Thread: Infant Baptism -- Is It Scriptural? Part One
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Infant Baptism -- Is It Scriptural? Part One
Posted : 29 Aug, 2011 09:38 PM
�The Old Testament Points to The New Testament�
We Christians have heard this (or some form of it) many times, because there are many Instances where something in The Old Testament does Point to its Type in The New Testament and there are more still being Revealed to us.
Baptizing of Infants is one them.
In The Old Testament Babies (Infants) were Circumcised when they became eight days old as the way of entering into the Old Covenant.
Genesis 17:12
New International Version (NIV)
12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner�those who are not your offspring.
Notice the Command ��including those born in your household��. It seems that EVERYONE in your HOUSEHOLD that was Male ��must be circumcised,��. Remember this�it is Important�as you will see later.
Leviticus 12:3
New International Version (NIV)
3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised.
For some reason God Chose the Eight Day
Baptism is the �New Circumcision" for All People of the New Covenant.
Colossians 2:11-12
New International Version (NIV)
11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
So�Baptism is The �New Circumcision� and that is why Infants are Baptized and have ALWAYS been Baptized since the Beginning of The Church.
Man that is �Born of Woman� is full of Trouble and is Unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our Sinful Nature (Original Sin).
Job 14:1-4
New International Version (NIV)
1 �Mortals, born of woman,
are of few days and full of trouble.
2 They spring up like flowers and wither away;
like fleeting shadows, they do not endure.
3 Do you fix your eye on them?
Will you bring them[a] before you for judgment?
4 Who can bring what is pure from the impure?
No one!
We are Born �Dead in Sin� and in Need of being �Reborn Again� (Born Again) before we can Respond to God�s Word. We are Conceived in the Iniquity of Sin...All of us�not One is Born without Sin.
Psalm 51:5
New International Version (NIV)
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
This shows the necessity of Baptism from conception. Therefore, Baptism is for Babies as well as for Adults.
God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, Infants and Adults.
Jesus says unless we become �Like Children�, we cannot Enter into Heaven. So why would Children be Excluded from Baptism?
Matthew 18:2-5
New International Version (NIV)
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: �Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
Jesus Clearly says The Kingdom of Heaven also belongs to Children. There is no �Age Limit� on entering the Kingdom, and no �Age Limit� for being eligible for Baptism.`
Matthew 19:14
New International Version (NIV)
14 Jesus said, �Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.�
Jesus says to let the Children come to Him for the Kingdom of God also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being �Too Young� to come into the Kingdom of God.
Mark 10:14
New International Version (NIV)
14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, �Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Jesus says, �Let the children come to me,...�. The people brought Infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This Demonstrates that the �Receipt of Grace� is not Dependent upon the �Age of Reason�.
Luke 18:15-17
New International Version (NIV)
The Little Children and Jesus
15 People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, �Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.�
Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized...". Some Christians use this verse to prove one must be a Believer (not an Infant) to be Baptized. But the Greek translation Literally says,
"If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized�
Greek (�Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.�)
This, Contrary to what some Christians argue, actually proves that Babies are Baptized based on their �Parent�s Faith�. This is Confirmed in the next verse.
Acts 2:38-39
New International Version (NIV)
38 Peter replied, �Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off�for all whom the Lord our God will call.�
The Key Words here are
��for you and your children and for all who are far off��
Peter says Baptism is Specifically given to Children as well as Adults.
��Those far off�� refers to those who were at their �homes� (primarily Infants and Children). God's �Covenant Family� includes Children. The word "Children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes Infants.
The Church has Baptized Infants since �Day One� as Instructed by Christ Himself
I have much More Scripture to Show that Infant Baptism is Scriptural�but I do not want to Overwhelm and so I will Post on another Thread.
Also, DLK all that you've posted trying to justify baptizing infants sounds good on paper, but all is MAN'S FALSE TEAHCINGS AND DOCTRINE.
Again, if batoizing infants is of God surely He would have written it plainly and clearly in His word just as He has done everything elese Hw wanted us to know about...
And again, Jesus is our supereme example, and NO WQHERE are we told that Mary and Joseph took him to the temple to be baptized. We are told that they took him to the temple to be BLESSED by Simeon and Ana the prophetess, and they prophesied over him, and sent them on their way.
Jesus was baptized in the river of Jordan by John the Baptist at he age of 3o plus, so if this baptizing of babies of biblical, God would have had Simeon and Ana baptise Him when his parents brought him to the temple to be BLESSED.
Abraham did not baptize Issac, but we are told he LIFTED HIM UP TO GOD as a child and BLESSED him... I could post all the bible accoutns of evey child born in the Bible, wherein they were lifted up to God for a blessing, but no where does it says they lifted the child up and blessed him then BAPTIZED HIM... this is a false doctrine and teaching.
However, if baptizing an infant will keep him/her off the streets committing crimes when he/she grows up... THEN PRASIE THE LORD... but to say this if of God and God told the council of the church to do such is not a truth, and if its not a truth, this makes for a lie!
The raly church began at Pentacost and this was not a practice of the early church that Cjrist started with His apostles, nor is such practice found in the Book of Acts. God shows forth PROOF of His works in His word...
So you get your pennies out as well, and you and Arch and I are going out for dinner at MacDonald.:laugh:
oh, sorry, but I forgot to add that every denomination that believes in infant baotisn is a split off from the Catholic church and their man made doctrines and teachings... you can't anticipate an infant growing up and having faith or being saved just becasue he/she was baptized as an infant. This too, isn't biblical, God say every person is responsibile for their OWN SINS FAITH AND BELIEFS IN CHRIST. Mommy, can do it, daddy can't do it and for sure WATE BAPTISM CAN'T DO it. For it is the HEARING AND HEARING AND THE HEARING gospel fo Jesus Christ that bring us into our Faith UNTO SALVATION.
Even Samuel was not baptized as an infant and he was taught the word of God in his mothers womb, BEFORE he was even born... but after he was circumcised on the eight days, was he baptized? NO! This is man made doctrine and teachings.
I still have my baptismal paper that i had when I was born into the kingdom of God A man that said I do not believe there is a God, did not believe he existed, nor was I looking for him and then that day came where I had an head on encounter with the living God, a man under the law of sin and death free to choose life and I did, now who gets all the glory he and he alone and he gets all the Glory in that he gave me the freedom to choose him, mu point is this that baptismal and the paper meant nothing then, it meant nothing when it was written, it was not an act of faith, just a religions tradition.
Arch when any man or woman tries to defend church tradition they will always end up in the ditch, and it is easily a form of idolatry in a person's life.
No one has no argument against any other tag that men have tried to put on God, it is by the word of God and the word of God alone..
Hebrews 11:1,6: Now faith is being sure of what we:rolleyes: hope for and certain of what we do not see...Without FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD, because anyone who comes to Him:rolleyes: MUST BELIEVE that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him!"
It is impossible for an infant to have FAITH that God exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
Romans 10:17: "Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the WORD of Christ!"
And it is impossible for an infant to receive Faith by hearing and understanding the message!!
I Peter 1:23,24: For you:rolleyes: have been born again... through the Living and enduring Word of God...and the Word of the Lord stands forever, and this is the Word that was preached to you."
And so a person is born again by hearing and understanding the Word of God which is impossible for an infant.
John 1:11-13: "To all who received Him {Jesus}, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, *NOR OF HUMAN DECISION* or a husband's will {Such as child baptism}, but BORN OF GOD!"
Grace is God's unmerited favor.
Ephesians 2:8-10: "For it by grace you:rolleyes: have been saved, through faith--and this is NOT from *YOURSELVES*, it is the *GIFT* of God--not by works {Including baptism}, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.":applause::peace:
The Satanic idea of Baptismal Regeneration is so ridiculous that it is not even worthy of consideration. That some Satanic Priest saves you by sprinkling you with some water??
Anyone who is truly Born of God and receives the FREE GIFT of Faith will of course by very anxious to obey all of the approximately 400 commands in the NT including the command to be baptized.
Luke 3:15,16: John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water, But one more powerful than I will come, the throngs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire!":angel:
RITE-ON, PJ!:applause:... and the point I am also making is that Arch has been so very judgmental about James beliefs and twisted scriptures trying to make them fit what man has said about salvtion by Calvin, YET Arch believes the same teachings and doctrine as Calvin taught about infant baptism, becasue Calvin came out of the Catholic church, so it is no surprise that Arch, James and DLK are ALL confused as to what God speaks in His Holy Word..there is no REVELATION only what Calvin and the Pope, Council, and Priests have told them by INTERPRETATION... no one is reading for themselves and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach and lead and guide them into God's truths..:zzzz::excited::ROFL:... I suspect Arch is a Catholic/Calvinist!:yay:
OK, NOW RICHARD!... What you have posted is GOOD TEACHING c'mon with it, this is good commentart on scriptures you posted... now this is what I'm talkin 'bout. :applause::glow:
If you equate baptism with the human act of dunking (for want of a better expression) then it's worthless other than as a symbolic act - after all, no work of man can restore himself to God.
But what is baptism? (No, not the dunking, I've already said that) It's the washing away of sins, it's the cleansing which water alone could never achieve. It's the death to sin and the rebirth of a new creation. It's the baptism the Holy Spirit brings which is important.
This baptism can only follow repentance and then acceptance of Jesus as Lord. John baptised with water for repentance, but repentance alone does not save man. Neither does just believing Jesus is the son of God for even the demons acknowledge that. Accepting Him as your Lord and redeemer is needed, and must happen before the baptism of the Spirit, which is the only one that counts, takes place.
Whether infants have sin or not is a separate subject, but "baptising" them is worthless if they cannot accept Jesus as their Lord and redeemer. Worse still, they may grow up believing they're saved because they were "baptised" as an infant - and how the devil loves to deceive with a false promise of salvation!
aaawwww, Arch you have become as James, taking scriptures to try and make them fit your church doctrine... there is NOT ONE SCRIPTURE in the Old or New Testament wherein a BABY is baptized. And this INCLUDE JESUS!... or any other child that was born including Samuel, and the Bible give us clear account of Jesus' birth as well as Samuels and other births, and when the boy children were circumcised on the eight day, but baptism is not mentioned in one scripture has NOT ONE THING to do with circumcism... sorry!
James replies:
As long as we are making accusations, ET...... You have been told several times by different people who do not know each other, that you are inconsistent in what you say about Scripture.
That last article you posted about Calvinism was terrible, and full of lies and misinterpretations. I checked the website and it was from some fundamentalist Baptist group that is KJV only!
As far as the baptizing of the infants OF BELIEVERS.....
You say there is not one Scripture "wherein a baby is baptized".
I don't see how you can know that..........
1. In the book of Acts, the apostles told people who accepted Jesus to "Be baptized, you and YOUR HOUSEHOLD."
I think we have this statement being told to people TWICE in the book of Acts. HOW do you KNOW there were no children, or babies in those homes? YOU DON'T.
2. Yes, Roman Catholicism is an apostate body, and although it is disgusting to listen to Arch pontificate upon Scripture, knowing that he worships Mary, and bows down to statues, etc.
Rome is NOT wrong about every single issue in Scripture.
3. I believe that Passover, and circumcision, were replaced by Baptism and the Lord's Supper. Jesus instituted them during His ministry, which would explain why Jesus was not baptized at birth.
4. IF......we had a clear command to baptize the infants of believers, then there would be no controversy, but since we don't we have to ask ourselves what God wants from us concerning this.
5. The case for not baptizing the infants of believers, is simple.
We have no direct command that says to!
The case FOR baptizing them has to do with what I said above in point number three, AND with covenant theology, in which the CHILDREN of converts ARE INCLUDED IN THE COVENANT.
The children of believers receive benefits from their parents being Christians.
6. Since we have a PAPIST bringing this up, I must add that I do NOT believe in baptismal regeneration. NO ONE is saved by dunking them in water! I should not have to say this, because that is stupid superstition, but that IS what Papists believe.
:laugh:JAMES POSTED: ET said:aaawwww, Arch you have become as James, taking scriptures to try and make them fit your church doctrine... there is NOT ONE SCRIPTURE in the Old or New Testament wherein a BABY is baptized. And this INCLUDE JESUS!... or any other child that was born including Samuel, and the Bible give us clear account of Jesus' birth as well as Samuels and other births, and when the boy children were circumcised on the eight day, but baptism is not mentioned in one scripture has NOT ONE THING to do with circumcism... sorry!
James replies:
As long as we are making accusations, ET...... You have been told several times by different people who do not know each other, that you are inconsistent in what you say about Scripture.
ELLA SAYS: First off James I have not made any accusation, so I think you have need to point these out. Secondly, I don't know who these "different people" are whom you say have TOLD me, "That Iam inconsistant in what I say about scriptures. Let it be known that whoever these different people are who had told me such, are mostly likely people who didn't and /or DO NOT have spiritual insight or a clue about God's word, and when I have challeneged them they can't find answers online, and they do their personal attacks as a way out... therefore they would not now if I am consistant or inconsistant in scriptures or not, as I have found with many on this forum. They have their OWN personal ideas and views of God's word, but they are not sound in what they understand or believe about what God is saying... So who are these "different people", as you say, and this will let ME know if what I speak is correct or not regarding their own limited knowledge into the word, and whether or not they are creditable "DIFFERENT PEOPLE" WHO ARE SPIRITUALLY SOUND IN WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT GOD'S WORD, to make such judgment call as to my consistancy and.or inconsistancy.
James continues: That last article you posted about Calvinism was terrible, and full of lies and misinterpretations. I checked the website and it was from some fundamentalist Baptist group that is KJV only!
ELLA SAYS: So, James are you to say that just because the article was written by a fundamentist Baptist who uses the NKJ ONLY, this makes what is written incorrect? Should I have posted an artcile from a Calvinist group who uses the NIV, and they still misinterpret what God is saying even using a simple language Bible that has been broken down for easy reading and hopefully understand?... I don't get where you're coming from in this since you post everything about Calvin from your Calvinist sites, yet you find my post from a Baptist site terrible and unfair. Geeezzzz, what does this tell me about you not being able to HEAR anyone speak against Clavin or his doctrine?... you sound like the Muslins, Mormons, JW"S and other groups who can't stand to hear anyone speak out against their religious beleifs or leader.... don't ya think? I thought the article was rather true and correct in explaining the scriptures properly and teaching soundnness in the word of God as acoording to the scriptures Catholic and Calvinists try to use to justify why babies are baptized.
James: As far as the baptizing of the infants OF BELIEVERS..... You say there is not one Scripture "wherein a baby is baptized". I don't see how you can know that........
Ella: James so far you nor anyone has come forth with not scriptures showing wherein an infant child has been baptized. As I contnue to post, NOT EVEN JESUS WAS BAPTIZED as an infant. And the Jews in the Old Testamnet sure didn't practice such...
James: 1. In the book of Acts, the apostles told people who accepted Jesus to "Be baptized, you and YOUR HOUSEHOLD."
ELLA: Yes you and your household, there is not one thing in this passage that says those household had children or infants. But you fail to present the whole passage. These people were also told to REPENT OF THEIR SINS, BELEIVE ON THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND BE BAPTIZED, and they would receive the Holy Spirit. How does a child repent of sins or believe in anything but crying sleeping and eating?:nahnah:
James: I think we have this statement being told to people TWICE in the book of Acts. HOW do you KNOW there were no children, or babies in those homes? YOU DON'T.
Ella: The passages is speaking about receiving the Holy Spirit and this PROMISE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS TO ALL in the household, and children can receive the Holy Spirit as infants because they are sinless without sins. Again, even John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit in his mother womb.
James: 2. Yes, Roman Catholicism is an apostate body, and although it is disgusting to listen to Arch pontificate upon Scripture, knowing that he worships Mary, and bows down to statues, etc.
ELLA::laugh: well, I think you both have some man made doctrines and theology that is rather wtosted when it comes to what God ahs to say... LOL
James: Rome is NOT wrong about every single issue in Scripture.
ELLA: I did not say Rome was wrong about every single issue in Scripture. There are many things that the Catholic church teaches are accoring to what God says, but there are MANY church doctrine and theories and theologiies that God hasn;t said nor is according to His word. and they try to fit scriopture into those things mad has made up, and it is out of spiritual ignorance of understanding God's word and guidence from the Holy Spirit. And anytime you start trying to fit man's doctrines and theology into God's word, you've got serious problems... Thsi is why Paul says we are to teach and preach the Doctrine of Christ ONLY, and not man's doctrines and teaching, because man's doctrines and traditions and etachings will always casue mess, and confusions, and arguments...
James:3. I believe that Passover, and circumcision, were replaced by Baptism and the Lord's Supper. Jesus instituted them during His ministry, which would explain why Jesus was not baptized at birth.
Ella: James there you go with what YOU believe. There is not one word in scripture that speak to such... and there is not one thing that is going on around us today in the 21st century that God did not cover in His word. If Jesus wasn't baptized as an infant, it is becasue He was an innocent child without sin... nor were there any other infants baptized. You guys are really reaching and this is called false doctrine and false teaching when you try to MAKE God's word say something that God hasn't said not implied, nor included in His word just because your spiritual leader says God told him to put it in the church's doctrine... put whatever you please in your doctrine, but leave God out of it as if its in His word, and not try to fit His word into a church doctrine amdeup by mere men.
James: 4. IF......we had a clear command to baptize the infants of believers, then there would be no controversy, but since we don't we have to ask ourselves what God wants from us concerning this.
Ella: That's the point, there is clear command that we are to repent, believe by faith and be baptized, and infants are unable to follow such commands. Listen, there is no problem with baptizing an infant, but your church doctrinal reason behind it and improper use of scripture to try and justify such practice, is where the problem lies. Becasue many have grown up and fell since they were baptized as an infant, they have no need ot be re-baptized, and that's not true. They still must as grown ups, REPENT, BELIEVE IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND BE BAPTIZED... that's Bible, Gods' Word of Truth!
James 5. The case for not baptizing the infants of believers, is simple. We have no direct command that says to! The case FOR baptizing them has to do with what I said above in point number three, AND with covenant theology, in which the CHILDREN of converts ARE INCLUDED IN THE COVENANT.
The children of believers receive benefits from their parents being Christians.
ELLA: Again. There is no such thng as covenant theology in the Bible. You can't baptize a chld into a covenant based on the parents. Again, MAN MADE UP DOCTRIEN AND TEAHCINGS... NOT BIBLICAL AT ALL. Every person is responsible for their OWN SOUL SALVATION, SINS, AND BAPTISM.
Kames: 6. Since we have a PAPIST bringing this up, I must add that I do NOT believe in baptismal regeneration. NO ONE is saved by dunking them in water! I should not have to say this, because that is stupid superstition, but that IS what Papists believe.
DKJ Said: Whether infants have sin or not is a separate subject, but "baptising" them is worthless if they cannot accept Jesus as their Lord and redeemer. Worse still, they may grow up believing they're saved because they were "baptised" as an infant - and how the devil loves to deceive with a false promise of salvation!
Ella: Now this is a powerful word of truth!... being deceived to think you've got it made just becasue you were baptized as a child, and have salvation... I'm sure many souls have been lost becasue of this practice, and growing up never repenting and receiving Jeus Christ. due ot the fact, they were baptized as infants... this is why such practice is a draw back and false doctrine and teahcing by those in the church.
Fine baptiize your infants, but it must be made known that this DOES NOT SECURE THEIR SALVATION, nor doea baptism secure anyone's salvation in Christ... God has exhorted us what to do to be saved... and water ain't gettin it!
