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Regeneration precedes faith: Both sides considered!
Posted : 11 Sep, 2011 05:19 PM
Usually when I debate other Christians on a point of Doctrine, I present my beliefs and the relevant
Scriptures on that point. When I do this, they will reply, "well that can't be true because of X" or they will present some verses to me on why they believe what they believe.
The problem is they never deal with the Scriptures I just gave them, and I am always left with a bunch of verses in my hand that prevent me from believing what they believe.
I give them 40 verses on the Total depravity of man, and they ignore them, and show me verses that have the word "if" and "choose" and "world" and "all", and then never mention what I should do with the 40 verses I just showed them!
I mean they never come out and say, "Just ignore those verses James!"
But they NEVER mention them or deal with them!
So this time on the subject of Regeneration coming BEFORE faith, I will deal with the verses used by the opposition, and also include the verses that make me believe that Regeneration comes before faith.
Cole said:
"Regeneration can't precede faith unless regeneration precedes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (which it doesn't), because the indwelling is produced by faith (John 7:39, Gal. 3:14, Gal. 3:22, Eph. 1:13, Eph. 3:17, Acts 11:17)."
James replies:
Okay, lets look at each one of these verses and see if they actually DO teach that regeneration comes AFTER a person has faith.
John 7: 39
English Standard Version (ESV)
"Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
Now if you look at Jesus comment "If anyone believes in me, then out of him will flow rivers of living waters."
Jesus was NOT teaching WHEN a person is regenerated, Jesus is talking about the blessing of Pentecost.
Of course, the Holy Spirit was present in the Old Testament period, but at Pentecost He entered into a more intimate relationship with believers. (14:17: 1 Cor.6:19)
Acts 11:17
"If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God�s way?"
I can see how this verse could be used to say that a person is regenerated at the same moment someone believed, or after they believed. But my problem is, that Peter was NOT teaching WHEN a person is regenerated. He was defending God's grace towards the Gentiles, to Jewish believers. THAT was his point, and NOT "when a person is regenerated".
Also, we have several CLEAR examples of when a person is regenerated being TAUGHT explicitly, and you would make the bible contradict itself, if you used this verse to say a person is regenerated AFTER they believe.
Gal. 3:14
"so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith."
Here is Paul dealing with people in the church in Galatia, that suddenly decided that faith in Jesus was not enough to save them, and they decided to start trusting in works instead! So, Paul has harsh words for them and rightly so. But again, Paul is NOT teaching about "when a person is regenerated". He is teaching that salvation is by FAITH alone.
What Paul is saying in this verse is that in his time, the believing gentiles whose lives ARE marked by the indwelling Spirit, FULFILL THE PROMISE that through Abraham all nations will be blessed. If you check out this verse on Biblegateway.com you will see a footnote that says: "Greek text: "receive the promise of the Spirit".
Gal.3:22
"But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
Again, this verse is talking about fulfilling the PROMISE made to Abraham.
Eph. 1:13
"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,"
Paul here is telling believers that the Holy Spirit is an inward mark of God's ownership of His people.
"Sealed with the Promised Holy Spirit" has nothing to do with WHEN a person is regenerated BY the Holy Spirit.
If you go on to read verse 14 and put the verses together, Paul is saying the Holy Spirit is a "promise"
a "seal" (Like a kings signet ring) and a "guarantee".
Eph. 3:17
"so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith�that you, being rooted and grounded in love,"
Again, I don't see this as Paul TEACHING WHEN a person is regenerated. If you are trying to say that the Holy Spirit comes into a person AFTER they believe, well in Verse 16 Paul says, "that He would GRANT you..."
So, Paul says God the Father grants you His Holy Spirit, not you receiving it because you had faith.
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Now, here are the scripture verses that cause me to believe that Regeneration precedes, and CAUSES faith.
John 6:63-65
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
Here Jesus teaches that the Holy Spirit is the one who GIVES spiritual life to fallen man. Jesus does not say that the flesh is of little help, or some help, or most of the help. He says, "the flesh is NO HELP AT ALL". This is Jesus saying that the Holy Spirit must regenerate a person first, because "the flesh is no help at all."
1 John 5:1
"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him."
Here is a verse that shows the timing of things. everyone who believes, Has ALREADY been born of God.
Eph. 2:4,5
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive [quickened us] with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions � it is by grace you have been saved.
It does not say, "by your decision, you were saved and then God made you alive" It says, that God made us alive WHEN we were dead in transgressions. That is, before we repented and believed.
Again, here is the timing of WHEN God "made us alive". When was it??? "When we were dead in our trespasses"
BEFORE, we repented, and BEFORE we trusted in Jesus.
Col.2:13
"And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,"
Notice, we did not make ourselves be regenerated by a decision we made. God made us alive, who were totally spiritually dead in our trespasses.
Now, whenever I use a verse from the Old Testament, some Christian will complain and act like I should not even use it, but the truth is, all mankind has been fallen and totally spiritually dead since Adam and Eve sinned, so God must do the same thing with fallen man before Christ, as he does now. Here is a verse that shows that even in the Old Testament, regeneration comes before faith:
"And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live...Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD." - Ezekiel 37:14
THEN......"You shall know that I am the Lord."
Now this next one settled it for me, and I hope it does for you as well. There is no possible way Jesus could make this any clearer.....
John 3:3-5
Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother�s womb and be born?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Now, Jesus says, that a man can NOT "enter" or even "see the Kingdom of God" UNLESS he is already born again!
Jesus is TEACHING nicodemus, which one has to come first, and what HAS to come first, is being born again!
Now, these are not all the verses that show that regeneration precedes faith, but people complain when you post too many verses.
Here is a link to a webpage of articles concerning Regeneration:
http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Regeneration/
In Christ,
James
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