Thread: Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
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Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
Posted : 9 Dec, 2011 08:48 PM
Some just insist those that believe the word of God, are well you know, it need not be said, They will tell you that you just reject the the sovereignity of God, the voice of the intimidator.
First things first we know by the word of God that man is a three part being:
Man is a spirit and with his spirit he contacts, communes with the spirit realm.
Man the spirit has a soul: his mind, will and emotions and with the mind man communicates with the intellect.
Man the spirit has a Body that he lives in that is normally refered to as his flesh, and with his body he contacts this natural realm.
In the fall man's spirit did not die, and cease to exist, his spirit was still alive, the death is defined as the absence of the lord.
Man when he choose to could always respond to the word of God with his spirit just as the word teaches, and the heart of man is interchangable with the word Spirit, and it is the word of God received in the heart of man, and believed with the heart, with prompt obedience that is man's faith,
Man the spirit can hear and talk just like the natual man can, when you study out the parable of the sower you will realize that is what Jesus is teaching that man hears and sees with his heart or spirit.
The end result with action is faith, and this faith is accounted unto man as receiving the rightousness of God.
The part not normally understood in scripture is this the father and the lord Jesus always act in faith, and faith never leaves anyone out, faith and love are not respector's of people.
So the term's that state man is unable in any form to respond to the word of God is never true. The spirit never dies....
To know exactly what the bible mean's by spiritual death, you have to refer to the bible to understand that term.
Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
Posted : 10 Dec, 2011 04:25 PM
Sorry, James but you ARE NOT INTERPREATING THIS PASSAGE CORRECTLY according to what Paul is speaking about. Paul is talking about a person who DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE SPIRITUAL THINGS OF GOD TO UNDERSTAND THEM. This is not speaking about a person who is not able to RESPOND to the gospel, BUT TO A CARNAL MINDED OR A PERSON WHO DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THE WORD SAYS, AND HE/SHE TRIES TO UNDERSTAND GOD'S WORD WITH HIS/HER CARNAL MIND.
i don't know who your teacher is but you might have need to find someone else who is equipped with the Holy Sp[irit and receives revealtion from God to rightly didvide His word, becasue what you have posted ain't even connected to what yopu're trying to connect it to... that s pitual dead person must first be regenerated before he can hear the word of God... this is FALSE... IF A PERSON IS REGENERATED THAT MEANS THE PERSON IS ALREADY SAVED! Know the definitions of the word REGENERATED...
Corinthians 2;14The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is NOT ABLE to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
COMMENTARY BY A CALVINIST PREACHER:
1 Corinthians chapter 2: (12-13) How we can receive this wisdom. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
a. That we might know: This wisdom comes by the Spirit who is from God, not from the spirit of this world. Since every believer has received . . . the Spirit who is from God, every believer has the access to this spiritual wisdom.
i. This does not mean every believer has equal spiritual wisdom. And it does not mean we will understand all spiritual mysteries. It does mean every believer can understand the basics of the Christian message, which is unattainable (and undesirable) by human wisdom.
b. Comparing spiritual things with spiritual: Christians combine spiritual things with spiritual words; they use words and concepts taught only by the Holy Spirit.
i. Or, Paul may be speaking of the way only a spiritual man can receive spiritual things. "The passage therefore should be thus translated: Explaining spiritual things to spiritual persons." (Clarke)
4. (verses 14-16) The natural man and the spiritual man.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
a. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: The Greek word for natural man is psuchikos. It describes the materialist, who lives as if there were nothing beyond this physical life. This is the kind of life common to all animals.
i. The natural man is where we all start life; the life inherited from Adam. The natural man is unregenerate man, unsaved man.
ii. We have to deal with the material world, so there is nothing inherently sinful in "natural" life. God is not displeased when you have to eat and sleep and work. But life on this level is without spiritual insight; the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God.
iii. Spiritual things seem foolishness to the natural man. Why waste time on "spiritual" things when you could be making money or having fun?
b. The natural man doesn't want the things of God because he regards them as foolishness. What is more, he can't understand the things of God (even if he wanted to) because they are spiritually discerned. It would be wrong to expect the natural man to see and value spiritual things, just as it would be wrong to expect a corpse to see the material world.
i. The natural man is unsaved. Too many Christians still think like natural men, refusing to spiritually discern things. When our only concern is for "what works" or the "bottom line," we are not spiritually discerning, and we are thinking like the natural man, even though we might be saved.
c. He who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one: Paul is not saying that every Christian is above every criticism (after all, much of this letter is criticism). The point is clear: no natural man is equipped to judge a spiritual man.
d. Who has known the mind of the LORD: Isaiah 40:13 refers to the mind of Yahweh (translated here as Lord); but Paul has no trouble inserting mind of Christ for mind of the LORD, because Jesus is Yahweh!
Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
Posted : 10 Dec, 2011 04:31 PM
BTW James, I have studied with Chuch Swindoll from Genesis to Revelation, who is over Dallas Theologicla Seminary which is a clavinsit school, and he have NEVER HEARD he say anything as you are saying. Nor have I hreard John MacArthur, and I have also studies with him since 1983, and there are some things I totally disagree with that MacArthur speaks, but I also have never heard him explain I Corinthians a chapter 2 as you are trying to make it fit into your theological teachings that a spiritually dead person can't ehar the gospel without first being regenerated... that false teahcing my firiend!... aperson is regenerated AFTER HE/SHE HEARS THE GOSPEL otherwise the experience of being born again is VOID!
Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
Posted : 10 Dec, 2011 04:38 PM
CORRECTIONS BY ELLA: BTW James, I have studied with Chuch Swindoll from Genesis to Revelation, who is over Dallas Theologicla Seminary which is a clavinsit school, and I have NEVER HEARD he say anything as you are saying. Nor have I hreard John MacArthur, and I have also studies with him since 1983, and there are some things I totally disagree with that MacArthur speaks, but I also have never heard him explain I Corinthians a chapter 2 as you are trying to make it fit into your theological teachings, that a spiritually dead person can't HEAR the gospel without first being regenerated... that false teaching my friend!... a person is regenerated AFTER HE/SHE HEARS THE GOSPEL otherwise the experience of being born again is VOID!
Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
Posted : 10 Dec, 2011 10:23 PM
draw ALL ALL ALL ALL men .. thats enough said
In the MIND of YHWH,'all' does not say; "EACH and EVERY MAN'.
In the mind of YHWH 'all' speaks of a collection of men.
One,or many people from every Tribe,nation,and tongue.
Rev_5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
Posted : 11 Dec, 2011 12:00 AM
yes George in Revelation it says "out of every kindred and tounge" so dont you think if that what Jesus meant he would have said that and not something (all though I know it sems ambiguous) so easy to understand without complicating it as the word ALL and he even said ALL MEN! Why didnt he say some men from all nations? Dont you think Jesus anticipated idiots like me might read the bible? Yes he did and so he didnt say all and mean some of all nations and kindreds becasue that is way different than ALL!
Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
Posted : 11 Dec, 2011 12:38 PM
Elisha siad: draw ALL ALL ALL ALL men .. thats enough said
George said: In the MIND of YHWH,'all' does not say; "EACH and EVERY MAN'. In the mind of YHWH 'all' speaks of a collection of men. One,or many people from every Tribe,nation,and tongue. Rev_5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Bible Translations: John 12:32
New International Version (�1984)
But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
New Living Translation (�2007)
And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself."
English Standard Version (�2001)
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.�
New American Standard Bible (�1995)
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
International Standard Version (�2008)
As for me, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (�2010)
�And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.�
GOD'S WORD� Translation (�1995)
When I have been lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people toward me."
King James 2000 Bible (�2003)
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
American King James Version
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me.
American Standard Version
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself.
Darby Bible Translation
and I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will draw all to me.
English Revised Version
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.
Webster's Bible Translation
And I, if I shall be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me.
Weymouth New Testament
And I-- if I am lifted up from the earth--will draw all men to me."
World English Bible
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
Young's Literal Translation
and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.'
Geneva Study Bible Commentary (Calvinist Bible)
And I, if I be {e} lifted up from the earth, will draw {f} all men unto me.
(e) Christ used a word which has a double meaning, for it signifies either to lift up or to get out of the way: for he intended them to think of his death, but the Jews seemed to take it another way.
(f) Chrysostom and Theophylact say that this word all refers to all nations: that is, not only to the Jews.
Be lifted up - See John 3:14; John 8:28.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Will draw - John 6:44. The same word is used in both places.
All men - I will incline all kinds of men; or will make the way open by the cross, so that all men may come. I will provide a way which shall present a strong motive or inducement - the strongest that can be presented to all men to come to me.
Ella says: So Georege, since YOU say Jesus didn't mean what He said about drawing ALL (everyone) every person who hear the gospel and RECEIVES IT, he onyl meant a select few, and only YOU have the answer, and evryone else is WRONG according to YOUR spiritual understanding and knowledge,... help is out here... maybe you should do us a bug fvaor and look up this passage in the GREEK, as you always do to try and prove your point that we are ALL (EVERYONE) IS worng INCLUDING THE GREAT THEOLOGICANS who translated God's word.
So look up this passage and post what the Greek word ALL means for us in this passage.
Definition of ALL
1. The whole quantity, extent, duration, amount, quality, or
degree of; the whole; the whole number of; any whatever;
every; as, all the wheat; all the land; all the year; all
the strength; all happiness; all abundance; loss of all
power; beyond all doubt; you will see us all (or all of
us).
Prove all things: hold fast that which is good. --1 Thess. v. 21.
2. Any. [Obs.] ``Without all remedy.'' --Shak.
Note: When the definite article ``the,'' or a possessive or a demonstrative pronoun, is joined to the noun that all
qualifies, all precedes the article or the pronoun; as, all the cattle; all my labor; all his wealth; all our families; all your citizens; all their property; all other joys.
Note: This word, not only in popular language, but in the
Scriptures, often signifies, indefinitely, a large portion or number, or a great part. Thus, all the cattle in Egypt died, all Judea and all the region round about Jordan, all men held John as a prophet, are not to be understood in a literal sense, but as including a large part, or very great numbers.
3. Only; alone; nothing but.
I was born to speak all mirth and no matter. --Shak.
{All the whole}, the whole (emphatically). [Obs.] ``All the
whole army.'' --Shak.
All, adv.
1. Wholly; completely; altogether; entirely; quite; very; as, all bedewed; my friend is all for amusement. ``And cheeks all pale.'' --Byron.
All, n.
The whole number, quantity, or amount; the entire thing;
everything included or concerned; the aggregate; the whole;
totality; everything or every person; as, our all is at
stake.
GEORGE, PLEASE POST THE GREEK MEANING OF THIS WORD "ALL", IN THIS PASSAGE FOR US...
Some Say Dead Man Can Not Hear, Can Not Respond To The Word Of GoDd
Posted : 11 Dec, 2011 01:03 PM
JOHN 12:32
English-'ALL'
Greek-pas
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Short Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
Definition: all, the whole, every kind of.
3956 p�s � each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24).
3956 /p�s ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (anane�ō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole � viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts.
[When 3956 (p�s) modifies a word with the definite article it has "extensive-intensive" force � and is straightforward intensive when the Greek definite article is lacking.]
Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
all, every
NASB Word Usage
all (731), all the things (7), all...things (1), all kinds (1), all men (14), all people (4), all respects (3), all things (126), all* (1), always* (3), any (16), any at all (1), anyone (3), anything (3), anything* (1), continually* (6), entire (4), every (128), every form (1), every kind (9), every respect (1), every way (2), everyone (71), everyone's (1), everyone* (1), everything (45), forever* (1), full (2), great (2), no* (15), none* (1), nothing (1), nothing* (1), one (4), perfectly (1), quite (1), whatever (3), whatever* (1), whoever (7), whole (18).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright � 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation
All rights reserved Lockman.org
every, all manner of
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole -- all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
