. Those who believe man has a free will are not compatibilists, but should, rather, be called "inconsistent". Our choices are our choices because they are voluntary, not coerced. We do not make choices contrary to our desires or natures, nor seperately from God's meticulous providence. Furthermore, compatibilism is directly contrary to libertarian free will. Therefore voluntary choice is not the freedom to choose otherwise, that is, a choice without any influence, prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. Voluntary does mean, however, the ability to choose what we want or desire most according to our disposition and inclinations. The former view (libertarianism) is known as contrary choice, the latter free agency. (the fallen will is never free from the bondage of our corrupt nature, and and not free, in any sense, from God's eternal decree.) The reason I emphasize this is that compatibilists are often misrepresented by hard determinists at this point. They are somehow confused with inconsistent Calvinists. When compatibilists use such phrases as "compatibilistic freedom", they are, more often than not, using it to mean 'voluntary' choice, but are not referring to freedom FROM God's decree or absolute sovereignty (an impossible supposition).
In biblical terminology, fallen man is in bondage to a corruption of nature and that is why the biblical writers considered him not free (see Rom 6). Jesus Himself affirms that the one who sins is a "slave to sin" and only the Son can set him free. Note that even Jesus speaks of a kind of freedom here. He is not speaking of freedom from God but freedom from the bondage of sin, which is the kind of freedom those have who are in Christ. In this sense God is the most free Person since He is holy, set apart from sin... yet He cannot make choices contrary to His essence, i.e. He cannot be unholy. So, we must conclude, according to Jesus in John 8:31-36, that the natural man does not have a free will. The will is in bondage to sin. Any consistent theologian who uses the term "freedom" usually is referring to that fact that while God sovereignly ordains all that comes to pass, yet man's "free choice" (voluntary) is compatible with God's sovereign decree. In other words the will is free from external coercion but not free from necessity. In my reckoning, there is no biblical warrant to use the phrase "free will", since the Bible never affirms or uses this term or concept. So when some theologians use the word "free" they may be misusing or importing philosophical language from outside the Bible, but I think anyone who is consistent with the Text means "voluntary" when they say "free", but NEVER affirm they are free from God in any sense. For to affirm that God sovereignly brings our choices to pass and then also say man is free FROM GOD, is self-contradictory. So I repeat, many of those whom I read seem equate the word freedom with the meaning "voluntary". If any mean "free from God" they are confused. I heard R.C. Sproul say there are "no maverick molecules". Nothing happens by chance, but all falls within God's meticulous providence, no exceptions.
James wrote - "We agree that God calls and commands. But the outward call of the gospel goes out to all, but the ELECT receive a special INWARD call, and the Holy Spirit makes them come alive and they are the ONLY ONES who will believe."
God creates people for damnation, with no chance of eternal life in Him, because He has MADE THEM THAT WAY, and then commands "all men every where to repent". What kind of logical sense does that make? "I'm going to create you to say no and refuse my command, but I command you to say yes. However, you won't be able to say yes, no matter how many times I command you, because I have created you with the inability to obey that command". That is essentially what your theory says about "outward call". What a sad and ridiculous thought.
Hitler tried to do away with a race of people. Why? Because they were Jews and did not fit his 'master plan' for a 'master race', which did not include the Jewish race. Was that wrong? Was it the Jews' fault they were born Jewish and led to slaughter as a result? How is this principle any different than your theology that says God will exterminate His "created for hell, sinners"? Is it the sinner's fault that he was created to never hear that "INWARD call" and fashioned this way by God Himself? If God creates those for damnation... if He creates them to never give Christ a thought, and the only ones who can ever believe in Him are those He created for belief, then the rest of creation is divinely created sinful with only sin in their minds and the sin of disbelief, which they can never choose to shed, and all at God's hand..
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: -James 1:13
Taking the ability to choose away from man, places the responsibility of that inability upon God. Man is no longer held accountable for his sin that sends him to hell; God is, because He created him for such a destiny. He wasn't created to respond to that "INWARD call". Now... God can do this if He wants, but is it "just"? Is God a just God? Or does God's sovereignty negate justice so He can pick and choose who lives and who dies based on nothing but sovereignty? Our courts of law require that a man be found RESPONSIBLE for a crime he committed before they can sentence him. They don't arbitrarily pick people off the streets and sentence them to death.
Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? -Job 4:17
Well Saved it is very obvious and very Simple, Satan has not changed, Sovereignty is a biblical word , but so is the love of God and the author of he can anything he wants is Satan. Calvinist want you to give up Jesus for Satan go figure.
