Author	Thread: PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen
elishabroadway View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:15 PM I am sick to death of arguing about predestination! scripture plainly states who was predestinanted, the ones who were predestinanted are the ones God forknew, forknew what? well He forknew that they would believe and accept Jesus Christ as Lord, so that is exactly opposit of what calcinist say, they say God just randomly picked people for no apparnet reason and gave them faith , let me quote an article that holdingoutforhope posted earlier so that he chooses precisely him whom he foreknew would believe in him; and to him he gives the Holy Spirit, so that by doing good works he will as well attain eternal life. Now thats from an article that is suposed to be arguing against armainiens let me clear the air, armainiens or let me say I am well aware I didnt save myself, I am sick of the smugg comments that imply we think we save ourselfs, we know jesus did the work at the cross and his blood is what saves us through faith as a matter of fact we know that we dont choose God we know that we dont choose to get saved, we know that God puts a call on you and draws you to him before you can ever even begin to think of becoming saved, we know that within our own hearts we would never choose God, this is a fact and we are aware! The only thing that we differ on is the fact that we can chose to reject the call of God, thats it thats the one thing and I reject the notion that God doesnt do anything according to what men do!thats ludacris in the book of jonah God caled Jonah to go to nineveh, but jonah didnt want to we all kow the story about jonah and the fish! But think about this in the end Jonah did go to nineveh to preach what the Lord told hin topreach, it doesnt ever say exactly what the lord said to preach but what it does say is that Jonah told the people of nineveh that in fourty days they would be over thrown! But the people of nineveh repented and God spared them, based on Jonahs reluctant and late obedience God spared 100,000 people and many cattle! Now God told Jonah obviously that nineveh would be overthrown he told jonah to tell them that they would be over thrown If God did not intend to destroy or have the city overthrown allow it to e overthrown or whatever then that would make God a liar and we know he is not a liar! In the end of the story its obvious that God repented from bring punishment on nineveh as a result of jonah preaching to them and their repentence, Isnt that an example of God planing on destroy someone who isnt saved and wont repent and then that person hearing the word and we know faith comes buy hearing , and then they repented and God also repented from his wrath? I mean does that sound like the calvinist god that just decides how things are going to be and makes them that way? I dont thnk so God gave nineveh a choice and he also gave jonah a choice, granted jonah had some strong encouragment, but while in the fishes belly he repented as well and agreed to be obedient so faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word! If nineveh had not repented if they had cntined in their wickedness then they would have been destroyed! IF IF IF But God had mercy on them, it was his intention to destroy them IF! I already know that there are a million expalnations for the example I have found that supports my point of veiw and I dont really care I am not trying to argue as some others are and like some others think I am! HEre is what I know, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had a choice when I got saved, I most certainly could have chosen to continue to rebel and turn my back. I had been doign it for years ! I also know that God choosing those that he forknew would come to repentence is not predestination as the calivinists state it, predestination is based onGod forknowing what we will do. If never not one time sayd God predestinanted those hat he just decided he wanted to save It says he predestianted those that he forknew (would come to repentence) thats all ther is to it, so quote that scripture all you want to read it over and over you are only making my case for me! Go knows who will and who wont choose him, that makes much more sence that he just decides who will and wont choose him furthermore and I have said this before Gods soverignty afords him the right and the power to give us a choice, His soverginty does not put him inside of a box where he cant make the rules as he wants to,God sets the rules and he wants us to want to choose him! Saying we cant choose hi becasue it takes his soverignty is small minded and that satement in itself takes away Gods soverginty! HE can set the rules as he wishes and its his wish that we choose him, or shall I say that we have a choice, he actuly does the choosing he calls us but we certainlky have an opportunity to reject the calling! If we didnt have that choice to actuly reject or heed Gods call onour hearts then whats the point in any of it? Why ouldnt He just take those he chose right on up to heaven and forget all this life, isnt that the goal? If he is just choosing people randomly or not randomly but just choosing on a whim at his disgretion then whats the point in this life? Isnt it at least possible that God has set the rules up in such a way that he calls onour heart an woos us showing us that he is good but we still have the ultimate choice toreject him if we so decide to? I am goingt o say this again I t really ticks me off when they say we think we save ourself, that is a gross misstatement! No one thinks they save their self all we kow is if we wanted to continue inouir rebelion God would not stop us, and he would until a point contine to deal with us until he either turns us over to a reprebate mind, we die, or we finaly give in and repent and take up our cross and follow him! Please I dont want to argue I am so sick of arguing! This is the only thing that makes sence I dont even think its all armainien I think armaniens and calvinists are both wrong, I think the truth is in the middle somewhere but neither side will admit that the otherone has any truth to it at al and thats pride I admit calvinism has some truth to it, but its no all truth someolf it is garbage, and the same with armainins so e truth some garbage! I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong or admit I stil have things to learn but I do not want to argue and I do not ever respond well to someone aproaching with wioth a i am right and you are wrong atitude! again I am awasre without the ativity of the holy spirit in my life I could never be saved, I admit God has to call someone OI admit that Jesus died for the ones God knew would get saved! But God did not just choose wil nilly whom he would saved he predestinated those he forknew thats it , those that he forknew those are the ones Jesus died for , all that measn is God knew who would and wouldnt accept and those are theones Jesus died for, but each and every person that would have chosen Jesus could have been in that catagory its a matter of God nowing they wouldnt If they werent going to choose christ its not even worth discussing its a mute point becaus the bllod cant be for someone who wont ever have faith but if they had of had faith then the blood would have been for them, if they didnt choose to heed the call that is their fault not Gods choice! PS we sin becasue we are born sinners not the opposit of being sinners becasue we sin, we are all born with the exact same condition and the exact same opportunity , the reason we are predestianted is that God knew what we would do in advance becasue well duh he is God and he knows the begining from the end it doesnt mena he drwew a name out of a hat! So now that I have repeated myself about 5 times I will end this ranting Stil dont want to argue with anyone I amsick of arguing its getting old to the point of I amabout to bow out of the forums Post Reply
View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:28 PM Well I could post you a long argument about why that is not so, but I will make it simple. You are adding to the text. The words say "those who He foreknew". It is not referring to any action he foreknew they would make. It's specifically saying HE FOREKNEW THOSE. How can you blatantly twist scripture like this? Post Reply
View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:31 PM Well hope is it that you twist scripture as you do, take responsibility for your unbelief and quit trying to blame someone else. There is no man or woman left out of who he did foreknow Post Reply
View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:33 PM "so that he chooses precisely him whom he foreknew would believe in him; and to him he gives the Holy Spirit, so that by doing good works he will as well attain eternal life." Posting an arminian argument and claiming that it's a calvinist argument is...well strange. Please give the link for that quote. Post Reply
View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:36 PM PJ, if you understand the english language at all, you would realize that what he foreknew, was "those". You would be wrong in any english class if you tried to tell the teacher that what is foreknown in that sentence is an action by the people. Clearly it is stating that the people are known. This is basic grammar. Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:39 PM OK so are you saying those that arent "elect" God didnt know them? Obvioulsy God forknew every human being on this earth he created and made them to exist even your doctrin says so when you talk about and interpret the poter and the clay and one vessel to honor and one to dishonor, so its an implication the laew of inference is what we are dealing with him, I didnt ad it, its inferd by the scripture! If its as you say those that he forknew were predestined then that would be every single human being on the earth becasue God forknew as far as awquatintnces go everyone But he forknew those that would be saved that is inferd by the fact that the other would mean everyone on earth and we know thats not true.. Post Reply
View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:39 PM Elisha, I know it ticks you off, but if you believe salvation is based on something YOU do, then you do indeed believe you save yourself. Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:43 PM @holdingout...BTW this belongs to you so that he chooses precisely him whom he foreknew would believe in him; and to him he gives the Holy Spirit, so that by doing good works he will as well attain eternal life. TGhats you article by your people! So which is it? Its ok when its someone you agree with but when I say it then its not ok becasue it actuly supports what I believe to be true!! :waving: HEY PAJAMAS ITS GOOD TO BE ON THE SAME TEAM AGAIN LOVE YOU BROTHER:hearts: Post Reply
View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:49 PM First of all, back up your that the quote is from an article I posted where the intent of the quote is to prove God foreknew they would have faith. Second of all, nobody who agrees with reformed theology agrees with that quote... Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:51 PM indeed, the word of God says we are save by faith! It also says we must repent it also says we must be holy and without holyness no man wills see God, Thats rediculouse I know I didnt save myself what ticks me off is how smugg you all are withyour false humility! Its offensive! We know we didnt save our saelf Jesus attoneing bllod saves us and all we have to do is have faith to be saved , now having faith isnt that involve doing something doesnt faith come by hearing? So dont we have to hear the word of God in order to have saving faith? Do you not have to have godly sorow and then repent to become saved? or can you just clean your self up and never relly repent just start living a clean life never have godly sorrow never beg God"s forgivness and just starting living a clean life an claim that the Holy sspirt just came alive in you one day thats why your saved. Oh really then you dont have to have anykind of change of heart?> Isnt that doing something? NO you are wrong, what doesnt save us is our works chaning your life doesnt save you but in order to be saved you have to repent that is plain and repenting is doing something, what you say is way ut in left feild Jesus blood is what saves but it is possible to reject it Its just easier to say "oh lawdy da dida I dont have to do anything but just wllwr in the blessings of God" Its lazyness and its ludacris there must be a place when you repent then Jesus comes in your heart and the holy spirt indwells in you and changes you thats being born again Post Reply
View Profile History	PRedestianting those that He forknew is not the same as just choosing and maing it happen Posted : 1 Mar, 2012 08:51 PM "OK so are you saying those that arent "elect" God didnt know them?" Not at all, I'm saying what the verse said. He foreknew them. It's basic grammar. Post Reply

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