Author	Thread: Free-will doctrine
dljrn04 View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 23 Jul, 2012 04:33 PM Free-will doctrine�what does it do? It magnifies man into God; it declares God's purposes a nullity, since they cannot be carried out unless men are willing. It makes God's will a waiting servant to the will of man, and the whole covenant of grace dependent upon human action. Denying election on the ground of injustice, it holds God to be a debtor to sinners, so that if he gives grace to one he is bound to do so to all. It teaches that the blood of Christ was shed equally for all men and since some are lost, this doctrine ascribes the difference to man's own will, thus making the atonement itself a powerless thing until the will of man gives it efficacy...http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0502.htm Post Reply
View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 04:04 PM Agapeton, For the public record, I apologize for the way that I worded this "You make lots of blunders in your reasoning". I definitely can see how that comes across. It's an overreach in my choice of wording. Any more back and forth is going to take this thread way off topic. I am happy to continue our dialogue elsewhere. Post Reply
teach_ib View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 08:34 PM " Jesus did enter the human race, the world, when He was born a baby...and lived in the human race until He was crucified." HOH wrote: "Oh but now you are changing the definition. So sometimes it means every single person and sometimes it means the human race as a whole?" Me: As GodsJude posted earlier there are multiple connotations to the word World, origin Kosmos. �And EVERY single person is part of the human race. �I really didn't think basic definitions of common words would need to be defined for adults on this site. � HOH wrote: "Why must John 3:16 mean what you say it means?"� Me: because there is no other explanation that makes sense. �Substituting all the definitions of the word World will narrow the choice down. � So I tried to figure out what your definition/intent of the word World is by the paragraph you posted from DA Carson...the best I can decipher is he interpreted the occurrence to mean "wicked people". Post Reply
View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 08:42 PM Time to let this thread die out... If after reflection of the all the territory that has been covered here, there are remaining questions the better thing to do at this point would be to start a new thread for those specific questions. This thread is causing to much offense. Post Reply
teach_ib View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 09:10 PM Bob wrote: "I want to address some additional false teaching that was proffered here by Teach_ib. In her attempt to "add context" what she does is intentionally misread and add to the actual text. Why?? because she needs to do that to make her case for her false teaching." Me: �I didn't think I needed to post the rest of the verses as most had been posted. �Obviously I must be absolutely precise in what I post - I made some false assumptions that people would read the dialogue in the chapter...usually i post all the verses but for time and space, I opted not to... John 3:2�The same [Nicodemus] CAME to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Bob, What part of CAME is not clear? �Your reference to Matthew 16:17�"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." is a stretch. Bob wrote: "She then states he came because "he wanted to know more". Really? How does she know this? What the passage tells us is the Nicodemus came making a declaration not asking questions.� So her conclusion is just patently false. " Me: need I remind you that Jesus could read minds? �As He did with the disciples and the Pharisees? The following verses, through verse 21 explain why Jesus came and how someone can be saved from perishing and receive everlasting life, how one can be born again through BELIEF in Jesus' redemptive sacrifice... John 3:16�For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Post Reply
teach_ib View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 09:23 PM Joshua 24:15�And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. ***** here it was a clear CHOICE for Israelites to make...serve God or serve the gods... Numbers 21:8�And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.� 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. ***** an example of Christ in the OT which Jesus referred to in the NT. �the Israelites disobeyed God, God sent poisonous serpents to punish them. �The only way for them to live was to CHOOSE to look at the fiery serpent lifted up on the pole. �The serpent was there for ALL of them, but if they did not have the faith that God would save them when they looked upon it and CHOSE not to look, they DIED. John 3:14�And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: Where is the Refuting of the choice in these passages? Post Reply
View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 09:26 PM Right, so Jesus read Nicodemus mind and knew that Nicodemus was thinking "how can I be born again" Yet Nicodemus had no idea what the concept was until Jesus brought it up so it could not have been in his mind to be read there. Not to mention the fact that Jesus reading minds has nothing to do with how you got that alleged information because it is NOT written in the passage. Did you read Jesus' mind to know that he read Nicodemus mind? You are getting more and more ridiculous. Let this thread go............. Post Reply
View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 09:32 PM Right, so Jesus read Nicodemus mind and knew that Nicodemus was thinking "how can I be born again" Yet Nicodemus had no idea what the concept was until Jesus brought it up so it could not have been in his mind to be read there. Not to mention the fact that Jesus reading minds has nothing to do with how you got that alleged information because it is NOT written in the passage. Did you read Jesus' mind to know that he read Nicodemus mind? You are getting more and more ridiculous. Let this thread go............. This is a perfect example of a carnally minded response. Yes Bob you need to stop commenting on the post. Post Reply
teach_ib View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 09:34 PM Jesus stated that Nicodemus was a well learned leader...He knew what Nicodemus needed to know to go to the next level of understanding. What was missing was a spiritual birth...one cannot understand spiritual things until the second birth...the spiritual birth. By his question to Jesus on how to be born again, Nicodemus wanted to understand more. This passage is really pretty straightforward unless someone wants to make it complicated...turn it into nonsense... Post Reply
View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 09:41 PM Both of you are single and in the same age bracket. Just sayin' :laugh: The Lord works in mysterious ways, right? Don't be shy P.J. :excited: Post Reply
View Profile History	Free-will doctrine Posted : 26 Jul, 2012 10:15 PM Teaching...Since you couldn't understand Carson in full, try reading it this way...Jesus loved the fallen sinful world in this way, He sent...." Now you claim that no other way to read it makes sense and I say, hogwash. There is no other way you want it to make sense. It's not about whether adults can understand a simple definition. It's about what the scriptures are actually teaching us at the time the word is used. Any adult can read John's writings and understand that we are not to use some basic definition for every occurrence of "world". As Bob said, maybe it's time to let this one die. I'm not really seeing the progress here. Post Reply

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