" We are not to know what was meant by what was said, as we are to believe the word of God and then comes the knowing."
Well if you mean that you should believe that every word of God is true even before we understand every word of God, then I agree. However you just took the long route to saying that knowing what something means is important. That has been my point so I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. No one in their right mind would say that it's not important to know what the scriptures mean. Although in the past you have hinted that that is your belief. You are forgetting an important thing? Now is saving faith more important than head knowledge? Yes of course. However, acting as if you are accomplished and no longer need to study simply because you believe is foolish and I submit that you would not be able to back up that view with scripture. No knowing what you believe is not something to be celebrated.
" I have never disagreed with that, for there is no faith without believing."
You certainly have disagreed with my interpretation of John 3:16. You read "whosoever" and then say, "Whosoever can believe". That's not what the verse says.
" The deception is in some that proclaim that man can not believe."
If you can back this with other scriptures then be my guest. As I have pointed out, you cannot show this by using John 3:16
" All that are on the earth have the ability to believe."
Fine, prove it
" I would also add that all desire evil is another manipulation of scripture."
Every time you say that something is a manipulation of scripture I post the scripture proving you otherwise. You then ignore that part of my post. I find that interesting. If you cannot defend your beliefs with scripture then you should question the validity of your beliefs.
" No believer accepts the pride in the statement when they believed they saved them self, that is just another smoke screen."
It's not a smoke screen. You say that man must do something to be saved. That makes salvation something that man accomplished and something that he can boast about.
" Believing is never a work of God it is man's responsibility."
Fine :) Again prove that with scripture. How does man make himself believe?
" No I do not reject the word of God, I reject the manipulation of reformation theology to alter the truth of God's word."
I think it would benefit you for a moment to throw out the idea that you are tackling an issue of reformed vs not reformed. It would be much more beneficial if we just looked at what scriptures teach.
" I do not think as you say this truth, that is what you do."
Sure...the problem with this line of thinking is that I show that you actually do this whereas you only say that I do and are never able to show it.
" I believe my father is love just as he is stated, and he love is not a respecter of person's."
Neither is mine. He doesn't save people based on some inherent worth found in them.
" You can sum this last response very clearly Ryan you deny any biblical principles with this bold, arrogant, bold lie you have made in this last statement, and glorifying satan with it. "
Bold lie? Do you not defend the televangelists on TBN when anything is ever said against them? Keep in mind that I can dig up old posts. They are where you get your theology from.
HOH wrote: "That makes salvation something that man accomplished and something that he can boast about. "
Example:
Someone asks you how you got saved....You respond..."I believed"
Someone asks me....I respond...."God saved me"
You give credit to yourself. I give credit to God."
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Me:
I respond that I believe that when Christ died on the cross for my sins He paid my death penalty, and I asked Him to forgive me of my sins (1 John 1:9), I called on His name and asked Him to save me as I cannot save myself.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
I followed what His Word told me to do to be saved. I had to know that I was a sinner, I had to understand that there is a punishment for my sins, I had to understand that Christ died on the cross to lay for my sins, and I had to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ just like Paul told the jailer.
Because I did what God said I had to do to be saved by Him, I know that He saved me from Eternal separation from Him.
How do you know that you are saved? What did God do to save you?
CHRISTIANITY is Christ BRINGING US TO GOD on the basis of what He did for us on the cross.
1 Peter 3:18�For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Salvation is man trusting the good work which the Lord Jesus did on the cross Romans 3:22�Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:�
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;�
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:�
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;�
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Hebrews 11:6--"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him"
It is about me and my relationship with my Heavenly Father...
I sinned. �I am accountable for my sin.
I deserved punishment. �
Either I pay for my sins or I understand�that Christ's death on the cross was to pay my death penalty.
I had to believe in my heart and confess with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. �No one else could do it for me...not my parents, my teachers, my brothers/sisters, pastor, etc...I had to be the one to understand and accept the plan God laid out for all who will believe.
Based on my confession to God, He imputed my death sentence. �He saved me from the punishment of Hell.
I can see that it must take a higher level of understanding...although children can understand it because they are not clouded by the doctrine of men that make it complicated.
Again, I ask you how do you know that you are saved? �How do you know that you are 'elected'?
A theme throughout the Bible is the "I" when it comes to dealing with a relationship with God.
Psalm 51
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness:�according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity,�and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions:�and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned,�and done this evil in thy sight:�that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest,�and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;�and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts:�and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean:�wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness;�that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins,�and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God;�and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence;�and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation;�and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways;�and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation:�and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips;�and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it:�thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit:�a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion:�build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering:�then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
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13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee
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And David knew that he could teach others so that they could be converted.
