Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 25 Dec, 2011 06:18 PM
WHAT IS BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT? While the exact phrase "baptism in the Holy Spirit" never occurs in Scripture, it is closely related to the biblical expression "baptize(d) in [or with] the Holy Spirit" ( Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 19:6; 2:4; 1:8 ;Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33).
The word "baptize" comes from the Greek word "baptizo", which means �to make fully wet, overwhelm, cover wholly". It is used to suggest that the Holy Spirit completely overwhelms a person with His presence. The word "fill" comes from the Greek word "pletho" which means "to fill, influence, supply, accomplish, furnish". It is used to suggest how the Holy Spirit influences and empowers a person by His presence. the baptism (or infilling) of the Holy Spirit is an overwhelming, consuming experience whereby the Holy Spirit consumes the believer with spiritual power and energy that is available no other way. To illustrate, if we drink water from a glass, then the water would be inside us. However, if we went to the beach and stepped into the ocean, then we would be in the water. We receive, as it were, a drink of the Holy Spirit when we are saved, but when we are baptized in the Spirit, it is as if that initial drink becomes an ocean that completely surrounds.
The word baptism refers literally to a "dipping" or "immersing" in water. When one uses the term baptism in the Holy Spirit, it is parallel to what is being described by the term baptism in water. Christian water baptism is an initiatory rite, acknowledging conversion and the indwelling presence of the Spirit.7 The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a subsequent powerful, overwhelming immersion in the Holy Spirit. While New Testament believers sometimes received later infillings of the Spirit (Acts 4:31), "baptism" in the Holy Spirit in all the biblical examples happens only once to an individual.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is the specific event that introduces the believer to the ongoing process of living a Spirit-empowered life. It is an experience distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth. Its initial physical evidence is speaking in tongues.
The very essence of Pentecostalism is the recognition that the experience of conversion, while supremely precious, does not exhaust God�s supply of what is available to the believer. Scripture makes it clear that all believers have the Holy Spirit (indwelling) (Romans 8:9, 16; Eph. 1: 13-14; 4: 30; 2 Cor. 1: 21-22). However, the constant hunger for "more of God" is the heartbeat of Pentecostalism. It is a life-changing experience available to every believer.
THE IMPORTANCE OF BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT: With it comes the endowment of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4,8; 1 Cor. 12:1-31). This experience is distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth (Acts 8:12-17; 10:44-46; 11:14-16; 15:7-9). With the baptism in the Holy Spirit come such experiences as an overflowing fullness of the Spirit (John 7:37�39; Acts 4:8), a deepened reverence for God (Acts 2:43; Hebrews 12:28), an intensified consecration to Him and a dedication to His work (Acts 2:42), and a more active love for Christ, for His Word, and for the lost (Mark 16:20).
The baptism in the Holy Spirit is just the open door leading into a Spirit-filled life�a fact that can be easily overlooked, even by Pentecostals. The manifestation of supernatural gifts in the life of a believer who has not been baptized in the Holy Spirit is possible, but being baptized opens the door to a more dynamic, more effective manifestation. Empowered service and holy living accompany the Spirit-filled life after the Baptism initiation. Salvation is an initiation experience leading to Christ likeness, the baptism in the Holy Spirit marks a supernatural endowment leading to Christ like ministry in the power of the Spirit. We are not more loved because we have received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, but we have become better equipped to witness with boldness to God�s abundant grace..
Can believers who have not experienced the baptism in the Holy Spirit minister with supernatural signs following? The answer is yes (Mark 16:17)
INDWELLING IS NOT THE SAME AS HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM.
Acts 8:12-19 - The Samaritans believed and were baptized (v12), so they were saved (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Eph. 1: 13-14; 4: 30; 2 Cor. 1: 21-22 ). When they were forgiven, they immediately received the indwelling. However, the Spirit had not yet fallen on them (v 15,16). The Spirit was indwelling them, yet in another sense they did not have the Holy Spirit. They received this when the apostles came and laid hands on them (vv 14-19).
TONGUES AS INITIAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE:
Acts describes five occasions on which people received an empowering of the Spirit for the first time (i.e., baptism in the Spirit)
The expression "initial physical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit" refers to the first outward, observable sign that the Holy Spirit has come in filling power.( Acts 2:4 ;9:10-19;10:44-48;19:1-6 ;8:17-19). In Acts 8:18 had the experience been only by faith without any accompanying sign, Simon would not have known whether the Samaritan believers actually received the Holy Spirit.
WHAT IS SPEAKING IN TONGUES?
Speaking in tongues is a language that you, the speaker, don�t understand. 1 Corinthians 13:1 It is a language given to a believer by the Lord, and it�s a language of men or angels.
Speaking in tongues speaks the wonderful works of God.
It praises God; It gives God thanks.; It speaks a sacred secret to God.; It prays � that language is praise
Speaking in tongues is the physical, biblical evidence that one is baptized in the Holy Spirit. The apostles and believers accepted tongues as convincing evidence of the baptism in the Spirit: "When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God" Acts 11:17-18).
Is speaking in tongue the only evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit and a Spirit-filled life? No, but they are always the initial, or first, evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit as the entrance into a Spirit-filled life. Empowerment for witness; enthusiasm and boldness in witnessing, divine guidance and enabling in the presentation of the gospel, and miraculous manifestations of God�s power before unbelievers all may serve as additional evidences of baptism in the Holy Spirit, though not as substitutions for speaking in tongues. The Spirit-filled life should also demonstrate progressive development toward a complete Christ like character
DO ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES? ( Mark 16: 17 ;1 Cor 12 :10,28,30; 14: 5,18,23) NKJV Paul is talking about public ministry gifts that are manifested in the church in 1 Cor 12 :10,28,30. Every believer can and should speak in supernatural languages given by the Holy Spirit
WHY SPEAK IN TONGUES? Speaking in tongues will not make you better than someone else -- but it will help you.
1. It is God's will. (1 Cor 14:5, 37)
2. Jesus said we would. Mark 16:17 NKJV
3. It builds you up spiritually. (1 Cor. 14: 14) AMP
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself (1 Cor. 14:4) . 4. It stimulates your faith because faith must be exercised to speak in tongues.(Jude 1:20)
5. It enables you to pray for things you otherwise would not even know about. (Ro. 8:26 )
6. It helps you pray according to God's will. It eliminates unbelief and selfishness from your praying. (Ro. 8:26, 27 ; Jn 14:16-17 )
7. It provides a spiritual rest and refreshing. (Isaiah 28:11-12)
8. It is a supernatural evidence (reminder) of the Holy Spirit's indwelling. As you continue to speak in tongues you stay conscious of His presence. (Acts 2: 4 )
9. It is a means of releasing the wisdom and guidance of God (1 Cor. 14:2; 2:7). 10. It is a supernatural means of communication with God (1 Cor. 14:2).
11. It provides a way to give thanks well (1Cor. 14: 15-17).
12. Brings the tongue under subjection. If you can yield your tongue, you can yield any member (Jas 3:8).
13. It allows the Holy Spirit to help you in the most important area, speaking the right words, so the will of God will be accomplished in your life. (ACTS 2:4; MARK 11:23).
14. Gifts and power are released in your life (ACTS 1:8; Jn 7:38-39).
15. It is the supernatural way to worship and magnify God (Jn 16:13-14; Acts 10:46)
NOTE: Though we believe speaking in tongues is the unmistakable initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, we do not believe it signifies instant maturity. There are many other evidences that a life continues to be filled with the Spirit and is growing and maturing spiritually.
Having spoken in tongues upon being baptized in the Spirit, the believer must continue to respond to the supernatural promptings of the Holy Spirit (Eph. 6: 18; Jude 20).
Though not all Spirit-filled believers are given the gift of tongues which through interpretation edifies the church congregation (1 Cor. 12:30), they all have the privilege of praying in the Spirit, especially at times when the human intellect does not know how to pray. We believe this last-days outpouring of the Holy Spirit is God�s sovereign move to meet the satanic challenges of the day and to prepare Christ�s bride for His soon return.
The overwhelmingly godless condition of society today, with evil becoming increasingly rampant, calls for a Spirit-filled church that can meet the challenges of Satan with a supernatural demonstration of the Holy Spirit power.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 25 Dec, 2011 10:21 PM
Hello everyone:
Might i hijack this for a moment.
First of all,the word Gift does not appear in the Scriptures where the word 'GIFTS' has been placed in 1st Corinthians.
The Correct 'GREEK' word is 'CHARISMA',from which the English word 'GRACE' is from.
When did the Grace of YHWH ever cease?
Surely someone knows.
'NEVER'
Exactly,for the Grace of YHWH to stop,or cease,YHWH would have to stop existing.
Even in the new creation believers will still be dependant upon the Grace of YHWH for their existence.
I believe the reason we in America do not experience and see the visible manifestations of the Holy Spirit,is the ;UNBELIEF' within the believers..
Mat 13:58 and he did not there many mighty works, because of their unbelief.
Also,the GOSPEL is not being proclaimed as it has been recorded..
People are hearing nonsense today,make me feel good.
There are many counterfeits today,they tickle the ears of the hearers.
Yet,the genuine Gospel,and the genuine Charisma of the Holy Spirit has not ceased.
Because of the MANY counterfeits,the believers of old had settled to tell others that the Charisma-Grace-Empowerments of the Holy Spirit had ceased.
Yet from where did their ability to teach and evangelize originate from,'THEMSELVES'.
By no means is this true.
If it were not of the Holy Spirit then,the Word of YHWH would not be true.
1Co 12:28 And God placed some in the assembly: firstly, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers; then works of power; then gifts of healing, helps, governings, kinds of languages.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? All prophets? All teachers? All workers of power?
1Co 12:30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak languages? Do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But zealously strive after the better gifts. And yet I show you a way according to excellence:
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks to be a prophet, or a spiritual one, let him recognize the things I write to you, that they are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39 So then, brothers, seek eagerly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in languages.
Look at the following verse,look at the number next to the word 'Gifts' in Romans,there are two different Greek words.
Charisma and Charis.
Then look at the verse in 1st Corinthians 12.
The number next to the word Gifts is the same as in the verse from Romans concerning the Charisam-Grace-Gifts of the Holy SPirit.
Rom 12:6 HavingG2192 thenG1161 giftsG5486 differingG1313 accordingG2596 to theG3588 graceG5485 that is givenG1325 to us,G2254 whetherG1535 prophecy,G4394 let us prophesy accordingG2596 to theG3588 proportionG356 of faith;G4102
1Co 12:4 NowG1161 there areG1526 diversitiesG1243 of gifts,G5486 butG1161 theG3588 sameG846 Spirit.G4151
This Charisma-Grace-Gifts is the 'EXACT' same word in Ephesians 2:8
Eph 2:8 ForG1063 by graceG5485 areG2075 ye savedG4982 throughG1223 faith;G4102 andG2532 thatG5124 notG3756 ofG1537 yourselves:G5216 it is theG3588 giftG1435 of God:G2316
English-Gift
Greek-Charisma
G5486
χάρισμα
charisma
Thayer Definition:
1) a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own
2) the gift of divine grace
3) the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
4) the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith
5) grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from G5483
English-Grace
Greek-Charis
G5485
χάρις
charis
Thayer Definition:
1) grace
1a) that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
2) good will, loving-kindness, favour
2a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
3) what is due to grace
3a) the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 25 Dec, 2011 11:30 PM
WOW GEORGE AMEN James what the bible does not say is that it died out/ I have said before that He has never been an indian giver! He dave us a wonderful gift whay would he take it!you all take one scripture and run with it, that which is perfect has not yet come ,,, and if tounges had ceased then doasnt that mean the rest of the gifts mention have passed away?
and yes that is very biblical james. many times they are saved yet have not revieved the Holy Spirit yet one time they told Paul they hadnt even heard there was a Holy Spirt the Paul laid hands on them and praid and they were alll filled! as long as you are a SLAVE TO DOUBT you will never believe!why is it at so mant of yall claim the believe He is so soverign and powerful yet you dont believe he can do something like put a hevean,y lsnguahe in your head?
Why would He give suxh a gift then take it awat!
James show me where we that believe in two seperate events are wrong
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 06:14 AM
Your right, G-d isn't an Indian giver, we can't lose our salvation and the gifts of the Holy Spirit were given for a specific time and purpose.
The reason the gift of tongues was given at Pentecost was for believers to proclaim the good news to others in their language so they could understand it and many were saved in the Book of Acts. The Corinthian church was chastised for doing things out of order and instructed to not misuse this gift, but they continue to do so, therefore, they are deceived. In the latter days it does say many things about how demonic spirits will masquerade as Holy Spirit and perform miracles, therefore, take heed that you be not deceived in these latter days.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 06:56 AM
Yes shalom,there are many counterfeits around.
What then is necessary is to be Bereans and check
EVERYTHING against the Word of YHWH.
I personally do not believe everything / anything someone tells me concerning the Word of YHWH without first checking the Scriptures
If my investigations match up with Scripture,then we have the authentic.
If they do not match up with the Word of YHWH then we have a counterfeit.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 08:20 AM
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Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 06:56 AM
Yes shalom,there are many counterfeits around.
What then is necessary is to be Bereans and check
EVERYTHING against the Word of YHWH.
I personally do not believe everything / anything someone tells me concerning the Word of YHWH without first checking the Scriptures
If my investigations match up with Scripture,then we have the authentic.
If they do not match up with the Word of YHWH then we have a counterfeit.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Shalom and Chesed
The Farmer
To Shalom this is a perfect example of a counterfeit, posing as the truth proclaiming to have the truth concerning the Holy Spirit but denying The word of God concering this bible truth, which is an example of the what the bible calls the traditions of men.
The traditions of men are of those that put there own meaning to a topic by adding to are taking away from the word of God.
The traditions do not accept the word of God as written consequently not believing what is written thus rejecting faith on that given topic.
Some of the traditions of men Concering receiving the Holy Spirit, first example Acts 2:4:
1. This manifestation is the gift of tongues
FACT THIS EXAMPLE IS THE FRUIT OF RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE BIBLE EVIDENCE
THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT ARE AS THE SPIRIT WILLS, NOT AS MAN WILLS AND AS THE SPIRIT ADMINISTERS THESE GIFTS
THE SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER CAN SPEAK IN TONGUES AS HE WILLS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL GIVE THE UTTERANCE.
2. This manifestion was to proclaim the gospel to those present.
Fact when a believer speaks in tongues it is in a known language but not one learned by that man and one of the manifestations can be in man's own language.
Peter ultimately proclaimed the gospel in this setting but not in tongues.
The traditions of man all of them come forth to hide the bible truth concering The Gift of the Holy Spirit.
You have men and women proclaiming to me of one of the ministry gifts, Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher and they have never received The Holy Spirit, rejecting the very anoint that appoints them into the office.
One can not speak of The Gift of The Holy Spirit when they have rejected what the word proclaims it to be for they have rejected the truth, and yet endeavoring to proclaim the truth of the topic.
The bible says That The Gift Of The Holy Ghost is for all, and it is essential for all to receive him.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 2:1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
This is the fullfillment of the words spoken that Jesus would baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire.
The first reference of the will of God concering this topic establishes this truth to the church.
Scripture speaks of it as The gift of The Holy Spirit, Baptism with The Holy Ghost, Filled with the Holy Ghost.
There is confirmation for the one tempted to doubt this truth in this context.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
FACTS AGAIN REVEALED THAT THOSE THAT RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON THEM AND THEY WHERE ASTONISHED BECAUSE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST WAS POURED OUT ON THEM, FOR THEY HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES, THE WORD PROCLAIMS THEY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST. � And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
Acts 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
Acts 11:3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
Acts 11:4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
Acts 11:5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
Acts 11:6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
Acts 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
Acts 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Acts 11:10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
Acts 11:11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
Acts 11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man�s house:
Acts 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
This context of scripture again speaks to the same truth.
The father gave them the same gift, the gentiles who believed on the lord Jesus.
This is two witness establishing this bible truth:
When they received the Holy Ghost they spoke in tongues.
There are more witnesses to the same truth but if you will not accept these you will not accept others.
The word will always and only profit those that mix faith with it.
Note that as peter said it would be withstanding God to deny this truth.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 08:33 AM
Elisha said:
"the Bible does not say the gift of tongues has died out."
James replies:
"Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away."
(1 Cor. 13)
There are no Apostles alive today on Earth. There are no healing powers, because Paul lost them WHILE he alive on Earth.
The Early Christians KNEW these sign gifts had ceased, and that was the belief throughout all of church history until Azuza Street.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 08:53 AM
James that is simply an example of an interpreter speaking against the word of God.
Their is a monent in history in the mid 1800's in The church History where a man was part of a reformers church and had bought a bible to prove to the unbelievers of that the church what the bible really said, he was born again and later the same day baptized with the Holy Ghost and ultimately led all but two of the church to the lord for they where lost in the traditions of men, dead in their tresppases but readily received the word of God when it was spoken to them.
James you again denied the statement you made the other day, you just said with your own mouth Jesus passed away.
