Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 25 Dec, 2011 06:18 PM
WHAT IS BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT? While the exact phrase "baptism in the Holy Spirit" never occurs in Scripture, it is closely related to the biblical expression "baptize(d) in [or with] the Holy Spirit" ( Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 19:6; 2:4; 1:8 ;Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33).
The word "baptize" comes from the Greek word "baptizo", which means �to make fully wet, overwhelm, cover wholly". It is used to suggest that the Holy Spirit completely overwhelms a person with His presence. The word "fill" comes from the Greek word "pletho" which means "to fill, influence, supply, accomplish, furnish". It is used to suggest how the Holy Spirit influences and empowers a person by His presence. the baptism (or infilling) of the Holy Spirit is an overwhelming, consuming experience whereby the Holy Spirit consumes the believer with spiritual power and energy that is available no other way. To illustrate, if we drink water from a glass, then the water would be inside us. However, if we went to the beach and stepped into the ocean, then we would be in the water. We receive, as it were, a drink of the Holy Spirit when we are saved, but when we are baptized in the Spirit, it is as if that initial drink becomes an ocean that completely surrounds.
The word baptism refers literally to a "dipping" or "immersing" in water. When one uses the term baptism in the Holy Spirit, it is parallel to what is being described by the term baptism in water. Christian water baptism is an initiatory rite, acknowledging conversion and the indwelling presence of the Spirit.7 The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a subsequent powerful, overwhelming immersion in the Holy Spirit. While New Testament believers sometimes received later infillings of the Spirit (Acts 4:31), "baptism" in the Holy Spirit in all the biblical examples happens only once to an individual.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is the specific event that introduces the believer to the ongoing process of living a Spirit-empowered life. It is an experience distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth. Its initial physical evidence is speaking in tongues.
The very essence of Pentecostalism is the recognition that the experience of conversion, while supremely precious, does not exhaust God�s supply of what is available to the believer. Scripture makes it clear that all believers have the Holy Spirit (indwelling) (Romans 8:9, 16; Eph. 1: 13-14; 4: 30; 2 Cor. 1: 21-22). However, the constant hunger for "more of God" is the heartbeat of Pentecostalism. It is a life-changing experience available to every believer.
THE IMPORTANCE OF BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT: With it comes the endowment of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4,8; 1 Cor. 12:1-31). This experience is distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth (Acts 8:12-17; 10:44-46; 11:14-16; 15:7-9). With the baptism in the Holy Spirit come such experiences as an overflowing fullness of the Spirit (John 7:37�39; Acts 4:8), a deepened reverence for God (Acts 2:43; Hebrews 12:28), an intensified consecration to Him and a dedication to His work (Acts 2:42), and a more active love for Christ, for His Word, and for the lost (Mark 16:20).
The baptism in the Holy Spirit is just the open door leading into a Spirit-filled life�a fact that can be easily overlooked, even by Pentecostals. The manifestation of supernatural gifts in the life of a believer who has not been baptized in the Holy Spirit is possible, but being baptized opens the door to a more dynamic, more effective manifestation. Empowered service and holy living accompany the Spirit-filled life after the Baptism initiation. Salvation is an initiation experience leading to Christ likeness, the baptism in the Holy Spirit marks a supernatural endowment leading to Christ like ministry in the power of the Spirit. We are not more loved because we have received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, but we have become better equipped to witness with boldness to God�s abundant grace..
Can believers who have not experienced the baptism in the Holy Spirit minister with supernatural signs following? The answer is yes (Mark 16:17)
INDWELLING IS NOT THE SAME AS HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM.
Acts 8:12-19 - The Samaritans believed and were baptized (v12), so they were saved (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Eph. 1: 13-14; 4: 30; 2 Cor. 1: 21-22 ). When they were forgiven, they immediately received the indwelling. However, the Spirit had not yet fallen on them (v 15,16). The Spirit was indwelling them, yet in another sense they did not have the Holy Spirit. They received this when the apostles came and laid hands on them (vv 14-19).
TONGUES AS INITIAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE:
Acts describes five occasions on which people received an empowering of the Spirit for the first time (i.e., baptism in the Spirit)
The expression "initial physical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit" refers to the first outward, observable sign that the Holy Spirit has come in filling power.( Acts 2:4 ;9:10-19;10:44-48;19:1-6 ;8:17-19). In Acts 8:18 had the experience been only by faith without any accompanying sign, Simon would not have known whether the Samaritan believers actually received the Holy Spirit.
WHAT IS SPEAKING IN TONGUES?
Speaking in tongues is a language that you, the speaker, don�t understand. 1 Corinthians 13:1 It is a language given to a believer by the Lord, and it�s a language of men or angels.
Speaking in tongues speaks the wonderful works of God.
It praises God; It gives God thanks.; It speaks a sacred secret to God.; It prays � that language is praise
Speaking in tongues is the physical, biblical evidence that one is baptized in the Holy Spirit. The apostles and believers accepted tongues as convincing evidence of the baptism in the Spirit: "When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God" Acts 11:17-18).
Is speaking in tongue the only evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit and a Spirit-filled life? No, but they are always the initial, or first, evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit as the entrance into a Spirit-filled life. Empowerment for witness; enthusiasm and boldness in witnessing, divine guidance and enabling in the presentation of the gospel, and miraculous manifestations of God�s power before unbelievers all may serve as additional evidences of baptism in the Holy Spirit, though not as substitutions for speaking in tongues. The Spirit-filled life should also demonstrate progressive development toward a complete Christ like character
DO ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES? ( Mark 16: 17 ;1 Cor 12 :10,28,30; 14: 5,18,23) NKJV Paul is talking about public ministry gifts that are manifested in the church in 1 Cor 12 :10,28,30. Every believer can and should speak in supernatural languages given by the Holy Spirit
WHY SPEAK IN TONGUES? Speaking in tongues will not make you better than someone else -- but it will help you.
1. It is God's will. (1 Cor 14:5, 37)
2. Jesus said we would. Mark 16:17 NKJV
3. It builds you up spiritually. (1 Cor. 14: 14) AMP
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself (1 Cor. 14:4) . 4. It stimulates your faith because faith must be exercised to speak in tongues.(Jude 1:20)
5. It enables you to pray for things you otherwise would not even know about. (Ro. 8:26 )
6. It helps you pray according to God's will. It eliminates unbelief and selfishness from your praying. (Ro. 8:26, 27 ; Jn 14:16-17 )
7. It provides a spiritual rest and refreshing. (Isaiah 28:11-12)
8. It is a supernatural evidence (reminder) of the Holy Spirit's indwelling. As you continue to speak in tongues you stay conscious of His presence. (Acts 2: 4 )
9. It is a means of releasing the wisdom and guidance of God (1 Cor. 14:2; 2:7). 10. It is a supernatural means of communication with God (1 Cor. 14:2).
11. It provides a way to give thanks well (1Cor. 14: 15-17).
12. Brings the tongue under subjection. If you can yield your tongue, you can yield any member (Jas 3:8).
13. It allows the Holy Spirit to help you in the most important area, speaking the right words, so the will of God will be accomplished in your life. (ACTS 2:4; MARK 11:23).
14. Gifts and power are released in your life (ACTS 1:8; Jn 7:38-39).
15. It is the supernatural way to worship and magnify God (Jn 16:13-14; Acts 10:46)
NOTE: Though we believe speaking in tongues is the unmistakable initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, we do not believe it signifies instant maturity. There are many other evidences that a life continues to be filled with the Spirit and is growing and maturing spiritually.
Having spoken in tongues upon being baptized in the Spirit, the believer must continue to respond to the supernatural promptings of the Holy Spirit (Eph. 6: 18; Jude 20).
Though not all Spirit-filled believers are given the gift of tongues which through interpretation edifies the church congregation (1 Cor. 12:30), they all have the privilege of praying in the Spirit, especially at times when the human intellect does not know how to pray. We believe this last-days outpouring of the Holy Spirit is God�s sovereign move to meet the satanic challenges of the day and to prepare Christ�s bride for His soon return.
The overwhelmingly godless condition of society today, with evil becoming increasingly rampant, calls for a Spirit-filled church that can meet the challenges of Satan with a supernatural demonstration of the Holy Spirit power.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 08:58 AM
For whatever reason no one seem to read past certain verses of Scripture to try to prove their OWN point and stance.
Several translations and commentaries of what thus says the LORD the author of His Holy Word?... so you guys can argue and debate what God says out of His own mouth...
There is NOT ONE SCRIPTUIRE IN GOD'S WORD THAT TELLS US THE GIFS HAVE CEASED.
It is as those who agree an believe have said, it is due to UNBELIEF... and God through the power of His Holy Spirit does not work in the hearts of a person who DOES NOT BELIEVE.
We find thoughout the word that people were not saved, healed or delivered because of their UNBELEIF... The tongues (language) are as Paul says, A SIGN for THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT BELIEVE... and I would dare any of you WHO DO NOT BELIEVE to ask God to prove this gift to you to HELP YOUR UNBELIEF.. then come back and tells us your story.
Speaking in tongues is not for given to all who believe, and it is not a sign for those who do believe, and yes it was given to apostles but only to those for the works of the ministry if you carefully read the book of Acts, and is still given for such works to ministry to give the word to those who do not understand a certain native language...
I have no idea and the scripturs do not say one word about a prayer language, can't speak into this nor find such in scripture addressing this. Praying in the Spiriat does not mean in tongues, it means connecting your spirit with the Holy Spirit as one when you pray in spirit and truth from a sincere heart, communicatiing with God. Because He can only communicate with us thorugh our spirit, because He is Spirit... it aint' about speaking in tongues to him... BUT TO THE PERSON WHO BELIEVES they are speaking in tongues to God... God says, so it shall be!
Geneva Study Bible CALVIN BIBLE - this would seem to contradict what you posted James about the gifts have ceased coming from the Geneva Bible...God ahs not told us no such thing that the gofts have ceased, as I have always posted on this topic, if the gifts oif the Holy Spirit have ceased, then the Holy Spirit has ceased... the only gift God tells us has ceased is the gift of apsoleship in Hebrews chapter 1, God has said all he needed to say and write about Jesus and Jesus has come forth and done all He needed to do in the flesh and there is nothing else to be writting about Jesus... this si why the apostleship gift has ceased... all other gifts are still being manifested to qthose who believe in the gifts.
{18} Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. (18) Prophecy ought certainly to be retained and kept in congregations, and the gift of tongues is not to be forbidden, but all things must be done orderly
New International Version (�1984)
Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
New Living Translation (�2007)
So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don't forbid speaking in tongues.
English Standard Version (�2001)
So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
New American Standard Bible (�1995)
Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
International Standard Version (�2008)
Therefore, my brothers, desire the ability to prophesy, and do not prevent others from speaking in other languages.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (�2010)
Be zealous therefore, my brethren, to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in languages.
GOD'S WORD� Translation (�1995)
So, brothers and sisters, desire to speak what God has revealed, and don't keep anyone from speaking in other languages.
King James 2000 Bible (�2003)
Therefore, brethren, be eager to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
American King James Version
Why, brothers, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
English Revised Version
Wherefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
World English Bible
Therefore, brothers, desire earnestly to prophesy, and don't forbid speaking with other languages.
COMMENTARIES
Barnes Notes
Covet to prophesy - See the note at 1 Corinthians 14:1. This is the "summing up" of all that he had said. It was "desirable" that a man should wish to be able to speak, under the teaching of the Holy Spirit, in such a manner as to edify the church. And forbid not ... - Do not suppose that the power of speaking foreign languages is useless, or is to be despised, or that it is to be prohibited. "In its own place" it is a valuable endowment; and on proper occasions the talent should be exercised; see in 1 Corinthians 14:22.
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Covet to prophesy - Let it be your endeavor and prayer to be able to teach the way of God to the ignorant; this is the most valuable, because the most useful gift of the Spirit. And forbid not to speak with tongues - Let every gift have its own place and operation; let none envy another; nor prevent him from doing that part of the work to which God, by giving the qualification, has evidently called him.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy,.... The apostle now draws to a conclusion, and reassumes the exhortation he gave in the beginning of the chapter, pressing the members of this church to desire the gift of prophecy, that being the most eligible and preferable to others, particularly to speaking with tongues, since it was the most useful and edifying, as he abundantly proves: and forbid not to speak with tongues; such as have that gift, and are desirous of exercising it, provided they observe the rules prescribed, and have an interpreter; this he adds to promote love, and prevent dissension and discord.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 09:14 AM
Once again, as I have posted many time on the topic concerning the spiritual gift, and James and other who DO NOT BELIVE, use I Corinthians cahpter 13, to try an prove thier point...
I Corinthinas chpater 13, IS NOT ABOUT THE GIFT CEASING! It is about the charcater and behavior of LOVE, and Paul points out that all although a person may have all the gifts there are to have, the person is nothing unles he/she has the love of the charcater of Christ in their hearts.
ALL THE GIFTS WILL CEASE WHEN HE 9JESUS WHO IS PERFECT SHALL COME.. ECPECT THE GIFT OF LOVE! This is what that passages means James, nothing more and nothing LESS.
It does not say one word that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased.
Y'all PLEASE READ WILL THE GUIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND STIP MISINTERPRETING GOD'S DIVINE WORD! Misusing God's Word to try and support your points... READ WITH UNDERSTANDING AND ALLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT TO REVEAL TO YOU THOSE THINGS YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND...
(NIV) I Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, THEY WILL be stilled; where there is knowledge, IT WILL pass away. 9. For (or Because) we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 BUT when completeness comes (JESUS COMES), what is in part disappears (meaning we will know and understand all things in the fullness as it is suppose to be know to us).
(NKJV)I Corinthians 13: 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 BUT when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 09:17 AM
@shalome, just as you can stop using the gifts of the spirit if thats what you choose to do, you can walk away from thr faith, losing your salvation may have been a poor choice of words, God would never just take it away from you however if we have the choice of accepting and not rejecting Him then we make that choice all throughout our life! and Donna and James need not even chime in with their elect doctrine I am aaware ysll disagree and I am not even attempting to make you agree! shalome I didnt think you would be one to pick apart what I said, you knew what I meant it was obviouse the Holy Spirit is somehtting he sent to eaqrth for believers dalvation comes to each individual believer one at a time he wouldnt take either one! But we ceretainly have the option of giving them up!
the is a bad example but since we just has Christmas I will use it
supose you have a bunch of gifts under the tree??? (salvation is a gift right)
well dont you have the option of not ever picking them up opening them? and supose you do pick up a gift unwrap it and its someting wonderful but dont you have the option of putting it on a shelf and not using it? Now the person that gave it to you didnt take it back did they? It was still given oto you freely! so if these gifts thet God has given us are gifts really then they have the same charcteristics of a gift!
I dont know how in the world people think they can arugue that something isnt possible with me when they have never experienced it and I have! I have experienced how terrible it is to walk away from your salvation after being saved a while then turning my eyes back to the world and thinking I lked my sin too much for right then in my life and thinking I am young I wont die anytime soon and hopefuly jesus wont come back till I finish up with all my sin! Gewtting eventualy to a point where I very rarely even thought about the fact that I was in a state that would get me eternity in hell! If god had not broke in on me again (which is exectly what happend the first time) I would still be living in that sin! So I exsperienced the same exact thing twice the first time I repented and believed which is nessacary for salvation regeneration was apparent in my life and I eventualy started letting small sins into my life comprimising on little things until eventualy I was in bars and not in church I wasnt reading my bible praying and I was never even hardly thinking about the lord! a tree is aparent by the fruit it bares so i went from baring fruit to not baring fruit but works of the flesh again! Now I bare fruit again!
so it can and did happen to me how can anyone argue that?
you can say I wasnt saved the first time all you want to but I know I was I loved the lord godly sorrow has occured and I had repented it was the exact same experience as I had the last time this time I will never ever look back
but I am not diluted so much that I think I will change minds so yall dont be so diluted that you think you will change mine especialy on something I have expereinced and you have not.
sin sepeates us from God so if you have sin in your life that you have not repented from you are seperated from god and the more you sin without repenting the biggir the space between you and God becomes
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 09:21 AM
James, GREAT POINT !... THEREFORE, if YOUR early church fathers KNEW the gifts of the Holy Spirit had ceased, this is why many don't believe a word none of them have written, because they sure were not writing under the INSPIRED ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit by REVEALTION FROM GOD! AS DID AND WERE THE APOSTLES WHO WRTOE GOD'S DIVINE WORD OF TRUTH..
MAYBE THIS IS WHY SO MUCH OF WHAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN IS NOT SPIRIT FILLED IN SPIRITUAL ERROR AND MISLEADING ... BECAUSE THEY WRE WRITING UNDER THEIR OWN SPIRITS AND OPINIONS OF THEIR OWN MINDS, AND DID NOT, NOR WERE THEY OPERATING UNDER THE REVEALTION, OR LEADERSHIP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT...
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 01:19 PM
Charity never faitheth; but whether there s prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1 Cor. 13:8
These three will cease because; they are Partial in nature and will be unnecessary when what is complete has come.
Holy Ghost babtisim/ indwelling and infilling are 2 seperate events in a believers life
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 01:52 PM
shalome I didnt think you would be one to pick apart what I said, you knew what I meant it was obviouse the Holy Spirit is somehtting he sent to eaqrth for believers dalvation comes to each individual believer one at a time he wouldnt take either one! But we ceretainly have the option of giving them up!
I thought that was why we are here, to pick apart and understand the scriptures. The point I was making was if G-d is not an Indian giver, than one cannot lose salvation or the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
New International Version (�1984)
for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
New Living Translation (�2007)
For God's gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.
English Standard Version (�2001)
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
New American Standard Bible (�1995)
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
International Standard Version (�2008)
For God's gifts and calling never change.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (�2010)
For God does not change in his gifts and in his callings.
GOD'S WORD� Translation (�1995)
God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.
King James 2000 Bible (�2003)
For the gifts and calling of God are unchangeable.
American King James Version
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
American Standard Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.
Douay-Rheims Bible
For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance.
Darby Bible Translation
For the gifts and the calling of God are not subject to repentance.
English Revised Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance.
Webster's Bible Translation
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Weymouth New Testament
For God does not repent of His free gifts nor of His call;
World English Bible
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Young's Literal Translation
for unrepented of are the gifts and the calling of God;
