One of the most popular beliefs of the day is that God loves everybody, and the very fact that it is so popular with all classes ought to be enough to arouse the suspicions of those who are subject to the Word of Truth. God�s love toward all His creatures is the fundamental and favorite tenet of Universalists, Unitarians, Theosophists, Christian Scientists, Russellites, etc. No matter how a man may live � in open defiance of Heaven, with no concern whatever for his soul�s eternal interests, still less for God�s glory, dying, perhaps with an oath on his lips � notwithstanding, God loves him, we are told. So widely has this dogma been proclaimed, and so comforting is it to the heart which is at enmity with God, we have little hope of convincing many of their error. That God loves everybody, is, we may say, quite a modern belief. The writings of the church fathers, the Reformers or the Puritans will (we believe) be searched in vain for any such concept. Perhaps the late D. L. Moody � Captivated by Drummond�s �The Greatest Thing in the World� � did more than anyone else in the last century to popularize this concept.
It has been customary to say God loves the sinner though He hates his sin. But that is a meaningless distinction. What is there in a sinner by sin? Is it not true that his �whole head is sick� and his �whole heart faint,� and that �from the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness� in him? (Isa. 1:5,6) Is it true that God loves the one who is despising and rejecting His blessed Son? God is Light as well as Love, and therefore His love must be a holy love. To tell the Christ-rejector that God loves him is to cauterize his conscience as well as to afford him a sense of security in his sins. The fact is, the love of God is a truth for the saints only, and to present it to the enemies of God is to take the children�s bread and cast it to the dogs. With the exception of John 3:16, not once in the four Gospels do we read of the Lord Jesus, the perfect Teacher, telling sinners that God loves them! In the book of Acts, which records the evangelistic labors and messages of the apostles, God�s love is never referred to at all! But when we come to the Epistles, which are addressed to the saints, we have a full presentation of this precious truth � God�s love for His own. Let us seek to rightly divide the word of God and then we shall not be found taking truths which are addressed to believers and misapplying them to unbelievers. That which sinners need to have brought before them is the ineffable holiness, the exacting righteousness, the inflexible justice and the terrible wrath of God. Risking the danger of being misunderstood let us say � and we wish we could say it to every evangelist and preacher in the country � there is far too much presenting of Christ to sinners today (by those sound in the faith), and far too little showing sinners their need of Christ, i.e., their absolutely ruined and lost condition, their imminent and awful danger of suffering the wrath to come, the fearful guilt resting upon them in the sight of God: to present Christ to those who have never been shown their need of Him, seems to us to be guilty of casting pearls before swine.
If it be true that God loves every member of the human family, then why did our Lord tell His disciples �He that hath My commandments, and keepeth hem, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him.� (John 14:21,23)? Why say �he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father�? if the Father loves everybody? The same limitation is found in Prov. 8:17: �I love them that love Me.� Again we read, �Thou hatest all workers of iniquity� (Psa 5:5)! �God is angry with the wicked every day.� (Psa. 7:11) �He that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God� � not �shall abide,� but even now � �abideth on him.� (John 3:36) Can God �love� the one on whom His �wrath� abides? Again, is it not evident that the words, �The love of God which is in Christ Jesus� (Rom. 8:39) marks a limitation, both in the sphere and objects of His love? Again, is it not plain from the words �Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated� (Rom. 9:13) that god does not love everybody? Again, it is written, �For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth.� (Heb. 12:6) Does not this verse teach that God�s love is restricted to the members of His own family? If He loves all men without exception, then the distinction and limitation here mentioned is quite meaningless. Finally, we would ask, Is it conceivable that god will love the damned in the Lake of Fire? Yet, if He loves them now He will do so then, seeing that His love knows no change � He is �without variableness or shadow of turning�!
Turning now to John 3:16, it should be evident from the passages just quoted that this verse will not bear the construction usually put upon it. �God so loved the world. . .� Many suppose that this means the entire human race. But �the entire human race� includes all mankind from Adam till the close of earth�s history: it reaches backward as well as forward! Consider, then, he history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the savior came to the earth, lived here �having no hope and without God in the world,� and therefore passed out into an eternity of woe. If God �loved� them, where is the slightest proof thereof? Scripture declares �Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.� (Acts 14:16) Scripture declares that �And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.� (Rom. 1:28). To Israel God said, �You only have I known of all the families of the earth.� (Amos 3:2). In view of these plain passages who will be so foolish as to insist that God in the past loved all mankind! The same applies with equal force to the future. Read through the book of Revelation, noting especially chapters 8 to 19, where we have described he judgments which will be poured out from Heaven on this earth. Read of the fearful woes, the frightful plagues, the vials of God�s wrath, which shall be emptied on the wicked. Finally, read the twentieth chapter of the Revelation, the great white throne judgment, and see if you can discover there the slightest trace of love.
What about Romans 5:8? "But God commendeth His love for us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Even though we were sinners, God loved us to the point where He sent His son Jesus Christ to redeem us.
Also, 1 John 4:9-10 -- "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins." God clearly was the one to take the first step, because goodness knows none of us deserved it. If God didn't love us first, we'd all be doomed.
I know it may seem very confusing. It was to me when i first hear the truth God is sovereign, and does not love everyone. It was a very foreign concept to me, because had grown up in a Baptist church who read from the bible. The only problem was they used that holy infallible word of God as a buffet, they only picked and chose what verses they could twist to fit their man made doctrine that God loves everyone. Please pray for the Holy Spirit to take the scales off your eyes so you also may see the truth of God's word.
The first proof text you shared is a awesome verse written to the saints in Rome. Not to unbelievers. Look at the first chapter of Romans 1:1 PAUL a servant of JESUS Christ called to be an Apostle,]put apart to preach the Gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his Prophets in the holy Scriptures)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord (which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh,
4 And declared mightily to be the Son of God, touching the Spirit of sanctification by the resurrection from the dead)
5 By whom we have received grace and Apostleship (that obedience might be given unto the faith) for his name among all the Gentiles,
6 Among whom ye be also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all you that be at Rome BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS: Grace be with you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Also 1 John this proof text you shared is also a blessed assurance to the believer, not written to the unbeliever. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not: and if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just. He did not say the whole entire human race, John is very specific.
In 1 John 2:1, you are correct in that at that point John is referring to believers only, saying that those who have trusted in Christ as their Savior have him as an advocate with the Father.
But as far as 1 John 4:9-10 and Romans 5:8 and surrounding verses are concerned, I don't see your logic anywhere and it has nothing to do with scales over my eyes either. Regardless of whether or not the saints mentioned were called by God (just set that aside for the moment), at some point in their life they were not saved, unbelievers, and sinners like you and me.
"But God commendeth His love for us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."
It says that very clearly. God showed his love for sinners. I don't see that you could possibly get around that, no matter what you believe about election.
I think you are very dangerously taking things out of context. If you use the excuse that the books of the New Testament were written only to these specific churches, you have they danger of believing that a lot of the text does not apply to you today.
In fact, I'm rather curious as to what verses you have to back up a belief that God loves the believers of today. Just curious.
Romans 1:7 To all you that be at Rome BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS: Grace be with you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
"Regardless of whether or not the saints mentioned were called by God (just set that aside for the moment)," Why should we set that aside? Because it doesn't fit with your claim? Read the verse and please don't set aside any of the words because they are a very important part of the understanding of the entire passage. The fact is that they were BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS. Therein, lies the difference between the Elect and the non-Elect - one is beloved and called and the other is hated and damned.
The young lady that responded to your question not only did NOT take things out of context but rather, she was the one who actually provided the context. That context is the portion which you wished to "just set aside for the moment"
The key as she explained to you in her response is that these passages are written to the Elect, the chosen, the beloved of God. -- that is the "us".
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,TO THE SAINTS which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as HE HATH CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD that we should be holy and without blame before him IN LOVE:
5 Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein HE HATH MADE US ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power TO US-WARD WHO BELIEVE, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
1. AND YOU HATH HE QUICKENED, WHO WERE DEAD IN TRESPASSES AND SINS
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 BUT GOD, WHO IS RICH IN MERCY, FOR HIS GREAT LOVE WHEREWITH HE LOVED US,
5 EVEN WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN SINS, HATH QUICKENED US TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, (BY GRACE YE ARE SAVED;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward US through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God:
9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
10 FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
You asked, "It says that very clearly. God showed his love for sinners. I don't see that you could possibly get around that, no matter what you believe about election."
I've posted Ephesians 1 and 2 (above) and highlighted some relevant portions that speak directly to this question.
When I said "Regardless of whether or not the saints mentioned were called by God (just set that aside for the moment)," I was making the point that those very same people in that verse were nonetheless sinners. It is a statement of fact. "While we were yet sinners" is a statement of fact regardless of whether they were called, elect, men, women, purple, or whatever. It clearly establishes the people in the verse as sinners. That was my point.
Romans 3:21-25 --- "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: FOR ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God."
Whether you are talking about the saved or the unsaved, we are all sinners in need of a Savior. The elect, however you wish to define that, began as sinners. Therefore God loves sinners.
And I don't disagree that believers are all those things that you outlined in the passages. Certainly it is so. It doesn't invalidate my point at all.
God loves His elect whether or not they are currently "sinners". This is why in time all of the Elect will be saved. Precisely because he loves them and has chosen to save them.
God hates the non-elect. This is why they forever remain sinners with no hope of salvation. They are predestined to damnation.
This is the central point. I included the chapters in Ephesians to hopefully provide you with some greater clarity.
