*** Well...there are 10 Laws that Father GOD set in Stone...Exo 20:1-17 thats so we would always have them...and he also writes then in our hearts so we never forget them...Heb 8:8-10...and...Jesus said in ~ Mat 22:36-40
ME: The 10 commandments set in stone WAS THE covenant made with the Jews sister.
Exodus 34:27-28 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant,THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two TABLEES OF STONE.
Deuteronomy 9:9 When I was gone up into the mount to receive the TABLES OF STONE, even the tables of the covenant which the LORD made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water:
Deuteronomy 5:1-3 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Those TEN COMMANDMENTS, TALES OF STONE, WERE THE FOUNDATION OF THE OLD COVENANT AND WERE MADE OBSOLETE.
Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the FIRST ONE OBSOLETE. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 9:1-4 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of al; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and THE TABLES OF THE COVENANT;
Also, Jesus was speaking to Jews UNDER THE LAW in Mat. 22. He was using something that the Scriptures teach us that Paul expounded upon. Jesus was using the LAW AS A TUTOR TO BRING THEM TO THE MESSIAH.
elishabroadway I am starting to see a pattern, of you (agapeton) asking us a question or our opinion and then you seem to think you already know what we will say and you anticipate our answers then tell us every reason why we are wrong as if you knew what we would say!
ME: Actually, sister. I'm making topics cause i want to know how people read the Scriptures in light of what is in front of them and see if they come up with the right thing. The least you can do is look into the text without any emotional biased or ASK ME WHAT I'M DOING instead of just making blind assumptions and then acting on them. I ask the same way Jesus did in the Scriptures. Jesus taught BY ASKING.
My answer is this, we are not saved because we keep the law we keep the law because we are saved and as far as your earlier question about keeping the sabbath, well that was explained when it was said the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath..
the rest of the commandments yes we should keep them all each and every one, why wouldnt you? and on top of that Jesus didnt take the comandments away xpounded on the commandments about adultry and murder by saying you do not have to acutly commit the acts to be guilty of them!
ME: So you are saying that only SOME laws in the Old Covenant apply to us, sister? Wasn't the 4th command also part of the LAW that was set in stone?
James says that if you stumble in one part of the law you stumble in ALL OF IT. So how can we only keep PART OF THE LAW OF MOSES AS CHRISTIANS, sister?
Elisha, Agapheton, is just coming into the knowledge of God's word, and it has not settled yet into his spirit, therefore, he is only testing those things he has learned and is learning. This is a perfect example and sign of a new believer who is coming into a knowledge and understanding of some things he is reading in the Word, and some things he is being taught.
The law is holy, righteous, spiritual and good, and is an expression of God's righteousness and who He is, and as Christians believers, we are to follow God's law.
Sin, not the law produces death. The law shows us our sins and that we are under the control of our sin nature, and the law points us to Christ, who is the only one who can help us over come the law of sin working in our sin nature.
The law also becasue it is an expression of God's righteousness, the law has the characteristics of the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of God, and we are to follow and obey the law of His Spirit as according to the leadership of the Holy Spirit.This is why He came to live inside of us, so that we might depend totally on Him to guide and lead us into all things and into the righteousness of the Father.
WE can't keep the whole law of the 10 Commandments, but we can obey the whole law of the Ten Commandments through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, which points us to Chirst living on the inside of us, that it might be well with our souls. The Ten Commandments are God's standards for a Christian lifestyle and we are to observe them faithfully, Jesus did not come to do away with the Ten Commandments, as it has been said so many time, but seems like those who have thier own thoughts and opinions don't get it... Jesus came to FULFILL THE LAW, in that, there is no longer a need fo r ritual or ceremonial sacrifices as were made in the Old Testament to cover sin debts... Jesus is now our sins debyt paid in full, and our mediator, and advocate, and we now go before God and ask for forgiveness of our sins, and Jesus intercedes on our behalf before the Father for His mercy and grace to cover us... that is. all who have received Jesus Christ into their lives as thier personal Lord and Savior.
If we obey the first of the Ten Commandments, we do well, and all the others will fall into place: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, �You shall not covet.� But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
The laws that Christians WILL follow IF they are truly born again, are the Ten commandments.
Jesus' sermon on the Mount is Jesus TEACHING nine of the Ten, and not to merely follow them outwardly but INWARDLY.
Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath partially, and so it has changed and that is something Christians have been divided on, as to HOW to obey it, but that is for another time.
The Ceremonial laws, and the Dietary laws have been done away with.
I think it is wise to know the dietary laws, for health reasons, but there is no compulsion now for God's people to obey it.
Lu 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Elisha, Agapheton, is just coming into the knowledge of God's word, and it has not settled yet into his spirit, therefore, he is only testing those things he has learned and is learning. This is a perfect example and sign of a new believer who is coming into a knowledge and understanding of some things he is reading in the Word, and some things he is being taught.
The law is holy, righteous, spiritual and good, and is an expression of God's righteousness and who He is, and as Christians believers, we are to follow God's law.
Sin, not the law produces death. The law shows us our sins and that we are under the control of our sin nature, and the law points us to Christ, who is the only one who can help us over come the law of sin working in our sin nature.
The law also becasue it is an expression of God's righteousness, the law has the characteristics of the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of God, and we are to follow and obey the law of His Spirit as according to the leadership of the Holy Spirit.This is why He came to live inside of us, so that we might depend totally on Him to guide and lead us into all things and into the righteousness of the Father.
WE can't keep the whole law of the 10 Commandments, but we can obey the whole law of the Ten Commandments through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, which points us to Chirst living on the inside of us, that it might be well with our souls. The Ten Commandments are God's standards for a Christian lifestyle and we are to observe them faithfully, Jesus did not come to do away with the Ten Commandments, as it has been said so many time, but seems like those who have thier own thoughts and opinions don't get it... Jesus came to FULFILL THE LAW, in that, there is no longer a need fo r ritual or ceremonial sacrifices as were made in the Old Testament to cover sin debts... Jesus is now our sins debyt paid in full, and our mediator, and advocate, and we now go before God and ask for forgiveness of our sins, and Jesus intercedes on our behalf before the Father for His mercy and grace to cover us... that is. all who have received Jesus Christ into their lives as thier personal Lord and Savior.
If we obey the first of the Ten Commandments, we do well, and all the others will fall into place: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, �You shall not covet.� But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
ME: This is all well and good, sister, BUT HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT THE JEWS ONLY HAD AN OLD COVENANT WITH GOD THAT WAS ABOLISHED ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ?
WHY would A CHRISTIAN seek justification in THE LAW OF MOSES when Jesus give us A NEW COMMAND which signified a NEW COVENANT and ABOLISHING THE OLD COVENANT according to the Scriptures?
Wouldn't that be EXACTLY what the non-believers and Jews say about the New Testament worshipers about them only picking and choosing what they want and throwing out the rest from the Bible?
So, let me ask you a question according to what you posted on Romans 7, ARE WE STILL MARRIED TO THE LAW OF MOSES?
Because IF WE FOLLOW ANY PART OF THAT LAW THEN WE BRING TO LIFE ALL OF IT INTO OUR MARRIAGE.
Agapeton, you're good about ASKING QUESTIONS THEN, as Elisha says, when the answer IS NOT as you wish, and/or think it should be, you say its not right... but you yourself have yet to ANSWER OR EXPLAIN any QUESTIONS or SCRIPTURES outside of saying its all wrong... are YOU a Christian believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and the Word of God? Or are you a believer ONLY of those things that itche your ears and make you feel good inside, and are not according to ALL that is in the Word of God's truth... whose truth are you listening to, and believiing , your OWN OR YOUR TEACHERS?
So to start, maybe you should EXPLAIN TO US WHAT ALL THIS MEANS THAT JESUS IS SAYING IN THE PASSAGES... AND WHAT DOES HE MEAN WHEN HE SAYS, HE DID NOT COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, BUT HE CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW... What is the meaning of all of this?
Matthew 5:17. �Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Murder
21 �You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, �You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.� But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, �Raca,� is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, �You fool!� will be in danger of the fire of hell.
27 �You have heard that it was said, �You shall not commit adultery.� But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. �It has been said, �Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.� But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
33 �Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, �Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.� But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God�s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. All you need to say is simply �Yes� or �No�; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
38 �You have heard that it was said, �Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.� But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
43 �You have heard that it was said, �Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.� But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
The laws that Christians WILL follow IF they are truly born again, are the Ten commandments.
Jesus' sermon on the Mount is Jesus TEACHING nine of the Ten, and not to merely follow them outwardly but INWARDLY.
ME: So we are to follow only the parts where the Law of Moses makes sense to us Christians even though the old covenant was made with the Jews and we have a new and better one in Christ?
OK.
Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath partially, and so it has changed and that is something Christians have been divided on, as to HOW to obey it, but that is for another time.
ME:I thought that Colossians 2:13-17 says that Jesus did away with every ordinance and law by nailing them to the cross and that they were all a shadow of him, brother. How odd.
The Ceremonial laws, and the Dietary laws have been done away with.
ME: ALL OF THE LAWS HAVE BEEN DONE AWAY WITH, brother. Jesus said that He came to FULFILL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. Are you saying that Jesus WAS NOT THE FULFILLMENT and DID NOT FULFILL ALL OF THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS WHEN HE CAME?
Plus, the Scriptures group the 10 commandments along with all the other laws and ordinances together within the LAW OF MOSES.
What dictates the LAW OF MOSES AND THE LAW OF THE LORD, brother?
I think it is wise to know the dietary laws, for health reasons, but there is no compulsion now for God's people to obey it.
ME: But the Word says that the TEN COMMANDMENTS WERE THE LAW OF MOSES THAT WERE WRITTEN ON TABLES OF STONE. You agree?
Agapeton, I really don't think YOU have a very clear understanding of what the LAW is yourself or is all about.
Every Christian believer knows that we are NOT saved or justified by the law.... Romans and Galtians tells us this and so deos Ephesians, that it is by grace whcih was God's provsison through Jesus Christ, and on our part through faith to believe in what God did thorugh Jesus Christ on the cross, so what are you talking about?
For what the LAW couldn't do GRACE MERCY LOVE, DID FOR US THROUGH THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHIRST.
None of this has to do with Christian believers obey the Ten Commandment laws of God... whether Jews, Greek, Asians, or Russians... its hwat Jesus Christ did on the cros that we are justified and saved from sins, that is, of course, if we are to have faith to believe...
Justification adn righteousness does not come from the law, but thorugh Jesus and obedience to the leadership of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ became out propitiaiton, not the law!
