Author	Thread: Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus?
Admin	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 8 Sep, 2012 03:19 PM "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." [Yohanan/John 17:6] Here we have Jesus/Yahusha teaching that He came to manifest the teachings of the Torah, the Nevi'im, the Prophets, and the Writings, which comprise what is known as the Tanakh, to the disciples and apostles. Why would Jesus be praying to the Father, telling Him that He manifested His name unto the men [bachiyr - "anointed ones"] that He had given to Jesus, which were the disciples and apostles, and that "THEY HAVE KEPT THY WORD", if this were not true? What WORD is Jesus talking about here? "THY WORD"...? You cannot teach that Jesus was talking about the New Testament, for the New Testament was about 300 years away ~ It was compiled in 300AD! Take this scripture [above] to the individual you call a "teacher", "a pastor", whatever you refer to him/her by, and ask them... "What WORD can Jesus be talking about in the Garden the night before His execution, if He is not referring to "THY WORD", or the Torah, the Nevi'im, the Prophets, and the Writings, which comprise what is known as the Tanakh? Here is the Father [Abba YaHUaH (YHUH), by His prophet Isaiah/Yeshayahu] speaking of His His Word, the TORAH, and how it will NOT return to Him void: "For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." [Yeshayahu/Isaiah 55:10-11] DO NOT BELIEVE MEN, BELIEVE THE WRITTEN WORD! Here we have Paul reiterating that the LAW HAS NOT BEEN DONE AWAY WITH, just because we now live by faith! "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." [Romi'im/Romans 3:31] "Let G-d be true and every man a liar!" Shalom! Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 8 Sep, 2012 06:25 PM Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. John 14:23-24 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. John 17:6 The Greek word used here is in both instances of "word" is "logon" which is derived from the Greek "logos" logon: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Short Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy. Logon is generally rendered as "word" or "the word". It is sometimes translated as: account/an account , commandment, saying, statement, the news, the matter, thing. So, we could certainly say that they kept the Tanakh. But it's fair to also say that they kept all of the words of Jesus above and beyond just the Tanakh. They kept every saying, statement, commandment, thing, matter, etc. This obviously would extend to those things recorded for us in the Gospels of the New Testament as well. Would you agree Natz? Shalom! Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 9 Sep, 2012 09:01 PM The point is, "What word is He referring to, if not the Torah, Nevi'im, Prophets, and Writings, if there is no New Testament, nor were any of the letters of the Natzarim written at this point, which would later become the B'rit Hadasha [New Testament]? I am not discussing the Greek meaning, but WHAT WORD? Shalom! Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 10 Sep, 2012 08:29 AM Hi guys! I wanted to put in some food for thought. Incoming wall of text! With the word "word" in John 17:6, maybe Jesus is referring to himself, in the same way that John does in John 1:14; "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Or He could be referring to God's commands, on which the Law and prophets are built in the first place (Matthew 22:34-39), or something else/more, entirely! See, when I look at the context of John 17:6, I get to verse 14 (in which Jesus is praying for those the Father has given him); "I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world." I get the idea from this scripture that the "word" Jesus speaks of is something that came with Him, something that was yet to be revealed to Man until His incarnation. Well may the Law and the Prophets testify to Jesus' righteousness for us (Romans 3:21-22), yet they are not His righteousness for us. With this in mind, I (for one) don't hold that the "word" Jesus talks about in John 17:6 is the same as the Tanakh, or any of its' components, that the Jews possessed before the Christ event. The irony is that I'm not sure how big an issue this really is. Peace, dudes! Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 10 Sep, 2012 08:32 AM Check that: "...in the same way that John <i>refers to him</i> in John 1:14..." Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 10 Sep, 2012 09:54 AM "I get the idea from this scripture that the "word" Jesus speaks of is something that came with Him, something that was yet to be revealed to Man until His incarnation. " Yes, Bloodnok. I am in agreement with you. This is what I was trying to highlight as well noting also that nothing Jesus delivered to them would in any way contradict the Tanakh. Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 10 Sep, 2012 12:35 PM I have a question...Is the Torah / OT the same thing as the Tanakh that is being mentioned in the Thread ???...If not...could someone please explain to me the differance ???...thanxs in advance...xo Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 10 Sep, 2012 12:41 PM Natz shared ~ The point is, "What word is He referring to, if not the Torah, Nevi'im, Prophets, and Writings, if there is no New Testament, nor were any of the letters of the Natzarim written at this point, which would later become the B'rit Hadasha [New Testament]? *** It is God's WORD in the Torah/OT to Abraham and All the Generations after...Hebrew~Israel and Gentile...from beginning to end...and the coming of the LORD~Yahshua~Messiah...xo Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 10 Sep, 2012 12:44 PM Tanakh ( Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvim) Torah- Pentateuch Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy Nevi'im - Prophets Joshua Judges I Samuel II Samuel I Kings II Kings Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel Hosea Joel Amos Obadiah Jonah Micah Nahum Habakkuk Zephaniah Haggai Zechariah Malachi Ketuvim - Writings Psalms Proverbs Job Song of Songs Ruth Lamentations Ecclesiastes Esther Daniel Ezra Nehemiah I Chronicles II Chronicles Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 11 Sep, 2012 11:20 PM Ohhhh k, I see now, TruthBeKnown. Sorry! :S And to add to what he said, GodsJude: "Tanakh" is an anagram for its three parts. Sometimes it's called the Torah because the Torah is at the Tanakh's core, a bit like when Christians use "the gospel" and "the cross" interchangeably. Post Reply
View Profile History	Jesus taught that men are to obey the LAW OF MOSES/ The Torah. Do you obey as the disciples and apostles were taught to by Jesus? Posted : 12 Sep, 2012 02:39 PM Hey Gents...TBK & B...I truely appreciate you both answering my question...thank you so very much...I happend to Googled the word and found a few online resourses...one I recall is Chabad.org...Ima be heading to the Book Store on my weekend adventure this weekend...Maybe Yahshua Messiah~ Christ Jesus will show me which one is OKY DOKY to purchase..HE always does...xo Post Reply

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