Why do people think for something to be true it has to be logical? I think the 5 point Calvinist is the worst offender and a good example of what I'm speaking of.
We are all individuals and God treats us accordingly. We are creations of God who can do what he pleases with what he created; answering to no one and judged by no one.
The Gospel is not about logic it is about relationship and relationships vary from person to person; God is unchanging however we are not, nor are we all the same.
Why do people think for something to be true it has to be logical? I think the 5 point Calvinist is the worst offender and a good example of what I'm speaking of.
* I don't believe the 5 points are logical, but biblical. If they were logical every one with a logical brain would believe. God only works through his word. God's word is truth, and only his chosen believe. God has his remnant and will gather all his sheep.
We are all individuals and God treats us accordingly. We are creations of God who can do what he pleases with what he created; answering to no one and judged by no one.
* agree, God does what he pleases, that is what his word says.He is the Holy Almighty God and there is no other. There are numerous who do not preach of the God of the bible. Many false teachers these days.
The Gospel is not about logic it is about relationship and relationships vary from person to person; God is unchanging however we are not, nor are we all the same.
* God made us in his image. He is the creator, we are the creatures and are to bring glory to him and enjoy him till he comes. In all that we do.
4 Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")
5 Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")
The Protestant Reformation brought about these 5 Solas and I believe GOD's purpose to have every human being access to HIS written WORD and Through HIS Son Christ Jesus...access to HIM...personaly...:yay:...xo
My belief is what God says we are all dead. Colossians 2 :13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
From birth we are born in sin, because of Adam being our first father. Psalms 58 :3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.
Romans 5 :12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
5sparrows: "I think the 5 point Calvinist is the worst offender and a good example of what I'm speaking of."
I'd agree partly. Each of those 5 points are interdependent, but it almost seems like circular reasoning, and I wouldn't say it's very logically planned outside of it's own closed system.
dljrn04: "Colossians 2 :13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses."
I believe this is talking about being slain by the law and found guilty. Paul talks about being alive before the knowledge of the law, but when the law was brought before him, sin was made apparent and he was rightly labeled as guilty. The law slayed him and made him dead in trespasses.
Romans 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
And also, in the parable of the prodigal son, his Father refers to him as being dead, but "when he came to himself", he repented.
"And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found."
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."
Technically, it is a person who is regenerated by God under Calvinistic beliefs that needs no repentance, because God forces them to have life and be saved before repentance. A sinner that repents is more valuable to God than 99 people who need no repentance.
The bible talks about evil/sinful people loving others and giving good gifts to children, that we were created in God's image, etc...I don't see anywhere that the Calvinist view of being "totally dead and unable to do anything at all" really fits, especially when God literally commands that men should do differently.
"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent."
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"Calvinists often pose questions along the lines of, �If 2 people are given the same grace, why does one receive it and another reject it?� This question was popularized on the internet by John Hendryx at monergism.com, who in one rendition of this particular fallacy states: �If prevenient grace places us in a neutral state, then what motivates one man to believe and not another? � What principle in him made him choose what he did?� [A Prayer That a Synergist Won't Pray (An Open Challenge to All Synergists), John Hendryx]
The problem:
Hendryx�s wording is very telling, he asks �what made him choose?�, when the defining property of a libertarian decision is that nothing caused it to be one way or another except the person�s own will. While free will certainly is subject to influence, if some external principle coerced, impelled, or simply necessitated a specific decision, then the choice could no longer be called �libertarian.�
To break down Hendryx�s question:
The context (note the title I listed above) is that Hendryx is addressing the question to Synergists (people like myself who believe that there are at least some non-necessitated choices), trying to show what he perceives as problems in our beliefs. His putting forth of the question, �What principle in him made him choose what he did?�, amounts to him asking what necessitates our decisions, since anything that makes someone choose a specific way would constitute necessitation of that choice.
So given that,
1. The question is posed to people who believe in libertarian (non-necessitated) decisions
2. The question challenges the libertarian view by asking what necessitates peoples� specific choices
Hendryx�s question effectively boils down to him asking,
�What necessitates choices that aren�t necessitated?�
This line of questioning is not only logically absurd, but also requires assuming that all of our decisions must be necessitated, when that is in fact the proposition he is trying to prove. This fallacy is more formally known as �begging the question,� a form of circular reasoning.
Calvinistic apologists often employ such fallacies in attempts to prove that libertarian free will is nonsensical, but looking to God as an example of how the will functions, we can see that a being with a free will can make choices without them being necessitated by something outside of its own will. For example, there was no principle in God that impelled Him to save anyone, but He chose to anyway. If God is truly free, then it�s absurd to argue that that there are conceptual problems with the very idea of free will, and hence no tenable logical basis to argue that it couldn�t exist in human beings."
The five points of Calvinism�known as the Tulip�all hangs or falls on the 1st point �T�
Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
I find it hard to believe or accept this notion of Total Inability as the book of Job�historically and chronologically is the 1st Book of the Bible and not Genesis�Job was a Gentile�Pagan from Uz�not a Hebrew nor Jew�makes no mention of Abraham nor Moses nor the Torah/Law...and GOD found him most excellent!!!�GOD even offered to satan the task of Proving GOD wrong in HIS view of Job�
Also...in Genesis...it was lucifer/satan that mislead Eve...he sinned in his rebellion against GOD along with his 1/3rd of the angels...cast down to earth...I believe the Original sin lays with lucifer/satan and not man...xo
