Author	Thread: The simple truth
dljrn04 View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 30 Apr, 2012 02:31 AM What is it that Arminians find so offensive in the doctrines of election, perseverance of the saints, assurance of salvation, etc.? Is it offensive that they "do not have a choice" that their supposed "free will" is enslaved by sin, but only because of God's grace and sovereignty they are made able to willingly serve God? Is it offensive that they are not the author, maintainer, finisher of their salvation by virtue of their fickle free will? Is it offensive to think that we are to depend on God for everything, even for the strength to abide in Him? Is it offensive to think that someone was never truly a convert if they do not bear the fruit of an unrepentant heart? Is it offensive to think that God alone has the power to save, maintain, and finish our salvation? I am confused as to what is so offensive! Is it offensive that we are all condemned to hell before Christ saves us, and that only God's sovereign grace saves some and not ALL? When I was an Arminian, I was offended when I heard that I did not have a free will, but when I realized that I was never truly free (but spiritually DEAD in the sight of God), it was then I fully understood grace all the more!...by Xavier Rivera Total Depravity = What Sin did to us Unconditional Election = What the Father did for us Limited Atonement = What the Son did for us Irresistible Grace = What the Spirit did for us Perseverance of the saints = The Glorious Consequence: We are more than conquerors!!! Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 30 Apr, 2012 01:23 PM View Profile History The simple truth Posted : 30 Apr, 2012 12:59 PM The reason this conversation continues is because its important!If you read the whole bible,you will understand that God created the universe and everything in it for HIS GLORY....when man takes cedit for any part of his salvation he robs God of that glory and quite possibly is not saved in the first place......What do you want to talk about....if there will be dogs in heaven ....geeeesh.....:nahnah: Amen Steve. I almost did a pj except for the amen part........:bouncy: Post Reply
View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 30 Apr, 2012 02:11 PM lol :peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 30 Apr, 2012 05:50 PM I don't agree that Arminians serve self. I believe they are misguided in their view of salvation. My parents are Arminian and serve God. Let us remember we are saved by faith in Christ, not a belief system. Post Reply
NRSV1953 View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 1 May, 2012 06:02 AM I did not mean to imply that this "conversation" is not important. Personally, I would get more out of it if the parties involved were more respectful of each other. Lots of folk read these Forum posts but never join in. In part, this may be due to the vitriolic nature of these arguments. While admonishment is important, so is love and respect for each other as we are all Christ's children. Post Reply
View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 1 May, 2012 07:35 AM I have likely been too hostile at times. I believe it stems from repeatedly trying to engage someone who shows not willingness to participate in biblical discussion...which is what the forum is for. Post Reply
View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 1 May, 2012 01:01 PM Friend, anyone who knows the Gospel of Grace cannot help but express the true Gospel. Anyone who is aware of their salvation cannot possibly express belief in salvation by their own hands. Further, Scripture teaches no head heart dichotomy - "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart...(Mt 15:18)" - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:9-10)" "You really shouldn't use the term Arminian as that's too broad of a generalization. Instead you should use terminology such as 'those who have faith in their faith instead of Christ alone.'" But isn't this what Arminianism is? When I use the term Arminian, I mean exactly what you think it is. Anyone who claims to be an Arminian is a person who has "faith in their faith." "I fail to see the purpose of this article. It's not in any way edifying. Yes, it's true that all Arminians are probably lost but it's not our job to go around judging people's hearts and condemning them to hell." First, the purpose of this article is twofold. One, I hope that Arminians that have not been revealed their sin of self-righteousness read this and are brought to repentance. Second, I hope that those who are resting in Christ Alone are brought to a further understanding of the false gospel through this article. I hope to kindle an evangelistic zeal for the lost and dying world of Arminianism around us. Further, how is it that a presentation of truth is not edifying? It may not be edifying to you at this moment, but God can certainly take truth and apply it at Will to some of His elect as He desires. Also, I do not think it's our job to go around condemning people to hell because of their belief in the false gospel. However, if we love these people, we will refuse to give them any assurance of their salvation. I don't think there is anything wrong with taking an Arminian friend aside and telling them in love that we do not think they are saved because they are not resting in Christ's work ALONE. If we have the courage to do this, then we should do so in the hopes that God will grant them repentance and faith through the presentation of the true Gospel. We should never run around in an arrogant attitude condemning people to hell. When rejecting our Arminian associates, we must always present the Gospel of Grace and Truth and depend on the Holy Spirit to call His elect into fellowship. "If you were to take what Arminians say is the gospel, I agree that this evidences that they are lost. However, men such as Spurgeon and other great reformers of the past counted Arminians as brethren. Therefore, we should do the same." We must be very careful to avoid the cult of the personality. Spurgeon spoke a lot of true things, but he also taught a lot of false doctrine. These men were fallible; and we must avoid erecting protestant popes at all costs. Our rule for thought and practice comes from the Scriptures alone and not from church tradition. "Everything in this article is true, but we must keep these things to ourselves because we will turn arminians away with the message that they are lost." So you are saying we should sit idly on our hands and watch these dear friends of ours die in their sins? How can you feel comfortable knowing the truth but refusing to share it? Yes we will turn many arminians away with this message, but that's the nature of the Gospel. But what you are failing to realize is it's the truth that God will use to call His elect. We must always be dilligent to speak the whole counsel of God to all people. Failure to do so is willful disobedience to God's Word. "Some people are just ignorant of the truth concerning God's sovereignty. Do we really want to push these people away?" This ignorance of the true Gospel is precisely why they are lost. If they were truly converted, they wouldn't be ignorant of the truth. Now, while I believe it's possible for an immature believer to be confused on some terminology, (that is they may not be able to express their thoughts concerning salvation well), they will not express belief in a false gospel of salvation conditioned upon faith. Further, if these ignorant people are truly believers as you say they are, then when presented with these facts of Christ's Sovereign Grace they will not be pushed away but instead will rejoice and love the truth as it's delivered. "Some new believers reading this will really be shocked and shaken when they read this. This article appears to be cruel and unloving because you're not taken these brethren of ours into account." Anyone who loves the Gospel does so in "fear and trembling" (Phil 2:12). If you were to think what you were saved from (hell), you too would be shaken. Further, a sobering view of the world is necessary if we are to be moved to adoring worship and evangelism. We must take our blinders off to the massive reprobation that surrounds us in this world. You are right that this will shock and shaken up some of our newly converted brethren, but this will be good for them and God will preserve them through this ordeal. They may even be brought to a further joy in the Lord that bought them! "How can you say all Arminians are lost when some of the greatest works in Christian literature have been authored from Arminians?" Mt 7:22-23, (KJV), Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Our standing in Christ is not based on anything we do. It is true that God has used Arminians to produce some things of benefit to His elect, but that in no way means these men were Christians. Just because men like John Wesley penned some great hymns does not mean he was a Christian. Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 1 May, 2012 01:29 PM Very well said Manofgod. You are a humble man. We are to call a spade a spade, and when people make a mockery out of God, we are to show them their sin in love. That is one of the biggest flaws with online sites you can see no emotion except emotion icons. Most times as i am typing it is with tears rolling down my face for those who are lost and making a mockery of God and his holy word. God is merciful, and at the same time he is just. He will not be mocked. Post Reply
View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 1 May, 2012 03:07 PM I think we are in dangerous territory when we say that someone isn't saved simply because they are Arminian. We believe that God's grace saves, not intellectual ascent to certain truths. http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/qna/arminians.html http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/neo_gnostic.html Post Reply
View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 1 May, 2012 05:00 PM you know.....I go back an forth on that Ryan.If you knew for sure someone wasnt saved the most loving thing you could do would be to try and shine the light of truth on them....if someones drowning the most love you could show them would be to throw a life preserver....people in our soceity sometimes equate niceness and politeness with love or a loving attitude.Well you could nice and polite someone straight into eternal hell if youre afraid to speak the truth.The whole of salvation is knowing there is NOTHING in you that is worthy of saving it is a undeserved free gift.If you had some special accepting powers that your neighbor didnt have.....well....thats SOMETHING....the bible says there is NOTHING DESERVING IN MAN including any kind of special accepting powers......God said Jacob I loved and Easau i hated before they were born and could do anything wrong.I will read those links on monergism,...but R.C sproul was recently asked if arminians were saved and he said well.....barely.....lol In Christ Steve Post Reply
View Profile History	The simple truth Posted : 1 May, 2012 05:15 PM Oh I agree with still preaching truth :) Post Reply

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