Thread: How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
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How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 11:20 AM
Romans 16:5: "Greet the church that meets at their house!"
I Cor 16:19: "Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house!"
Philemon 1:2:"To the church that meets in your home!"
Luke 12:33,34: Jesus says, �Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted....For where your treasure is there your heart will be also.�
Presently the poor in the USA have cars, cell phones, TV's and food stamps. Whereas there are over 2 billion people in the world who makes less then a dollar a day!!:applause::angel::peace:
Matthew 20:20-24: �All these {Commandments} I have kept, the young man said. �What do I still lack?� Jesus answered, �If you want to be perfect, go, sell tour possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. **THEN** come, follow Me.� When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus says, �It is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.�
Luke 6:20: Jesus says �Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.�
2 Corinthians 6:4-10: As servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance, in troubles, hardships and distresses, in beatings, imprisonments; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love, in truthful speech and in the power of God; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; dying, and yet we live on; beaten and yet not killed; *POOR*, yet making many rich; *HAVING NOTHING*; and yet possessing everything.�
I Timothy 6:5-10: There are men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with Contentment is great gain....If we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.�
I Timothy 2:9,10: �I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.�
Matthew 19:27-30: Peter said to Jesus, �We have left EVERYTHING to follow you! What then will there be for us?� Jesus says, �I tell you the Truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me {Including Paul}will also sit on 12 thrones...And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for My sake will receive 100 times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last {In this life}will be first.� And there will be plenty of room for 100 houses and 100 fields in the New Jerusalem since it will be over 1377 miles long and wide and high.
The early church followed these Biblical commands:
Acts 2:44,45: "All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to everyone as he had need!!"
Acts 4:32: All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared EVERYTHING they had!!
Luke 6:27-30: Jesus commands, But I tell you who hear Me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not keep him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back!!"
2 Cor 10:3,4: "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have Divine Power to demolish strongholds!!"
Matthew 28:19,20: Jesus commands, "Make disciples of all nations..... teaching them to obey **EVERYTHING** I have commanded you!!"
I John 2:3-5: "We know that we have come to know Him **IF** we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the Truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in Him!!"
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 12:15 PM
:applause::applause::applause:
Nice to see ya share your wisdom and insights once and awhile Prophetic.
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 12:51 PM
Yeah, yeah... Richard. and the cost of living has also increased since the first century church as well... you are also not living in houses made of clay as were the case in the first century either,... and Jesus and His discipels, WALKED everywhere they went in the first century church, and the apsotles did not ride around the region in cars with scriptures posted all over them either saying they were spreading the gospel, but instead they WALKED every where they went for days and rode on donkeys, for weeks and months to get from one city to another, carriying the word of God in thier mouth proclaiming the gospel, speaking to the crowds with their mouths, not on billborad cars... and when God called for armies to come together, men from all the country side formed the army and went and killed everybody in a city including the animals, and took all the spoils according to God's order... so what else is new?..:zzzz:..how many hungry and poor did you help feed with your income or your time in service at a shelter or doing mission wervice last year... and how much of your income are you putting aside to feed the hungry and poor this year, and work in the shelters and missions helping the poor and needy?... go fuger, then come abck and give an account of your good works...:ROFL:
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 03:09 PM
Acts 17:11: Tells us to read God's Word daily.
We can read God's Word in the Bible or in tracts or on billboards or on cars or on signs or on housetops: The sword of the Spirit is the Word of God.
Matthew 10:27: Jesus commands, "What I whisper in your ear proclaim from the housetops!!"
There are some who follow the Satanic Prosperity Gospel of Joel Osteel PJ or ET and believe we are still under the OT obsolete Covenant:
In the old covenant God's commandments were only preached to Jews but in the New Covenant Jesus commands us to preach to every nation in the world teaching them to obey *EVERYTHING* He commanded and everything would also include all of the approximately 400 NT commandments also taught in Acts to Revelation {See 2 Timothy 3-16 to 4:2.}
There were 613 OT commandments and Jesus changed many of them including all of the strict Sabbath commands and all of the commands to stone someone for sinning {Jesus says that he who is without sin should cast the first stone} Jesus also eliminated all the strict Levitical dietary laws declaring that all foods are now clean. And Jesus also commanded us not to make any vows or oaths {Matt 5:33-37}on anything Just let your Yes be yes and your no, no.
Jesus also eliminated the eye for an eye laws and commanded us to always offer up the other cheek and to love {See Matt 5:38-48} our enemies. And of course Jesus eliminated all sacrifices and offerings for sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Jesus also eliminated the earthly rewards for faithful service and commanded us to sell our possessions and give to the poor and get *TREASURES IN HEAVEN* and **THEN** come follow Him.
Luke 12:33,34: Jesus says, �Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted....For where your treasure is there your heart will be also.�
Matthew 20:20-24: �All these {Commandments} I have kept, the young man said. �What do I still lack?� Jesus answered, �If you want to be perfect, go, sell tour possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. **THEN** come, follow Me.� When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus says, �It is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.�
Isaiah 53:5,6: "He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him. and by His wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way, and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!!"
Hebrews 9:15,26b-28: Christ is the mediator of a **NEW COVENANT** so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant...But now He has APPEARED once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the SACRIFICE of Himself... so Christ was SACRIFICED ONCE to take away the sins of many people, and He will *APPEAR* a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.
Hebrews 8:8,9,13: God found fault with the people and said {In Exodus 25:40}: The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a **NEW COVENANT**{Read Deut 18:17-19!!} with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will **NOT** be like the covenant I made with their forefathers.....By calling this covenant **NEW**, He made the first one **OBSOLETE**; and what is **OBSOLETE** and aging will soon disappear.� {When all the words of the New Covenant were completed by the Book of Revelation in AD 96!!}
Hebrew 10:8-10: Jesus said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them. Although the law required them to be made. The He {Jesus} said. "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He {Jesus} set aside the first {Covenant} to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus ONCE FOR ALL!!:applause::angel::peace:
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 03:23 PM
So Richard, are you saying that you have sold all your possesions, except the clothes on your back, and then you started folowing Jesus? EVEN YOUR CAR RICHARS?? WOW dude how do you get aroung? do yall got public transportation where you live? godness where do you sleep at night?:ROFL:
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 03:49 PM
:ROFL:...Elisha...
My question is since Richard puts down and doesn't attend anybody's church and doesn't believe in the institution of the building of the traditional church... which HOUSE CHURCH DOES HE ATTEND.. or does he ATTEND WORSHIP WITH OTHERS AT ALL???
Yeah, Richard, you got that right!... and God has never told us not to build a special building to worship Him in either, and no where can you find in the Bible where He commands us to hold worship in a house church as the first century church did over 200 years ago, becasue they were poor and couldn't afford to build a special building to worship either...
and YEAH, you got that right I follow the prosperity message, and guess what?... it OWRKS, you freely give, and Go freely give back to you!... God is a man of His word, and I prosper and I go and feed the hungry, I clothe the naked, I house the homeless, I go and pray for the sick and shut in and take those things they are in need of, I give my money for the cause of speading the gospel... and guess what again?... I do it with the prosperity money God blesses me with to do what I do, when I pay my tithes and other offerings to hekp with the up keep of the meeting place that has been set aside for beleievers to come worship and praise the Lord in, and meet for Sunday School, and Bible study, and house food banks, etc.
PRAISE GOD I HAVE FAITH TO BELIEVE IN FREELY GIVING AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN BACK TO ME, PRESSED DOWN AND RUNNING OVER IN MY BOSOM MEN SHALL GIVE TO ME IN RETURN FOR WHAT I HAVE FREELY GIVEN TO OTHERS FOR THE CAUSE OF THE FUTHERING OF THE GOSPEL... ALWAYS AT THE TIME OF WHATEVER MY NEEDS MAYBE, GOD SUPPLIES ALL OF MY NEEDS ACCORDING TO HIS RICHES IN GLORY!..
AND I PRAISE GOD FOR HIS MARVELOUS BLESSINGS TO PROSPER IN ALL THINGS, BE IN GOOD HEALTH, AS MY SOULS ALSO PROSPERS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST...AND NOT BE IN WANT AS HE HAS PROMISED, OF NO GOOD THING!
:applause::applause::yay::dancingp::yay:
What have YOU done for the kingdom of God lately in your freely giving???!!! ever thought that maybe not giving has reasons as to why you're not prospering in ALL THINGS???:purpleangel:... and you're not prospering because you are not giving in ALL THINGS???
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 05:27 PM
AWM said:
Romans 16:5: "Greet the church that meets at their house!"
I Cor 16:19: "Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house!"
Philemon 1:2:"To the church that meets in your home!"
James replies:
The first Christians met in homes, because they were so small in numbers. Christians began building church buildings as soon as they needed the space.
There is nothing right or wrong about meeting in a home, OR a building built for that purpose.
Church buildings today are used for day care centers, pre-schools and elementary schools for Christians and non-Christians alike.
AWM said:
Luke 12:33,34: Jesus says, �Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted....For where your treasure is there your heart will be also.�
Presently the poor in the USA have cars, cell phones, TV's and food stamps. Whereas there are over 2 billion people in the world who makes less then a dollar a day!!
James replies:
The reason we have the richest "poor" people is because our nation has been soaked in and built upon Christian principles.
I like the idea of giving to the poor overseas and there are plenty of Christian charities that exist, and American Christians give a LOT of money to the poor around the world.
AWM said:
Matthew 20:20-24: �All these {Commandments} I have kept, the young man said. �What do I still lack?� Jesus answered, �If you want to be perfect, go, sell tour possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. **THEN** come, follow Me.� When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus says, �It is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.�
James replies:
This was the instruction Jesus gave to a specific person who had convinced their self that they were good enough to be right with God. Jesus showed that man that he was NOT good enough, and then made a comment that shows that fallen man cannot save Himself. Only God can save a man.
AWM said:
Luke 6:20: Jesus says �Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.�
James replies:
It means poor in Spirit, or HUMBLE. You are not blessed for being destitute.
AWM said:
2 Corinthians 6:4-10: As servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance, in troubles, hardships and distresses, in beatings, imprisonments; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love, in truthful speech and in the power of God; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; dying, and yet we live on; beaten and yet not killed; *POOR*, yet making many rich; *HAVING NOTHING*; and yet possessing everything.�
I Timothy 6:5-10: There are men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with Contentment is great gain....If we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.�
I Timothy 2:9,10: �I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.�
Matthew 19:27-30: Peter said to Jesus, �We have left EVERYTHING to follow you! What then will there be for us?� Jesus says, �I tell you the Truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me {Including Paul}will also sit on 12 thrones...And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for My sake will receive 100 times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last {In this life}will be first.�
And there will be plenty of room for 100 houses and 100 fields in the New Jerusalem since it will be over 1377 miles long and wide and high.
The early church followed these Biblical commands:
Acts 2:44,45: "All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to everyone as he had need!!"
James replies:
That particular church did that because it was necessary.
It is NOT a doctrine that Christians must do this.
Acts 4:32: All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared EVERYTHING they had!!
James replies:
Christians sold land to help the poor among them, and they shared with the poor according to their need.
AWM said:
Luke 6:27-30: Jesus commands, But I tell you who hear Me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not keep him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back!!"
James replies:
To "turn the other cheek" was a Jewish expression that meant not to sue someone in court even though you had the right.
If you deny this, and say that we are supposed to let someone beat on us, then I will remind you that Jesus told the Apostles to carry a sword with them when they went out preaching the gospel, and He even told that if they did not have a sword, that they should sell something and buy one.
AWM said:
2 Cor 10:3,4: "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does." The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have Divine Power to demolish strongholds!!"
James replies:
Okay AWM...you are playing fast and loose with Scripture here.
what you wrote above is NOT what it says.
Here is what the TEXT says:
2 Corinthians 10:3-4
English Standard Version (ESV)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds
James replies:
This is Paul saying that we preach the Gospel, we don't conquer militarily with the sword to force people to say they are Christians.
AWM said:
Matthew 28:19,20: Jesus commands, "Make disciples of all nations..... teaching them to obey **EVERYTHING** I have commanded you!!"
James replies:
Would that include when Jesus told the group of soldiers to be good soldiers? Would that include making sure missionaries have weapons for self-defense when they go to dangerous areas?
AWM said:
I John 2:3-5: "We know that we have come to know Him **IF** we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the Truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in Him!!"
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 05:57 PM
James you are very good in explaining away the teachings of Christ and the Father in the New Covenant. The Christian Reformed Church is just about the most dead Satanic church in the USA and conforms to a greatly watered down version of God's Word.
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 06:35 PM
ET,:ROFL:, what you call the prosperity doctrine is not what I have been refering to as prosperity doctrine, what you desribed is ok with me, and I have experienced it many times, I give with a cheerful heart and I have people to hane me money quite a bit, but when I am given something extra I always do something extra, on top[ of what I would have done anyway, I give to those in need whenever I see a need, but my intentions are never to recieve I do it cause I want to do the right thing and show the love of christ but it does come back around , when I say the prosperity doctrine is evil I mean the men on tv in the 2000 dollar suits telling me to send them 596 dollars ands I will get back 5960 in return as a way to get rich!:ROFL::ROFL:
what you desribed is not really just a doctrine, its the word of God
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 06:57 PM
James, AWM is no longer on the forum... you must be having a senior moment blasr from the past:ROFL::ROFL:... George, George is his name and Passedover is his screen name.:laugh:
Elisha:ROFL:.. I don't pay Richard (Prophetic) any mind...:ROFL::yay:
How are the present day churches far different from the Biblical early churches?? The early churches worshipped in private homes and did not spend over 50% of theuir budget on luxurious chutrch buildings. The USA churches spend about 1% of their budget to support the really poor in foreign countries. The present churches believe it is OK to join armies and become professional killers. etc etc etc
Posted : 9 Jan, 2012 07:00 PM
Elisha love would not join in with the rest of the unbelif concerning prosperity and what the word of God teaches.
The Gospel has never been proclaimed on this forum since I have been on it.
Jesus is not concerned how much anyone's suit cost, but you better believe Satan is.
