Theologian and Bible Scholar Adam Clarke's Commantary on I Corinthians chapter 14: Verse 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches This was a Jewish ordinance; women were not permitted to teach in the assemblies, or even to ask questions. The rabbins taught that "a woman should know nothing but the use of her distaff." And the sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, as delivered, Bammidbar Rabba, sec. 9, fol. 204, are both worthy of remark and of execration; they are these: yisrephu dibrey torah veal yimsaru lenashim, "Let the words of the law be burned, rather than that they should be delivered to women."
This was their condition till the time of the Gospel, when, according to the prediction of Joel, the Spirit of God was to be poured out on the women as well as the men, that they might prophesy, i.e. teach. And that they did prophesy or teach is evident from what the apostle says, 1 Corinthians 11:5, where he lays down rules to regulate this part of their conduct while ministering in the church.
But does not what the apostle says here contradict that statement, and show that the words in chapter 11, should be understood in another sense? For, here it is expressly said that they should keep silence in the church; for it was not permitted to a woman to speak. Both places seem perfectly consistent. It is evident from the context that the apostle refers here to asking questions, and what we call dictating in the assemblies. It was permitted to any man to ask questions, to object, altercate, attempt to refute, but this liberty was not allowed to any woman. St. Paul confirms this in reference also to the Christian Church; he orders them to keep silence; and, if they wished to learn any thing, let them inquire of their husbands at home; because it was perfectly indecorous for women to be contending with men in public assemblies, on points of doctrine, cases of conscience, a woman received any particular influence from God to enable her to teach, that she was not to obey that influence; on the contrary, she was to obey it, and the apostle lays down directions in chapter 11, for regulating her personal appearance when thus employed. All that the apostle opposes here is their questioning, finding fault, disputing, Jewish men were permitted to do in their synagogues; together with the attempts to usurp any authority over the man, by setting up their judgment in opposition to them; for the apostle has in view, especially, acts of disobedience, arrogance, woman would be guilty who was under the influence of the Spirit of God.
But-to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
This is a reference to Genesis 3:16: Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. From this it is evident that it was the disorderly and disobedient that the apostle had in view; and not any of those on whom God had poured out his Spirit.
Verse 35. For it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
The Jews would not suffer a woman to read in the synagogue; though a servant or even a child, had this permission; but the apostle refers to irregular conduct, such conduct as proved that they were not under obedience, 1 Corinthians 14:34.
Verse 36. Came the word of God out from you?
Was it from you that other Churches received the Gospel? Are you the mother Church? that you should have rules, and orders, and customs, different from all others; and set yourselves up for a model to be copied by all the Churches of Christ? Or came it unto you only? Are you the only Church of God? Are there not many others founded before you that have no such customs, and permit no such disorders?
The Greek of 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 and Dr. Spiros Zodhiates, Greek theologian and Bible Scholar says: Under no circumstances does the injunction of Paul in 1 Cor. 14:34 indicate that women should not utter a word at any time during the church service�Furthermore, the word gunaikes (1135 in v. 34) should not be translated �women� in its generic sense, but as �wives.� It is wives who should submit (hupotassomai, 5293) to their own husbands (andras, 435, v. 35). The whole argument is not the subjection of women to men in general, but of wives to their own husbands in the family unit as ordained by God.
Again, Dr. Zodhiates made this interesting point: Observe 1 Timothy. 2:11. It does not say women but a woman, and better still, a wife. The word in Greek is gune (1135), which indicates either a woman generically speaking or a wife, depending on the context. In this instance, since it stands in apposition to the word andros (the genitive singular of aner here meaning only �husband� and not �man� generically, 435), it must be translated as �a wife.� It is because of the mistranslations of these passages that the Christian world has had so much difficulty in understanding the proper position of a woman in the Christian Church�Verse 12 is again poorly translated in the K.J.V. It should not be �But I suffer not a woman to teach,� but �I suffer not a wife�.�
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As not to make this so very long I thought it very imortant that you receive this spiritual knowledge so that you may properly understand these passages you keep posting trying to use against the work I am doing in ministry. Maybe you will gain some spiritual knowledge and your eyes will be opened.
Again, what is your purpose, intent and hoped fulfillment?... am I suppose to stop doing what I am doing just because you misunderstand scripture and think women are not to teach or preach God's word?..., hope this is not your point that I or any of the other women in minstry would stop my/our work , just because YOU don't believe women are called to teach or preach... I know something bound be wrong with ya spiritually if this is what you're thinking... as I've said I would rather obey God than anything you say or think, or anyone else for that matter who try to hinder or stop me from doign what God has called me to do...
Yes...a woman...Jesus asked a woman to Go and tell His Deciples He did what He said He would do and to Expect Him in Galalea...this does not make a woman any better than a man...it only shows that GOD will choose whome and when for what ever He chooses...remember...He is NO Respector of person's [ including woman ]...It is an Honor & Prevlage for a woman to be Called of GOD to Teach & Minister...Mary Magdaleen "Ministered" unto Jesus*...Aguilla's woman Prisilla "Taught"...GOD's ways are not our ways...none the less...we All do as best we can with what God has Given unto us to do...let us All be supportive of each others Gift & Calling...xo
The 3 officers in the church are {*1*}Overseers {Sometimes translated Bishops};{*2*} Deacons and {*3*} Elders; and must also be men.
I Timothy 3:1,2: "If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer or Bishop he desires a noble task, Now the Overseer or Bishop must be above reproach, the:rolleyes: *HUSBAND* of but one wife!" Titus 3:7,9: "An Overseer {Or Bishop} is entrusted with God's Work....and must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it!"
I Timothy 3:13: "A Deacon must be the :rolleyes:*HUSBAND* of but one wife and must manage his children and household well."
Titus 1:5: "An Elder must be blameless, the :rolleyes:*HUSBAND* of but one wife!"
2 Timothy 3:16: **ALL SCRIPTURE** is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man:rolleyes: {Or woman} of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work!!"
2 Timothy 4:2 "*PREACH THE WORD*, correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men {And women}will not put up with sound doctrine!"
i Timothy 2:11,12: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man, she must be silent!"
I Corinthians 14:33,34: "As in ***ALL*** the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission!"
Now ETCallhome has given the following reasons that the above God-Breathed Words do not have to be obeyed:
" In the church, men have abandoned the call of God on their lives, and left the house of God, and the women are in position to take care of what God had ordained for men just as He ordained for men to head of the household but they abandoned that position, and have abandoned the position in God's house, and have abandoned the ministry of the gospel for homosexual relationships, have been abusive and not good stewards of God's finances, His house or his flock,... BUT GOD knew these things would be , so He started everything into action to replace men who would abandon His house and work in the ministry in the beginning. He is replacing men with women to get His work done for His kingdom... this was not His plan, but do you think He will stop His work just because men are out of place? No His focus on fulfillment of His kingdom, just as He says, if you don't open your mouth to give Him praise and worship, the rock will cry out in your stead... therefore, if men don't care to be in ministry over His house, God knows the women will replace them instead...
The very first person to carry the good news about the resurrected Savior was a WOMAN. The very first person Jesus spoke to before even speaking to His own disciples was a WOMAN! So why would Jesus give His very first words spoken AFTER His resurrection to a WOMAN to be carried to men who had walked with Him for three years, if women were not allowed to speak in public, they women went running carrying the gospel of Jesus' resurrection and told everybody in he city? Spreading the Good News of Jesus!
The gospel of Jesus Christ's resurrection was first brought forth by a woman... that's awesome to think about! Jesus told the women to do what?... "Go tell my disciples that, He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see Him."
Is the very first gospel message given to anybody after the resurrection, and it was given and spoken to and by a woman, to be carried to the disciples of Jesus, telling them the Good News that Jesus had just risen from the dead.
One would think that this message should have been given to the disciples {Like John}and they should have been the ones spreading the Good News of the Resurrection. BUT this word of God was given to a WOMAN!...
Where were the men?... same place many are today, taking care of their own selfish business, doubting God's call and His word, fearful, abandoning God's work in ministry, and caring for matters that are not of God or that of the kingdom of God... So who does God call upon to carry His word to the people whom He knows He can trust and will be faithful? ... WOMEN, who will lay aside everything to follow Jesus Christ! AMEN!..."
It is interesting to note that God chose 40 men:rolleyes: to write the 66 books in God's Word and we do not have one verse in the NT that tells of a woman preaching to men in the church.
Ephesians 5:22: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the *HEAD* of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands!":angel:
Obviously Richard wants to continue to Bash :boxing: Ella out of the Ministry :angel: with scripture Out of Context :dunce:...:rolleyes:...Go figer...xo
Jude said: Obviously Richard wants to continue to Bash Ella out of the Ministry with scripture Out of Context ......Go figer...xo
Ella says: You know, Jude, Richard may think this, but he can bash me out of nothing that doesn't belong to him:ROFL:... I know he thinks lkiem a fool if he think I am to stop doing what I do at his twisted word and misunderstanding and nointerpretation of scriptures. As Job said, man, you talk like a foolish person:excited:
I'm in the ministry of the Lord and I teach and preach God's Word, and I don't ever recall saying not one word from the mouth of richard when I teach or preach the word:ROFL:
Richard, again what church did you say you were associated with? And who is your pastor? And what active office do you hold in the church, or are you involved with in your church?
I am approved by God, not Richard.
One thing I will agree with women are not called as Bishops, or elders,or pastors, but if there is a position for a pastor and there is no availbe man, God will allow a woman to fill that position, as I noted the first shepherdress. But they are called as deaconness, including Prophetess in case you didn't know Ricahrd. And since God said He would pour out His spirit... not Ricahrd;s spirit upon all flesh, I don't understand why Ricard is trying to dictate where God sends His spirit or who God choses to pour out His Spirit upon... I'm plost for words at his concern of me being in ministry.... And in case if you didn't know a prophetess is a call higher than being a pastor of a church, and a deaconness is on the same order as the pastor, if you understand the qualifications of what is written... but then again...:rolleyes:
This is a dead end discussion going no where as far as Im concerned... Richard has heard the truth of what scripture says, and whatever is his beliefs that's between him and God. Last time I heard, God doesn't have to explain to anyone why He does what He does when He does it... I just pray Richard is doing what God has called him to do and God is well pleased with his ministry work, and Richard is pleased with his own ministry work for the kingdom of God.
I also understand that Richard has spiritually learned more than he has ever known since being on CDFF, and this is the only reason God has led me to continue commenting in this matter, because each time I give, or Jude, give Richard a word of knowledge he never knew, and he goes in search for information to either disagree or receive it... he is learning, so it doesn't matter at least he is doing his research something he has never done and is learning... and guess what?... his spiritual learning has been under the teaching of WOMEN!:ROFL: take a bow Minister Jude:bow::bow:
PJ, you're right twisted information, makes cause for twist views...:laugh:
How much money did we raise in the tithes and offering??... we need ot buy some Sunday School books for Bro. Richard /:laugh::dancingp:
Richard, you keep posting scriptures pretaining to married men and women in a covenant marriage relationship. Husbands and wives...geeeesss, can't you see this?
What background knowledge do you have about the church at Ephesus, or Corinth. Go and read about these churches and then come back so we can discuss...
All Righty Then...:glow:...well now...the ball has been tossed back & fourth betwix Richard & Ella not seeing eye to eye on a topic here...I believe it is best to settle the score by saying...You both are Stuborn and set in your ways...You both believe you are right and the Other wrong...I remember Paul speaking about the divisions betwix brethern...I also know that Jesus would find this behavior dis-heartning...where is that Scripture that says somethin like...better to take the blame to settle the dis-agreement ???...Anyone ???...I'd rather see ya both :buddies:...drunk on the Word than :boxing:...each other...LOVE YA BOTH...an I be bowing :bow: to God only...cuz with out Him I am and can do nothing good...xo
Richard said: It is interesting to note that God chose 40 men to write the 66 books in God's Word and we do not have one verse in the NT that tells of a woman preaching to men in the church.
Ellas says, Yes, its very interesting... God is waesome, He can do what He pleases! BecauseHE GOT IT GOING ON LIKE THAT... HE'S GOD!
Jesus walked the earth in ministry with 12 men He empowered to be apostles, and interesting that of the 12, only Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, Peter, and Jude wrote letters in the New Testament, and Paul who went around killing Christian andpersecuting the church, was a Pharisee educated in the law, was no where ot be found on the Day of Oentacost, and never even believed in Jesus Christ, nor wlaked with Jesus in His earthly ministty, and to think God used Paul to write 13 letters of the New Testament, and start many churches, and Paul we are told travelled across the regions teaching and preaching the gosple of Jesus Christ, gifted by the Holy Spirit to speak in all the different languages of every people he ministered to, and of the News Testament. And God worked more miracles, signs and wonders through Paul than he diid any of the other 12 apostles who was with Jesus during His earthly ministry.
Paul only meet Jesus one day.... one the WAY.. so yes, its all vey interesting how God works and what He does, and since we do not have his mind and can't give his counsel, its always best to keep silent into what He does and doesnt do. Ploygamy is also a sin, and he never intended it to be any other way buy for one man and one woman in marriage, but interesting He allowed David DSolomon and many others to have more than thier share of wives...hhhhmmmm wonder why, becasue He doesn't ave this information recorded in His word either!... So what do we say to these things?... If God be for us who is anyone to question what God allows, and be against us, even so the things of God!
:ROFL: right Jude, But its not about being right as far as I'm concern, its about helping Richard to understand he can;t dictate to me or to God about His business. Paul stood against the Corinthians and a few others, who tried to tell him in disbelief whether or not he had authority to teach or preach God's word.
I'm also finished with this topic with Richard, can't say no more than what has been already said. holla at you later!
CONCLUSION OF THIS MATTER: THERE IS NOTHING RICHARD OR ANYONE CAN TELL ME ABOUT MY MINISTRY FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD... SO DON'T EVEN TRY! :glow::yay:
