I want to know from the "calvinists" or "reformers" well Donna and James and AWM...
OK so do you think that there are people that are "non elect" but they want salvation and they have asked for forgivness because maybe someone they loved told them Jesus died for them but in your opinion he really didnt die for them??? Do these types of people exist? of no fault of their own they try to get saved and they ask Jesus to forgive and they say the "sinners prayer" but are not really saved because they re not "the elect"
These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.
Total Depravity:
Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man�s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man�s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."
Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God�s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).
Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).
Limited Atonement:
Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus� sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for �many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus� crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).
Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man�s will, but by God�s.
Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus� return.
Concerning those that are born again, the elect are not able to believe the word of God so since they are the selected elected, the Holy Spirit gives them a generator so that they can believe, because they can not believe in their fallen state and then they are able to believe and confess Jesus as lord.
It is hard to even write this.
Read thru these five points it will shed some, will what they believe.
I was a back slider I was saved filled with the holy spirit and regeneration had more than begun in my life for a few years and then I quit going to church and I slipped back into my sins, :toomuch::toomuch::toomuch::toomuch: Had I died that way I would have been in hell for sure but I know for sure I was saved the first time, then God plucked me out of the world again:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL: SOOOOO how can they explain that, except they say I ws never really saved, which is why I asked the question in the first place because if someone who is non elect really is serving the Lord which I was and the proccess of regeneration was manifesting in my life, they say these things cant happen if your not one of the elect but they also say you cant lose salvation if your elect sooo to put it like AWM that dog wont hunt.. thats why even though they can make me think that they are making sence I still know different because I lived it and that trumps their asumptions about what scripture means:yay::yay::yay:
Concerning those that are born again, the elect are not able to believe the word of God so since they are the selected elected, the Holy Spirit gives them a generator so that they can believe, because they can not believe in their fallen state and then they are able to believe and confess Jesus as lord.
*** There is the Generator again before Faith...:laugh:
Even a Calvinist will tell you they beleive a person can be Convicted of Sin prior to the Regeneration that leads to Faith as they preach it...BUT...if a person is Already Regenerated before Faith...then how can a person Preach Jesus* Message of "Good News and Saving Faith in Grace in Him [Jesus] to One that has Already been Re-Generated ???
Thats preaching to the Righteous and Not the Sinner which Christ Jesus came to call unto him..Its the most BackWard Theology I've come across in all my years of study...xo
the bible says men are dead in sin until God quickens him/her. salvation is all of God nothing of people. humanism does not like someone to trump them but God does. this is all the huff and puff on this site. I for one believe in a almighty God who does not need me to save myself, but pj and jude need to help their god out by their free will.
You two have fun with that, i will keep my God of the bible and praise him for the great things he has done.
*** Sorry Donna...I dont study a Dead mans Doctrine or Interpretation of the Scripture called Calvinism...that is a "mans" doctrine...I do study the Holy Bible and its a Living Doctrine...in Christ Jesus...Be Blessed...xo
We can't renew our minds by ourselves Rom 12:2; it's the transforming work of the Holy Spirit who lives in us. Yet speaking the truth in our thoughts can help us to submit to the Spirit's work within.
God is Holy and you can not get to Him; unless you except his Son Jesus into your heart by confessing your sin; asking forgiveness and receiving His love.
All those who are trying to get to God must go through Jesus Christ, God's Only Son; He is the Only Door to personal Salvation. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
