Thread: Does this verse of Scripture DENY the Deity of Yeshua / Jesus
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Does this verse of Scripture DENY the Deity of Yeshua / Jesus
Posted : 17 Feb, 2012 02:15 PM
I believe the following English translation of the Greek Scriptures has been translated wrongly,misleading people to believe that Yeshua in His humanity did not know the time of His return.
Please study this out before replying.
Mark 13:32
(KJV) But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
(KJV+) ButG1161 ofG4012 thatG1565 dayG2250 andG2532 that hourG5610 knowethG1492 no man,G3762 no, notG3761 theG3588 angelsG32 whichG3588 are inG1722 heaven,G3772 neitherG3761 theG3588 Son,G5207 butG1508 theG3588 Father.G3962
(LITV) But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(YLT) `And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known--not even the messengers who are in the heaven, not even the Son--except the Father.
Does this verse of Scripture DENY the Deity of Yeshua / Jesus
Posted : 17 Feb, 2012 06:26 PM
The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son and the Son glorifies the Father. We pray to the Father, not the Son, however, if you ask anything in Jesus name it will be done, according to the will of the Father.
Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
All authority has been given to Christ, given to Him by His Father. It was His Father who placed all things under His feet. It was His Father who gave Him a name above every name, a name that will cause all men to bow. It was His Father who awarded His obedience. It was His Father who had Him crucified. It was His Father who decreed that He should bear the sins of His people. It was His Father who had Him slain from the foundation. It pleased the Father to do all these things.
Does this verse of Scripture DENY the Deity of Yeshua / Jesus
Posted : 17 Feb, 2012 06:35 PM
shalom716: The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son and the Son glorifies the Father. We pray to the Father, not the Son, however, if you ask anything in Jesus name it will be done, according to the will of the Father.
ME: John 14:14 ESV If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
Jesus said that, sister.
Stephen also Prayed to him too.
Act 7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
All authority has been given to Christ, given to Him by His Father. It was His Father who placed all things under His feet. It was His Father who gave Him a name above every name, a name that will cause all men to bow. It was His Father who awarded His obedience. It was His Father who had Him crucified. It was His Father who decreed that He should bear the sins of His people. It was His Father who had Him slain from the foundation. It pleased the Father to do all these things.
ME: It was His Father who WORSHIPED Him.
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Does this verse of Scripture DENY the Deity of Yeshua / Jesus
Posted : 18 Feb, 2012 04:36 AM
Sal:
I did check the Greek,
I also had a person which had been working with me towards understanding the Greek,She read this Scripture and agrees that the English Scripture in Mark 13:32 denies Yeshua His deity.
This is one of the verses of Scripture which the cults use to NOT be believing in Yeshua being GOD Almighty.
Does this verse of Scripture DENY the Deity of Yeshua / Jesus
Posted : 18 Feb, 2012 08:09 AM
George the word speaks of itself, there is no new revelation.
There is only one throne.
The question is the same to all Do you believe?
The Holy Spirit reveals to all that man does today what man did 1,000 years ago, 2,000 yrs ago, etc.
Man will follow God
Man will follow man, following men influenced by the God of this world.
The same Spirit of Truth I received in 1985 is the same one today, he is the same one of Acts 2:4 as all spoke in tongues as he gave them the utterance.
Does this verse of Scripture DENY the Deity of Yeshua / Jesus
Posted : 18 Feb, 2012 09:17 AM
George:
I'm glad you checked the Greek, bro. I love it when someone searches the Word of God to seek Him in all of His glory with what ever He gives us.
Now, to be honest with you, that verse in no way denies, or affirms Jesus' deity because of the way it is written in the Greek. The honest truth is that the "theological IDEA" has been super imposed on this verse and has been the highlight of every "theological" dispute in and out of the faith.
As I said, to the Dispensational Christian this poses a problem because of their "theological view" as far as eschatology goes. If they see that Mark 13, Matthew 24, and Luke 21 are NOT speaking of the 2nd Temple and Jerusalem being destroyed by the Romans as Daniel prophesied after the Messiah's coming to solidify God's Word, and fully anoint the most Holy place, and THEN speaking of the Son's Second manifestation of the flesh at the Last Day, they have to try to explain, define, and reconcile the "relationship" between the Son and the Father as far as "deity" goes and what type of "deity" the Son is now.
Do you understand what I'm trying to get at?
In essence, when this verse is read without any theological "view" it says exactly what it says. Does it change Jesus' deity in any way? No, it doesn't. It merely is explaining that the physical body (Jesus) does not know when the mind(the Father) is deciding to make the physical body move.
See, if you actually apply the Godhead's Eternal co-equal, co-communing, co-dependent nature to this verse then you are digging yourself into a theological hole and have trouble to explain how they are related as far as being connected WITHIN the Godhead in light of the Son's PHYSICAL TEMPORAL ROLE on Earth as opposed to His omniscience is concerned.
What Jesus is saying here is that when the coming of the Last Day where He will raise ALL the dead (in Christ and non-believers) to judge the world from a TEMPORAL aspect as far as carrying it out in the fulfillment of time just as His birth, life, and death on the cross was (temporal). Did the whole birth of the Messiah show that he wasn't there in the beginning and was merely a created thing because of His temporal role? No. Of course not. It was just as the Scriptures say it was that it was . It was a divine moment that was conceived in eternity, spoken of , and acted out upon in its proper time(Luke 22:37; 1 Tim. 2:5-6).
Does that make sense?
As far as the "cults" using this verse goes, my brother, believe me I KNOW. I WAS a Jehovah's Witness at one time and WE used to use this verse a lot. As a matter of fact, Muslims use this very verse along with a few others when taken in context with Jesus' TEMPORAL ministry. People get Jesus' Earthly role confused with His continuous actively functioning role within the Godhead and try to run with it. Even the most devout Christians fail at that. Remember the Godhead topic I made a while ago asking if there were any verses showing that Jesus wasn't co-equal within the Godhead before his Earthly ministry? What happened? ET, came up with using the very TEMPORAL verses to show His subordinancy out of sheer misconception of what I had originally asked. She wasn't wrong about His Earthly temporal obedience but as far as Jesus being co-equal with God the Father and God the Spirit in the Eternal Godhead she was.
As far as the wording on worthship or worship goes, we both know that they mean the same thing as far as Scripture and the word play is just another expression of our individual dialect within the same language, bro. No big difference there.
As for PJ, brother. Ignore him. You know by now that all he can do is nothing but accuse the brethren and try to confuse, refuse, contradict, and restrict the Spiritual growth of a fellow brother and sister. The less attention you give him the better. Leave him be, bro. I have a kid and one thing I learned is that you don't give him attention when he behaved badly because he will constantly act on it and think that it is the normal accepted behavior. Rebuke him when he makes a major error but when it is something childish as it usually is just pat him on the head, smile and tell him you love him. Because that is essentially what he is seeking except he is looking to get it in an unhealthy way.
