Thread: If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
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If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 12:48 PM
"What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh." [I Corinthians 6:16]
Just as it was then, so it is now; there are a lot of people in the world who do not comprehend that marriage is not the signing of a piece of paper, but the partaking of the fruit of the marriage bed [consensual relations/intercourse].
Here is the Torah on a man taking a wife, the very scripture passage Shaul/Paul is referring to:
"And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife." [Exodus 22:16]
Notice that the Father did not say, "Oh, I think you need a piece of paper signed by the both of you, and notarized for you to be married in My Eyes".
If a man lay with a woman, and a woman lay with a man, knowingly, voluntarily, and willingly, they are married in His Eyes. Those three components are what constitutes a binding agreement, in heaven and on earth.
Historically according to the ways of man, there are three ways a man and woman may enter into the marital union, with the Father it is more stricter than that.
Here are the three ways traditionally acceptable to man.
1) The Perutah
2) The Ketubah
3) Consensual Union/Intercourse
The Perutah was an ancient custom where a man would publicly offer a small coin [a perutah], and hand it to a woman. If she accepted, and received the coin [today's ring] then they were married, contract closed.
The Ketubah was identical, except that it surrounded a written contract called a Ketubah. The Ketubah contained the "rights" a woman could expect, including property right, and what she could expect from the marriage.
Consensual Relations/Intercourse, that closed the deal instantly!
With the Father, it gets much more serious, and can occur with a look [if you are undressing her men], a promise [to get her to acquiesce and lay with you], and definitely with both partaking of the fruits of the union that is being acted upon in His Eyes.
KNOWINGLY, occurs, when you willingly entertain, without ceasing, the possibility of engaging in consensual union.
VOLUNTARILY, occurs when you both are knowingly and willingly engaging in communications that are of this mature subject matter.
WILLINGLY, occurs when you knowingly and vuluntarily remove your clothes and partake of the marriage bed.
Consider this. Let's say that you go into a store and buy a box of chocolates, and are looking at the box, saying to yourself, "I may not be able to afford this box of chocalates!" You stand there and think, "Should I eat a piece or not?" Before you eat a piece, you can possibly return that box of chocolate, if it has not been opened, and you have not partaken of the fruits of that contract. But the moment you unwrap that box, and dig into the candies, you just became the undisputed owner of that box of candies.
The same thing goes for a man and woman. If you unwrap that candy and dig in, it is all over. That is your box of candy from now on!
Abba YaHUaH (YHUH) considers a man and woman, partaking of the fruits of the marriage, to be joined at the hip. If you unwrap it, and really even if you merely think in your heart of unwrapping it, then you already are married, and need to go on with life, for it is a done deal.
Here is Yahusha/Jesus telling you of how easy it is to commit adultery; the same intent of the heart applies to marriage:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." [Mattityahu/Matthew 5:27-28]
Pray that Elohim set a guard on your eyes, cause you to walk in wisdom when you speak, and cause you to never take the consensual act of marriage lightly!
"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge." [Ha-Ibrim/Hebrews 13:4]
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 02:49 PM
Interesting, however, how about the man or woman who has consensual relations with multiple partners, how is that viewed in YHWH eyes, do they have several wives or husbands, question mark.
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 06:05 PM
shalom716 writes:
"Interesting, however, how about the man or woman who has consensual relations with multiple partners, how is that viewed in YHWH eyes, do they have several wives or husbands, question mark."
That was an interesting question. Yes, men who have intercourse with "multiple partners", are married to each and every one, and that is perfectly acceptable within the Torah. This is why many men are mentioned in the scripture as being married to more than one woman. Elkanah the High Priest was married to Hannah [Samuel's mother] and Peninnah. Gideon was married to many women, as was David, Solomon, and the list goes on.
Let me explain, please..
The seed of darkness are not permitted to marry another woman, because the Torah does not concern them, and there is no basis for them to do so. Everything they do is wicked, but the righteous' lives are predestined. Only the true sons of Elohim ever married another woman, and were respectful unto her. It is sin for a seed of darkness to marry another woman, because there is no basis of law which permits it, and is in control of it. The Torah is that Law.
"If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish." [Exodus 21:10]
This is why Jesus/Yahusha stated that a man is not permitted to divorce a woman except for fornication. Men wanted the sex, and then sought to abuse the women because they did not want to support her, but Jesus/Yahusha forbid it, because the Father forbid such treatment. Therefore Yahusha/Jesus states, that divorce is only permitted in cases of fornication. Man you must remember is a type of G-d unto the woman, and since the Old Testament was going to refer to Abba YaHUaH (YHUH) as a polygynist, He has to permit man to have more than one, so that man would comprehend Him.
"The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother: And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their bre-sts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah." [Y'ḥez'qel/Ezekiel 23:1-5]
Furthermore, Satan is the Adulterer. This goes back to Adam and his being created in the image of Elohim. Satan goes to the woman, and deceives her, for she is a type of man, as Adam was a type of G-d with authority over her. This was permitted to occur so man would comprehend the spiritual types associated with the Garden story.
Scriptures states that man is made in the image of G-d, and I will seek to explain it.
As Elohim was alone, so He created man alone. Adam was created with the spoken word, but there was no counterpart for Adam. Abba did this deliberately. He made Adam as a type of Him Self being Alone, until He created man, who became a type of Elohim, Who then made woman so man would not be alone. This is why Man was created, and then woman was created afterwards, with her being a type of the creature, and Adam being a type of G-d. This is why women are to obey their husbands in all things. Man was given sole authority over the creation, and he was alone with YaHUaH (YHUH), without the woman, when this authority was given. This is what Shaul/Paul was referring to when he stated, "wives are to be obedient, as says the law".
A true woman of Elohim will comprehend that she is a type of man, in subjection to the man, who is a type of G-d over her.
Thus, woman is to have one husband, as a type man submitted to Elohim.
This is why Jesus/Yahusha stated that "if a man put away a woman, except for fornication, he was causing her to commit adultery, because a woman is not permitted to have more than one husband, as man is not to have but One Elohim!
Elohim was going to permit two women, the Hebrew and the Gentile, to come unto Him, and so He permitted it to occur in the physical world, as a type.
You need to remember first of all, that the scriptures concern Abba YaHUaH's (YHUH) chosen people, and not Judaism or Christianity, or any other of the daughters of the harlot. All of the events regarding these men who married two or more women, occurred not in one of Satan's kingdom cities, which is why we see Abraham leaving Ur, one of the most advanced citied the world - at that time - had ever seen, and Moses is called to leave Egypt/Mizraim. Abraham [Sarah and Hagar] and even Moses had two wives [Zipporah and Jochobed].
No place in the scripture do you read that plural marriage is a sin, but it is a sin for a man to abuse a woman, for she is a type of man, as man is a type of Elohim, Who would never abuse His bride. Shaul/Paul in the New Testament, and even Yahusha/Jesus speak of Abraham, and the patriarchs, but never in the context that their lifestyles were unrighteous, or that they were anything other than holy men of Elohim.
The New Testament has a passage in it, in which Jesus/Yahusha is portrayed as a polygynist, in Mattityahu/Matthew 25, when He takes 5 virgins and marries them all at the same time:
"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh." [Mattityahu/Matthew 25 1-13]
I hope this is not too heavy for you. You asked for the truth, and here it is..
This is the true teaching on marriage for the people of Abba YaHUaH (YHUH). It is written, "I am YahUaH (YHUH) and I change not!"
What has happened to the people and belief of this book? This is what you need to ask yourselves..
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 23 Aug, 2012 07:29 PM
"Man you must remember is a type of G-d unto the woman, and since the Old Testament was going to refer to Abba YaHUaH (YHUH) as a polygynist, He has to permit man to have more than one, so that man would comprehend Him."
I'm not following you here. Why would He have to permit man to do it so that they could comprehend it?
" This is why Jesus/Yahusha stated that "if a man put away a woman, except for fornication, he was causing her to commit adultery, because a woman is not permitted to have more than one husband, as man is not to have but One Elohim!"
It also states that if man looks at a woman with lust then he himself is committed adultery. However under the idea you have presented, man has the right to whatever woman He chooses, no?
"Shaul/Paul in the New Testament, and even Yahusha/Jesus speak of Abraham, and the patriarchs, but never in the context that their lifestyles were unrighteous, or that they were anything other than holy men of Elohim."
Right but in the case of David a murderer...Murder certainly is condemned so the idea that they would be spoken poorly of had the actions been wrong doesn't really stick with me. It also doesn't mean it was the plan from the beginning..."8 He said to them, �Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so." Matthew 19:8
We see from the beginning that the "two shall become one". If it follows that the idea of a divorce certificate was allowed because of "The hardness of heart" then it could also follow that polygamy was allowed as well for the same reason. I don't see polygamy implied from the beginning. You have stated that it's implied because God was going to allow two women to come to Him, He did it in the physical world for man as well. Yet, you haven't really shown that connection from scripture, unless I am missing something.
If Polygamy were a thing to be respected then why 1 Timothy 3 is it a disqualification for an overseer? We see the same in Titus 1. I believe the literal is a "one woman man", but the idea is the same. In Matthew 25, we do see the the idea of the groom with several versions. However it has always been that God is the groom for many. However we do not see that put forth in scripture as the standard for man...."The two shall become one".
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 24 Aug, 2012 12:06 AM
"Elohim was going to permit two women, the Hebrew and the Gentile, to come unto Him, and so He permitted it to occur in the physical world, as a type."
I have always taken the allegory of the two women to be consistent with the teaching of Galatians 4. Rather than seeing the two women as Hebrew and Gentile, I believe Scripture teaches that they represent Israel ( Flesh) and Israel (Spiritual). Gentile would have reference to all non-Israel (flesh). Would it not? In such case, it is clear from the Word that some Gentiles were always of Israel (spiritual). Am I missing something?
"The New Testament has a passage in it, in which Jesus/Yahusha is portrayed as a polygynist, in Mattityahu/Matthew 25, when He takes 5 virgins and marries them all at the same time:"
Isn't this merely an indication that election is both individual (i.e. God elects specific people by name) and also corporate (i.e all of the elect together make up one body)?
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 24 Aug, 2012 10:10 AM
graceundeserved writes:
"
If Polygamy were a thing to be respected then why 1 Timothy 3 is it a disqualification for an overseer? We see the same in Titus 1. I believe the literal is a "one woman man", but the idea is the same. In Matthew 25, we do see the the idea of the groom with several versions. However it has always been that God is the groom for many. However we do not see that put forth in scripture as the standard for man...."The two shall become one".
It is interesting that you did not argue with the Torah on the subject being in the will of Elohim..?
Secondly, it is interesting as well, that as you point out, it disqualifies one from being an overseer, not "it disqualifies it altogether"..?
Notice what the scripture states, "let the bishop be the husband of one wife" and "let the deacon be the husband of one wife", in I Timotios/Timothy 3.
There is no reprimand or discussion of it being an unbiblical practice, only that men seeking these two early church offices were to have only one wife. It does not state that the practice is unlawful in the church, a fact given that it specifically states, "the bishop" and "the deacon". If it were unrighteous or wicked, there would have been no need of distinctlion. Shaul/Paul is demonstrating the fact that one who seeks the service of deep ministry, must not be burdened with a lot of responsibility. Shaul/Paul himself, even though it was not required of him, set the standard of he himself not being able to even have "one" wife, so as not to be distracted.
The comment of "two shall become one flesh", again goes back to the law. It is a term associated with marriage. It does not say that a man may only be associated with one woman, but that when male and female are joined together, consensually, they are one.
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 24 Aug, 2012 11:33 AM
Do you have an example from scripture where several wives come together with a man and they all become one? You didn't really touch on the issue I brought up that certain things were allowed because of the sinful world, but were not ideal from the beginning. In the qualifications for overseers, husband of one wife is listed after it states that they must be above reproach. To me it follows that one who is above reproach should be the husband of one wife.
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 24 Aug, 2012 12:38 PM
Wives certainly doesn't seem to be the idea or the norm...
�If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26...I find it interesting that the wife here is singular which is at odds with children, brother, and sisters being plural.
I also don't see any plurality involved here in 1 Corinthians 7:2... But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
1 Corinthians 9:5...Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?...Does this deny the possibility of multiple wives? No, but why doesn't it ever speak of us having the right to take many wives instead of a wife?
And yes the two becoming one is speaking of marriage, but that is what we are talking about. Scripture says he will leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife and those two shall become one. There is no hint of polygamy there. Again, Polygamy in my opinion was one of those things that God allowed due to sin. You never responded to that issue.
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 24 Aug, 2012 04:14 PM
Here is where you have a problem. The word WIFE does not exist. It was never a real word. It is a made up word, to twist your mind, your understanding, so that you would not follow and obey the Torah, which lays out the basis of how to treat a woman, and what behavior constituted a marriage in regards to a woman. Wife is not in the Hebrew, nor is it in the Greek.
The men who translated the scripture chose to take the Greek word γυναῖκά (gunaika) which is used in the original Greek 53 times, and translated it to suit their purposes, as you can see below. Of the 53 times it is used in the New Testament, it is altered from "woman", to "on a woman", to "wife", to "a wife", to "his wife".
Here below γυναῖκά is translated three completely different ways, but is not as "wife" this time, but "woman". Gunaika is translated as "a woman", "a woman", and "woman.
INT: that perceptively-sees 'woman' with a view the
It is as I have stated. Your argument for 1 Corinthians 7:2, and 9:5, has no merit. Gunaika (γυναῖκά) obviously did not mean "wife" any more than it did "woman". It is an invention, a fiction, and without the Torah to keep you, you have no basis of morality. The men who translated the Greek twisted the word to suit what they wanted γυναῖκά to read. If it can read woman in every verse that has it as "wife", which is the same exact word, the twisted version of Christianity is dead. They did this to prop up and support their version of what they want man to think that "law" is, so they can enslave you to a Babylonian code. Instead of us relying upon the Torah as the law of the world, they twisted the word "ish" which means "woman" in the Hebrew, to mean "wife", and did the same thing in the Greek. They rewrote the scripture so that their version, would support their legal constructs. Their law is worthless, which is why there is no morality where the Torah is not obeyed.
This proves that Christian doctrine has no basis by which to exist, apart from the Torah.
If you throw out the corrupted view that the word WIFE is invalid, which you must do - because there is no such word, there remains no reason to listen to man. You have to return to Elohim! You have to return to the Torah.
If you had consensual relations, then you got hitched! You signed the contract in the Eyes of Elohim, by acceptance of, and the partaking of, the fruit of marriage.
Posted : 24 Aug, 2012 04:59 PM
Here is where you have a problem. The word WIFE does not exist. It was never a real word. It is a made up word, to twist your mind, your understanding, so that you would not follow and obey the Torah, which lays out the basis of how to treat a woman, and what behavior constituted a marriage in regards to a woman. Wife is not in the Hebrew, nor is it in the Greek.
*** This is not out of the NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon...
