If you think John 3:16 communicates God�s love for the world, you are exactly right. But if you think the verse intends to communicate how much God loves the world, you have missed the meaning of the original Greek text. Although many translations say, �For God so love the world,� the intended meaning of the original language of John 3:16 really focuses on HOW God loves the world. That�s why when you read John 3:16 in the HCSB, it states, �For God love the world in this way...� Accuracy, another reason you will love the HCSB.
��For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.� -John 3:16
I could care less about the Calvinist and Arminian doctrines. The only thing that counts is what God's Word says!!
THE **CALLED** THE **CHOSEN** AND THE **FAITHFUL!!
Romans 8:28-39: "We know that all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who:rolleyes: have been called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined:rolleyes:, He also called:rolleyes:; those He called He also justified:rolleyes:; those He justified, He also glorified:rolleyes:.
What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but gave Him up for us all--how will He not also , along with him, graciously give us all things?Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...
No in all these things we are more then conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels or demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us form the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.":applause::angel:
John 6:39,44: Jesus says, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall ****LOSE NONE**** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up on the Last Day...No one can come to Me **UNLESS* the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!"
John 1:13,14: To all who received Him {Jesus}..He gave the right to became children of God--children born not of natural descent, nor of *HUMAN DECISION** or of a husband's will, but BORN OF GOD!"
Ephesians 2:6-10: And God {The Father} raised us up with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is be *GRACE* {Unmerited favor} you have been saved, through faith--and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the {100%} *GIFT* of God--**NOT BY WORKS**, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do!"
There will be two comings of Jesus on the same Last Day. The first will be **FOR** His saints and the second will be **WITH** His saints just after the Marriage Feast of the Lamb as per Revelation 19:8-20 and Revelation 17:14 "They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings-- and **WITH HIM* will be His **CALLED **, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!":applause::angel:
God only *CALLS** and CHOOSES** those He knows will be **FAITHFUL**.
Matthew 13:18-23: Jesus says, "Listen to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it {Such as all Roman Catholics}, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the Word and at once receives it with joy: But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution {See Matt 24:9-13} comes because of the Word, he quickly falls away.
The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the Word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth {The Prosperity Gospel} choke it making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the Word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown!"
He is one of the **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL**!! It is interesting that ONLY the **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** will be WITH Jesus on the Last Day as per Revelation 17:14!!
And after we are called and chosen we are born of God and receive His Spirit we become God's fellow workers and have the free will to seek countless eternal unseen heavenly rewards for faithful and loving service.
I John 2:3-5: �We know that we have come to know Him **IF** we obey His commands. The man who says, �I know Him,� but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the Truth is not him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's **LOVE** is truly made complete in Him!!�
So let us:rolleyes: read God's Word daily {Acts 17:11} and then *DO WHAT IT SAYS*! {James 1:22,25}
Acts 17:11: �The Bereans were of noble character, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures *EVERY DAY*!�:applause:
James 1:22,25: �Do not merely listen to the Word. *DO WHAT IT SAYS*!... and he who continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but *DOING IT*�will be blessed in what he does.:angel:
2 Peter 1:3-11: �His Divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. For this reason, make every effort to add to your faith {a 100% Free Gift}; goodness, and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness, LOVE. For if you possess these qualities in INCREASING MEASURE, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your **CALLING AND ELECTION SURE**. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a **RICH WELCOME** into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!!�:applause::angel::peace:
No matter how you look at it, God loved the world [mankind] so much that He gave His son [His life, His blood that purchases], whoever, anyone, that believes in Him, and they will have everlasting life. There is not one part of this verse that says God only loved the 'elect', so that only the 'elect' that believe in Him will have everlasting life. Christ' blood was not limited. It was shed for all. The only way you can misunderstand John 3:16 is if you misapply it.
James replies:
Well, you are disagreeing with the author of the post, because he says that John 3:16 is NOT about "How much" God loved the world, but in WHAT MANNER God loved the world.
I get why everyone is upset about this idea, because they are emotionally driven, and this verse is interpreted by you and them to be a totally sentimental thing, and you don't anyone saying otherwise.
Then of course you make some claims that have nothing to do with this verse, and so if that is what you want to do.......
71 said:
There is not one part of this verse that says God only loved the 'elect', so that only the 'elect' that believe in Him will have everlasting life.
James replies:
That is true, but we PLENTY of verses that DO SAY that God only loves the elect in a special way beyond the rest of mankind, and we DO have verses that say that ONLY THE ELECT WILL BELIEVE in Jesus.
Notice this passage here which is very important, and speaks of a GROUP of people that chose to know, and save, and glorify:
Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
And we have this verse in Acts:
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Again, ONLY those God chose are the ones who will believe.
and the apostle Paul TEACHES us about election, and Paul REMINDS US that God has said:
"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
And if that makes you mad, just read Romans 9:10-24
Paul KNEW some Christians like you would be mad about it, and so he precluded your objections to it. You should really read that chapter and ask God to help you accept it.
Now, I could give a lot more verses that say the same thing, but lets get to your last point........
71 said:
Christ' blood was not limited. It was shed for all.
James replies:
While I agree Jesus blood was good enough to save everyone who ever lived, God decided to save SOME of mankind, and Jesus died for them specifically. In the Arminian view, Jesus dying on the cross never saved anyone literally, just potentially, IF they might in the future, decide to believe.
The truth is, the Bible says that Jesus death PAID FOR ALL THE SINS OF HIS PEOPLE AT THE CROSS.
Here are some verses that tell us WHO Jesus died for:
God decided to save a CERTAIN group of people and not others:
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
1Pe 2:8-9 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Notice 71, Jesus saved "HIS PEOPLE" from their sins.
I am not getting my hopes up that you will listen to Jesus, but here is Jesus TELLING US that He is dying for a CERTAIN GROUP OF PEOPLE:
Joh 6:35-40 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 10:3-4 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice....Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep....Joh 10:14-15 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Now, 71, YOU need to interpret the "all" and the "world" verses in such a way that do NOT contradict the verses above.
The Bible does not contradict itself, but Arminians either IGNORE verses like the ones above, or they just make the Bible contradict itself by demanding Jesus died for everyone who ever lived.
ELLA SAID:John Calvin himself says this in his OWN semons which to me DOES NOT sound nothing like what these OTHER writers are SAYING John Calvin taught. As I have always said on this forum, John Calvin DID NOT teach much of what many of these people are saying he taught, these people are trying to INTERPRET what John Calvin wrote, and are adding their OWN interpretations to his writings.
In order to know what Calvin really wrote, you must go and read for yourself what John Calvin has written in his writings BEFORE others got a hold of them and changed and mis-interpreted much of what he wrote... I report, you decide...
ELLA ALSO SAID: IN John Calvins OWN WORDS His Commentary on John Chapter 3:verses 16-17... which sound nuttin like wht you have posted James, by this dude what's is name forgot his name lol... anyway read what John Calvin say abotu John 3:16. Again, I report... you decide
grrrrrrrrrrr... Arch, you have missed my point for posting parts of Calvins sermons. Did you READ what I said on both posts above?...
Again, I will say, Calvin does have some god points made in some of his writings, but he is off course with his understanding and connecting the dots of scriptures, and his spiritual insight as to God's meaning of election, being chosen and those who took his writings also mis-interpreted what he wrote to fit their OWN understanding when the wrote the TULIP.
My posting the sermons by Calvin on John 3:16 was to show that the article posted by James did not match up with what Calvin said as to God SO loved the world... that was my point, nothing more an nothing less. I know in whom I believe and what God says in HIS WORD, and not what Calvin or Jacob Arminianus or anyone else has to say... and I maintain what I said, those who claim to be followers of Calvin are still mis-interpreting his writings, just as many are mis-interpreting what God says in His word, and just as many on this forum mis-interpret what others post on this forum...duuuuh!:purpleangel:
Holmans translation of John 15:1-2 is not correct.
John 15
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
John 15
The Vine and the Branches
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vineyard keeper. 2 Every branch in Me that does not produce fruit He removes, and He prunes every branch that produces fruit so that it will produce more fruit.
John 15
Amplified Bible (AMP)
John 15
1I AM the True Vine, and My Father is the Vinedresser.
2Any branch in Me that does not bear fruit [that stops bearing] He cuts away (trims off, takes away); and He cleanses and repeatedly prunes every branch that continues to bear fruit, to make it bear more and richer and more excellent fruit.
John 15
King James Version (KJV)
John 15
1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Mr.Knucklehead
English:
KJV:Taketh away.....
Amplified:Cuts away......
Holman:Removes
All of these words or phrases are what the English translations say,the Father does with the 'Branch' in Yehsua not carrying fruit.
Greek word for the above English words-
Greek:airo
to raise, take up, lift
Original Word: αἴρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: air�
Phonetic Spelling: (ah'-ee-ro)
Short Definition: I raise, lift up
Definition: I raise, lift up, take away, remove.
Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition
to raise, take up, lift
NASB Word Usage
away (5), bear (4), carried (1), carry (1), get (4), hoisted (1), keep (1), lifted (2), pick (9), picked (11), pulls away (2), put away (1), raised (2), remove (1), removed (3), suspense* (1), take (13), take away (5), take...away (4), taken (3), taken...away (1), taken away (12), takes away (7), taking (1), took (2), took...away (1), took away (3), weighed anchor (1).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright � 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation
All rights reserved Lockman.org
to take up, take away
A primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. Weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare nasa') to expiate sin -- away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).
Just because you might agree with the English rendering of just ONE verse of Scripture,is no reason to trust that translation.
There is nothing better then the COMPLETE ORIGINAL.
I will stick with the Greek,no matter how good an English translation might be.
Shalom
ps:
Next time do not just copy and paste someone elses' response.
Tells others what the Holy Spirit has REVEALED to you.
That is if you believe the Holy Spirit still reveals the things of GOD today.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 3:16, Misunderstood?
By DevinMaddox Posted on 24 Aug 2011
If you think John 3:16 communicates God�s love for the world, you are exactly right. But if you think the verse intends to communicate how much God loves the world, you have missed the meaning of the original Greek text. Although many translations say, �For God so love the world,� the intended meaning of the original language of John 3:16 really focuses on how God loves the world. That�s why when you read John 3:16 in the HCSB, it states, �For God love the world in this way...� Accuracy, another reason you will love the HCSB.
You say that you are not a Calvinist�yet you continue to �Claim� that Calvin is Innocent�
(your words) ��also mis-interpreted what he wrote to fit their OWN understanding when the wrote the TULIP.�
��and I maintain what I said, those who claim to be followers of Calvin are still mis-interpreting his writings, just as many are mis-interpreting what God says in His word, and just as many on this forum mis-interpret what others post on this forum...duuuuh!� (end)
(Calvin�s words) ��that the secret love with which the Heavenly Father loved us�� (end)
�Secret Love��? Oh�yeah�secret love for the elect.
(Calvin�s words) ��Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised UNIVERSALLY to ALL who believe in Christ, still faith is not COMMON TO ALL. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the ELECT ALONE are they whose EYES GOD OPENS, that they may SEEK HIM BY FAITH�� (end)
Do you still maintain that Calvin is not speaking about T.U.L.I.P.? That his Writings have been Misinterpreted? That I have Misinterpreted what you have Posted?
Ella,
Those are Your Words above�Copied and Pasted intact! And those are Calvin�s words�also Unaltered! How much CLEARER can it Get?
Calvin not only Wrote about his New Gospel of T.U.L.I.P. � but he also Taught it and PREACHED IT! No One�s Misinterpreting Calvin. T.U.L.I.P. is Calvin�s New Gospel�it�s his Baby�his Theology.
Do you deny any of what you Wrote above? Do you still maintain what you Claimed above?
Stop Defending Calvin�his Follower James feels it is his Duty.
Arch, sweetheart, I've told you about HALF quoting what I say? If you are going to quote my words, please quote the complete sentence and/or phrase or prargraph of what I have spoken, for clarity.
Please know, I have no need to defend or deny not one word that I have posted about Calvin and what my position is on his TULIP concept which really is NOT his writings... and as I've said I have read some things by him that I have enjoyed, and that settles that..
Moreover, I will not get on the merry-go-round back and forth with you on this... you're going in circles and I'm getting vertigo:excited:
I have stated my position, as I have also stated the reason why I posted what I posted of Calvins sermon, and that settles it!
Compare and contrast what is posted in the article James posted, to what Calcvin says in his sermon and see if you see a difference in what the guy says and what Calvin says... open your ears and eyes to see and hear the difference...
I see what you are saying but i have never read anything he wrote that is not of confusion, the spirit of confusion is all over his writings, he had a way with words and used that to justify his unbelief, plain and simple, and I would add I have never seen any one that proclaims Calvinism to to begin to have any knowledge of bible faith, and thus every pint of the tulip is not of faith, or according to the word of God.
BTW, y'all remind me of the followers of the doctrines of the Church of Christ people, who claim since musical instruments are not in the scriptures in the gospels or made mentioned of in Paul's writings, it is a sin to have them in the church, and they will go to great lengths to prove God never intended for insturments to be in the New Testament church:ROFL::peace::toomuch:
Arch, I think you should post what Paul writes in scripture about God's love for every person who comes to Christ. Why did Gdo send His Son to die on the cross? Was it necessary if He had already chosen thsoe who would be saved?
Arch, I think you should post what Paul writes in scripture about God's love for every person who comes to Christ. Why did Gdo send His Son to die on the cross? Was it necessary if He had already chosen thsoe who would be saved?
None of Calvinism makes any Sense!
Why would God go to such Great Length to..."Fool Himself" and to "Play" this Delusional game?
I mean...think about it...God Decides...before you are Born...wether you are going to Heaven and then...Knowing that you are going to Heaven...God "STILL"
FORCES His Only Begotten Son to
SUFFER HORRIBILY
for us?
Not Even Stephen King could write something like that!
(Queen of Confusion)...did you like that? :dancingp:
