One of the most dramatic moments in my life for the shaping of my theology took place in a seminary classroom. One of my professors went to the blackboard and wrote these words in bold letters: "Regeneration Precedes Faith."
These words were a shock to my system. I had entered seminary believing that the key work of man to effect rebirth was faith. I thought that we first had to believe in Christ in order to be born again. I use the words in order here for a reason. I was thinking in terms of steps that must be taken in a certain sequence. I had put faith at the beginning. The order looked something like this:
"Faith - rebirth -justification."
I hadn�t thought that matter through very carefully. Nor had I listened carefully to Jesus� words to Nicodemus. I assumed that even though I was a sinner, a person born of the flesh and living in the flesh, I still had a little island of righteousness, a tiny deposit of spiritual power left within my soul to enable me to respond to the Gospel on my own. Perhaps I had been confused by the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. Rome, and many other branches of Christendom, had taught that regeneration is gracious; it cannot happen apart from the help of God.
No man has the power to raise himself from spiritual death. Divine assistance is necessary. This grace, according to Rome, comes in the form of what is called prevenient grace. "Prevenient" means that which comes from something else. Rome adds to this prevenient grace the requirement that we must "cooperate with it and assent to it" before it can take hold in our hearts.
This concept of cooperation is at best a half-truth. Yes, the faith we exercise is our faith. God does not do the believing for us. When I respond to Christ, it is my response, my faith, my trust that is being exercised. The issue, however, goes deeper. The question still remains: "Do I cooperate with God's grace before I am born again, or does the cooperation occur after?" Another way of asking this question is to ask if regeneration is monergistic or synergistic. Is it operative or cooperative? Is it effectual or dependent? Some of these words are theological terms that require further explanation.
A monergistic work is a work produced singly, by one person. The prefix mono means one. The word erg refers to a unit of work. Words like energy are built upon this root. A synergistic work is one that involves cooperation between two or more persons or things. The prefix syn -
means "together with." I labor this distinction for a reason. The debate between Rome and Luther hung on this single point. At issue was this: Is regeneration a monergistic work of God or a synergistic work that requires cooperation between man and God? When my professor wrote "Regeneration precedes faith" on the blackboard, he was clearly siding with the monergistic answer. After a person is regenerated, that person cooperates by exercising faith and trust. But the first step is the work of God and of God alone.
The reason we do not cooperate with regenerating grace before it acts upon us and in us is because we can- not. We cannot because we are spiritually dead. We can no more assist the Holy Spirit in the quickening of our souls to spiritual life than Lazarus could help Jesus raise him for the dead.
When I began to wrestle with the Professor's argument, I was surprised to learn that his strange-sounding teaching was not novel. Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield - even the great medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas taught this doctrine. Thomas Aquinas is the Doctor Angelicus of the Roman Catholic Church. For centuries his theological teaching was accepted as official dogma by most Catholics. So he was the last person I expected to hold such a view of regeneration. Yet Aquinas insisted that regenerating grace is operative grace, not cooperative grace. Aquinas spoke of prevenient grace, but he spoke of a grace that comes before faith, which is regeneration.
These giants of Christian history derived their view from Holy Scripture. The key phrase in Paul's Letter to the Ephesians is this: "...even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved)" (Eph. 2:5). Here Paul locates the time when regeneration occurs. It takes place 'when we were dead.' With one thunderbolt of apostolic revelation all attempts to give the initiative in regeneration to man are smashed. Again, dead men do not cooperate with grace. Unless regeneration takes place first, there is no possibility of faith.
This says nothing different from what Jesus said to Nicodemus. Unless a man is born again first, he cannot possibly see or enter the kingdom of God. If we believe that faith precedes regeneration, then we set our thinking and therefore ourselves in direct opposition not only to giants of Christian history but also to the teaching of Paul and of our Lord Himself.
(Excerpt from the book, The Mystery of the Holy Spirit, by R.C. Sproul, Christian Focus
For more on this topic see:
The New Genesis by R.C. Sproul
Monergism vs. Synergism by John Hendryx
A Defense of Monergistic Regeneration by Gannon Murphy
Spiritually DEAD people CANNOT do anything,especially Spiritua things.
Being dead ( a corpse) in your trespasses and sins,how is someone able to have life,by choosing?
No life must come from outside of the person,the one giving life must be,
Omniscient in order to know the Spiritual condition of eveyone born of a woman
Omnipotent,in order to give life to Spiritually DEAD people.
Omnipresent in order to give life to vast amounts of people,some at the same time.
Joh_10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Why did Yeshua come,TO GIVE LIFE,that is the Life of GOD.
What was the reason for this,Yeshua knew man was Spirituallly Dead,and that they needed LIFE.
Well George of course Jesus came for life, but before he was manifest in the body he was in the book of life, the word of life, and we have this book to define to us, the examples of men after the fall.
The definition does not help any one walk in the light of the Word.
All thru the old testament we see men walking with the lord, and his word tell us exactly how they did it.
Fallen man continually received from God when he did what he was told according to the word of God.
Man's spirit was not dead as a corpse, unable to respond to God, spiritual death is very clear, it is simply understood that life, left the spirit and that is death the absence of life. All of the Men and women in hell today did not cease to exist because they denied God.
Well, sir, I do stand in agreement with part fo what you guys say, spiritually DEAD PEOPLE CANNOT UNDERSTAND NOT ONE THING OF THE LORD... and DLJ, Arch, and George, you three have proven this to be so very true, because all three of you are SPIRITUALLY DEAD, you LACK spiritual understanding into the things of God. lack of spiritual knowledge and understanding in God;s word ic called spiritual retardation... which I see is going on here, because the Holy Spirit sure has not open your understanding into the word of God, if you think regeneration which mean being filled with the Holy Spirit comes BEFORE a person have faith. This is no where to be found in the word of God if you would spend time READING God's word, and not just reading a scripture in a half passages without understanding. That's why you guy are so confused and lost! And I will not argue with you over what I know to be truth and what God says in His word. No wnere in the book of Acts can you find anyone believing in the gospel without FIRST GHEARIGN what the apostles had to say about Jesus.
You use a passages from Acts chapter 16 about Lydia, but again to DECEIVE and to hold on to your false teachings of your church out of ignorance, you FAIL TO QUOTE THE WHOLE PASSAGE. Paul FIRST spoke to her and the other women with her about Jesus. Acts chapter 16:13 On the Sabbath we went outside the city gate to the riverbank, where we thought there might be a place for prayer. We sat down and BEGAN TO TALK with the women who had gathered. 14 One of those women was Lydia, a Gentile God-worshipper from the city of Thyatira, a dealer in purple cloth. AS SHE LISTEN, the Lord enabled her to embrace Paul’s message. 15 Once she and her household were baptized, she urged, “Now that you have decided that I am a believer in the Lord, come and stay in my house.” And she persuaded us.
A person MUST first HEAR THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, HAVE FAITH TO BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, AND THEN RECEIVE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHIRST, THEN REPNT FO THIER SINS, AND THE HOLY SPIRITUAL WILL ENTER IN TO SEAL THEM UNTIL THE DAY OF THEY LORD. I will use a simplest Bible I can find for your understanding The Common English Bible
1. The first step to salvation to HEARING the gospel inorder to have faith to believe. Mark Chapter 16 The Great Commission, maybe you guys have never heard of the Great Commission... don't think you have otherwise you would know that faith comes by hearing...upon hearing the person is CONVICTED (PRICKED) IN THEIR HEARTS FO THEIR SINS AND COMES TO REPENTANCE... if you're not going to READ what I post then please don't ask me anymore question. I can't discuss the topic with you if you have not read what God says, because you would not know what I'm talking about and you're speaking from your OWN opinions and not according to what God has said... can't be effective like that. If you have NOt read god's word, then we have knothing to discuss..
What does God says? Mark chapter16:Finally he (Jesus) appeared to the eleven while they were eating. Jesus criticized their unbelief and stubbornness because they didn’t believe those who saw him after he was raised up. 15. He said to them, “Go into the whole world and proclaim the good news to every creature. 16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever doesn’t believe will be condemned."
Acts chapter 2: 1 When Pentecost Day arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound from heaven like the howling of a fierce wind filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be individual flames of fire alighting on each one of them. 4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit enabled them to speak.
5 There were pious Jews from every nation under heaven living in Jerusalem. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd gathered. They were mystified because everyone heard them speaking in their native languages. 7 They were surprised and amazed, saying, “Look, aren’t all the people who are speaking Galileans, every one of them? 8 How then can each of us hear them speaking in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; as well as residents of Mesopotamia, Judea, and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the regions of Libya bordering Cyrene; and visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism), 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the mighty works of God in our own languages!” 12 They were all surprised and bewildered. Some asked each other, “What does this mean?” 13 Others jeered at them, saying, “They’re full of new wine!”
14 Peter stood with the other eleven apostles. He raised his voice and declared, “Judeans and everyone living in Jerusalem! Know this! Listen carefully to my words! 15 These people aren’t drunk, as you suspect; after all, it’s only nine o’clock in the morning! 16 Rather, this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel: 17 In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your young will see visions.
Your elders will dream dreams.
18 Even upon my servants, men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will cause wonders to occur in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and a cloud of smoke.
20 The sun will be changed into darkness,
and the moon will be changed into blood,
before the great and spectacular day of the Lord comes.
21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.[a] 22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to these words! Jesus the Nazarene was a man whose credentials God proved to you through miracles, wonders, and signs, which God performed through him among you. You yourselves know this. 23 In accordance with God’s established plan and foreknowledge, he was betrayed. You, with the help of wicked men, had Jesus killed by nailing him to a cross. 24 God raised him up! God freed him from death’s dreadful grip, since it was impossible for death to hang on to him. 25 David says about him, I foresaw that the Lord was always with me; because he is at my right hand I won’t be shaken.Therefore, my heart was glad and my tongue rejoiced. Moreover, my body will live in hope, because you won’t abandon me to the grave, nor permit your holy one to experience decay. You have shown me the paths of life; your presence will fill me with happiness.[b] 29 “Brothers and sisters, I can speak confidently about the patriarch David. He died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this very day. 30 Because he was a prophet, he knew that God promised him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Having seen this beforehand, David spoke about the resurrection of Christ, that he wasn’t abandoned to the grave, nor did his body experience decay.[c] 32 This Jesus, God raised up. We are all witnesses to that fact. 33 He was exalted to God’s right side and received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit. He poured out this Spirit, and you are seeing and hearing the results of his having done so. 34 David didn’t ascend into heaven. Yet he says, The Lord said to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right side, 35 until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.’[d] 36 “Therefore, let all Israel know beyond question that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 When the crowd HEARD this, they were deeply troubled. They said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Change your hearts and lives. Each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 This promise is for you, your children, and for all who are far away—as many as the Lord our God invites.” 40 With many other words he testified to them and encouraged them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Those who accepted Peter’s message were baptized. God brought about three thousand people into the community on that day.
42 The believers devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching, to the community, to their shared meals, and to their prayers. 43 A sense of awe came over everyone. God performed many wonders and signs through the apostles. 44 All the believers were united and shared everything. 45 They would sell pieces of property and possessions and distribute the proceeds to everyone who needed them. 46 Every day, they met together in the temple and ate in their homes. They shared food with gladness and simplicity. 47 They praised God and demonstrated God’s goodness to everyone. The Lord added daily to the community those who were being saved.
Romans chapter 10:The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart[d] (that is, the message of faith that we preach). 9 Because if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and in your heart you have faith that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 It is the heart that has faith that leads to righteousness, and it is the mouth that confesses that leads to salvation. 11 The scripture says, All who have faith in him won’t be put to shame.[e] 12 There is no distinction between Jew and Greek, because the same Lord is Lord of all, who gives richly to all who call on him. 13 All who call on the Lord’s name will be saved.[f]
14 So how can they call on someone they don’t have faith in? And how can they have faith in someone they haven’t heard of? And how can they hear without a preacher? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of those who announce the good news.[g]
16 But everyone hasn’t obeyed the good news. As Isaiah says, Lord, who has had faith in our message?[h] 17 So, faith comes from listening, but it’s listening by means of Christ’s message. 18 But I ask you, didn’t they HEAR it? Definitely! Their voice has gone out into the entire earth, and their message has gone out to the corners of the inhabited world.[i] 19 But I ask you again, didn’t Israel understand? First, Moses says, I will make you jealous of those who aren’t a people, of a people without understanding.[j] 20 And Isaiah even dares to say, I was found by those who didn’t look for me; I revealed myself to those who didn’t ask for me.[k] 21 But he says about Israel, All day long I stretched out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.
DLJ said: you two need to put away self and believe in the God of the bible. Pride will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ella says: No, sweetheart you have need to strat READING GOD'S WORD for yourself and stop picking out only half passages you have been taught. You guys sound like JW"S:laugh:
When we stubborn, unregenerate,prideful, non repentant, and sinful humans believe we who have violated God�s Moral laws have the right, and a free will, to override God and choose Him and grant ourselves salvation, we make ourselves a God, because we believe we can checkmate God and that He doesn�t have the power to do anything about it. Nor would He be Sovereign with the power to choose whom He wants to save. When one believes he or she can checkmate God they are on VERY dangerous ground.
DLJ said: When we stubborn, unregenerate,prideful, non repentant, and sinful humans believe we who have violated God’s Moral laws have the right, and a free will, to override God and choose Him and grant ourselves salvation, we make ourselves a God, because we believe we can checkmate God and that He doesn’t have the power to do anything about it. Nor would He be Sovereign with the power to choose whom He wants to save. When one believes he or she can checkmate God they are on VERY dangerous ground.
Ella says: DLJ, before YOU can come into any spiritual knowldge or understanding of God's word His word MUST first convict YOUR heart of your sins before him. Therefore, your comment MUST first apply to YURSELF FIRST before you can speak it out to anyone else.
What you have siad is only another was of saying YOU do not understand Gdos' word for yourself, therefore you try to turn the tables AWAY for your own ignorance of knowing what's in God word. What I wortoe to to correct and enlighten you, Arch, and all otehrs who are in ubelief is what God speaks, I didn't write it... This is why you guys can never effectively discuss anything in scriptures about Jesus or what God has said becsue you really don't know what He has said, you only know those few scriptures that you bring forth to try and support your false doctrine that you have been taught as Calvinsists instead of what God teaches us for spirirtual growth and knowledge in KNOWING HIM on a personal level into the mysteries of His kingdom.
So I would suggest you check and balance your spiritual knowledge into the Word of Truth of what God speaks, and see if indeed you qualify to try to speak about pride and checkmating . What you have speakone makes no sense as to what I posted regarding what God says that before a person can have faith to believe, he/she MUST FIRST HEAR the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So I would appreciate it very much if you would explain your comment. Thank you!:glow:
conviction is good for the soul. I am saying put away self and live by the entire word of God, not just the versus you use to justify yourself and you lies about the Holy Almighty Sovereign God that you think you know.
The word of God says, Paul and the others SAT DOWN AND SPOKE to the women, and AS LYDIA WAS LISTENING to what they were telling her GOD OPENED her understanding, and then she BELIEVED and was baptized! can't make it any planier than this... all throughout the book of Acts it tells us that when the gospel of Jesus was preached, they BELIEVED, how can you believe in somethng you know nothing about... They HEARD first, fiath leads to repentance, and repanetence leads to receiving the Promise of the Holy Spirit. ther AIN'T no other way.
How can a woman get preganat UNLESS there is first and act, then conception, which brings about her pregnancy with child.
How can one receive the Holy Spirit unless the person first HEARS the gospel to receive faiht to believe, and then is FILL with the Holy Spirit to come into the knowledge and understnding of who Go really is, and His word of truth. SPIRITUALLY PEGNANT with the Spirit of spiritual knowledge and understanding of God and the things of God, rivers of living heavenly water, which is the Holy Spirit... Oh, sorry, but you guys are not taught this... but this is Bible... what God says!!
If you but READ GOD'S WORD FOR YOURSELVES! The new birth born again experience is only of God in the BELIEVERS LIFE changing them from the old nature of sin to the new nature in Chroist Romans chapter 7. Two natures that lives on the inside of us our old sin nature from Adam and our new nature when we receive Christ. READ!
The Bible tells us that God does not even hear a sinners pray UNLESS it is a prayer of REPENTANCE, so why would God even dare fill a sinners with His Holy Spirit in a corrupt body BEFORE the person has faith to believe in His SON? Gdo CONVICTS OUR HEARTS OF OUR SINS this is how He DRAWS us to HIM, and lets us know we are sinners lost and need a Savior to deliver us from our wicked ways.
Know the word of truth and you will be set free from your spiritual bondage into the knowledge of God's holy word.
God instruct us to SPEAK TO THE DEATH BONES who sit in darkness, you already know your sins, and we are to SPEAK God's word so that the sinners might HEAR what God did in love through Jesus Christ...
If my people who are called by my name would humble themselves and pray, seek my face, and and Turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and forgive their sins, and heal thier land.
