I believe there are a few people which believe they are able to LOSE their salvation,
Or rather to have been saved and then to become UNSAVED do to sin,or by walking away from Yeshua.
The Scripture which most people go to is found in Hebrews chapter 6,verses 1-6.
Could we look into the Scripture to find if this is ACTUALLY saying that a person is able to become 'UNSAVED'.
I will be using the King James Version,as this is closest to the actual understanding.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Let us take verses 4-6 and tend to these.
In these next few verses pleas note that we are dealing with a RHETORICAL question here.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
In these verses is addressed the 'IMPOSSIBLITY' of a person which has become UNSAVED,to become saved again.
The arguement for this is found in verse 6.
Yeshua would have to be 'CRUCIFIED' every time a person would become unsaved,and then save that person again.
Actually,this person would need someone else to be going to Calvary,seeing that Yeshua had gone ONLY ONE time.
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Now the question is this.
When a persons sins,commits sin;has sin yet hates the sin and wants freedom.
Is their Salvation in Jeopardy,or is the FELLOWSHIP broken.
Is ones RELATIONSHIP removed,or is the FELLOWSHIP broken.
A person turns their back and walks away.
Does the GOOD SHEPHERD go after His wayward sheep?
When you answer please give Biblical responses only.
Agapeton this scripture is nothing of what you said in context but it is totally related to Acts 2:4, you can not approach the word of God mentally, one either accepts it, or rejects the truth.
This is a fact the bible was written to spirit filled people, that had received the Holy Ghost as the book of Acts exhorted all to do and they had walked in that truth and if they turned around and at a later time turned their back on it their came a time of no repentance just as the word declares.
PJ, Is the Acts 2:4 verse the only thing you read and apply to in the Bible, brother, or are you just prone to chase people around because they proved you wrong on something you have no proof of? I'm curious, bro, cause this seems to evident in you in other topics against certain people you might have spoken or discussed something with. Is everything ok with you, brother?
Scripture says that the believer in Christ has the mind of Christ. If the Scriptures were written to Spirit filled people then no one would come to Christ by hearing the word of God since it is the only thing that brings faith to the person. The one thing that one has to do is be born again to see or enter the kingdom of God. Do you agree?
agapton, I agree with you the scriptures are not only written to the spirit filled people as it plainly says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.. however you didnt prove anyone wrong anymore than anyone proved you wrong people have been debating these scriptures for centuries and if there has up until now not been a break through where it was completly clear and there was no way to deny it, then we certainly arent going to have one now, we will be dabating this (we being believers that disagree) until we die or Jesus calls us home!
So I still believe what I believe it would have to take a lot more than a litle debate over the second chapter of acts to make me think I been wrong all along! especialy when I KNOW FOR SURE that I am spirit filled andI have seen and experienced supernatural things, healings by the laying on of hands for ome, and I completly believe that if people can be divinely healed as i was from a disease that would have proably taken my life by now, and GOD used the hands of mu pastor and some ohter on my bros and sises at my church back home as conduits for his power to heal me!! well what I am trying to say is I cant believe and know that happend and still not believe in the holy ghost babtism and speakining in toungs and the 2 go hand in hand!!
O also want to point out that it seems if we were wrong (we being the unified body of the church I attened back home) about speaking in tounges and the gifts of the spirit tthen it dont seem like the Lord would confirm to us we are right and heal me from HCV divinly??
agapton, I agree with you the scriptures are not only written to the spirit filled people as it plainly says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.. however you didnt prove anyone wrong anymore than anyone proved you wrong people have been debating these scriptures for centuries and if there has up until now not been a break through where it was completly clear and there was no way to deny it, then we certainly arent going to have one now, we will be dabating this (we being believers that disagree) until we die or Jesus calls us home!
Actually, sister. This belief of tongues is a new one and came about withing the last few hundred years or so. It would be considered a "new" doctrine. People have been debating this for that long opnly. Tongues has been long proved as being fulfilled and a sign to unbelievers that has ended, as Paul said.
So I still believe what I believe it would have to take a lot more than a litle debate over the second chapter of acts to make me think I been wrong all along! especialy when I KNOW FOR SURE that I am spirit filled andI have seen and experienced supernatural things, healings by the laying on of hands for ome, and I completly believe that if people can be divinely healed as i was from a disease that would have proably taken my life by now, and GOD used the hands of mu pastor and some ohter on my bros and sises at my church back home as conduits for his power to heal me!! well what I am trying to say is I cant believe and know that happend and still not believe in the holy ghost babtism and speakining in toungs and the 2 go hand in hand!!
ME; You can go on believing what ever you want to believe, sister. I'm not one to tell you how you should personally feel regarding what you want to hear or believe contrary to Scripture. I have not said that you aren't spirit filled nor have I even hinted at the fact. As a matter of fact, one who is being claimed of not being spirit filled here is by our mutual brother in the faith, phillipjohn. I have made no claim to him nor anyone else for that matter, since i know it is not my place to judge who is genuine or not in belief. Let him and the rest of all who think like that according to their own personal experience. I am going by Scriptural proof here. not experiential one because experiential proof is not always correct and therefore personal due to emotional bias. No offense intended by my stating thus. it is merely fact. But if it does offend then I am sorry.
O also want to point out that it seems if we were wrong (we being the unified body of the church I attened back home) about speaking in tounges and the gifts of the spirit tthen it dont seem like the Lord would confirm to us we are right and heal me from HCV divinly??
RIGHT? He wouldnt confirm a lie would he?
God doesn't confirm or make denominational beliefs or statements based of personal convictions that groups agree upon, sister. Man does and uses Scripture to back his belief by it. We in Christ mean well, but tend to ruin the truth because of our own yearnings for something to be true, sister. That is our natural response to God's word. What is important is that God's word stands and as keep on falling while calling on him until he comes.
agapeton, I wasnt refering only to the debate on tounges but all these scriptires tha people have problems agreeing on, but even if I did mean tonges I said centeries not millenia, so a few humdred years covers it, I I am not the idiot everone really thinks I am I am very aware of the timeline concerning the pentecostal denomination and I am quite sure the debates hasnt going on too many years prior to the azuza street revival allthough I am very aware also that people were speaking in tounge in europ before that it, wasnt that wide s[read azuza street is when it got popular enough to have been dwebated, or not tpp much lomger than that.. jusr makin clear what I said, even though you completly ignored the spirit in which i said it and the contexr and just picked apart my reply and stuck holes in it, my poiny is you havent won and you definaly have not convinced me of anything! Satan will do all sorts of things agpeton to cause doubts si I cant givfe him any room to pus any doubt in my mind if I go i can gert into truble
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
George if you know the truth it is pertitnent to, being on topic, otherwords when you know the truth and someone else does not!
George, who are you to tell us we have to stick to the subject? If the thread takes another turnthen thats our buisness! You are a proud man! You dont get to boss people around! You are not the cdff poilice or boss man!! and you certainly aint the boss of me! so if you dont like it hen deal with it or dont read it! Why dont you just not worry about reading my posts at all? I cant figure out why you read them anyway you obviously know I am an idiot who doesnt know anything about the bible or the Lord andnow according to you I cant stay on the topic!! SO WHY READ MY POSTS???? NI wasnt speaking to you as I said agopeton! I was talking to him, and if you read it after I adressed someone else personaly then if you dont like it so what! You surely had the right to read it but I wasnt talking to you! I am so sick of you bullying everybody and jumping all over people all the simew that dont worship your god or attend the church of the flying spagettie monstare or whereever it is you go! So back off and let people do what they want to if they are not hurting you!
