Thread: Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
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Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 11:14 AM
"FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE *KINGDOM* OF GOD!!"
Hebrews 12:26-28: God says, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens. The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore, since we are receiving a *KINGDOM* that can not be shaken let us be thankful...for our God is a consuming fire!
2 Peter 3:10-13: But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will DISAPPEAR with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and *EVERYTHING* in it will be burned up {NIV}. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you wait eagerly for the Day of God to come. {NIV} That Day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with His promise **WE** {Excluding the Preterists and the RC church} are looking forward to a New heavens and a New Earth, the home of righteousness.
I Corinthians 15:50--51: I declare to you brothers, that flesh and blood CANNOT INHERIT the *KINGDOM OF GOD*... Listen I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."
John 18:36: Jesus says, "My *KINGDOM* is not of this world....But now, my Kingdom is from another place!!"
Matthew 25:31-34: Jesus says, "When the Son of Man comes in His glory , and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people on from another..He will put the sheep on the right and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, "Come you who are blessed of My Father, take your inheritance, the *KINGDOM* prepared for you!!"
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 07:36 PM
Dr Kenneth Gentry is a Preterist like the Roman Catholics who believe everything in Matthew 24,25 Luke 21 and Mark 13 and Revelation has already been fulfilled. Which is of course ridiculous and possibly has committed an unpardonable sin according to Revelation 22:18,19 above.
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 07:38 PM
GK Beale, Dr. Francis Nigel Lee, Dr. Vern Poythress -- there are three more.........
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 07:47 PM
Let me know when you have read all of the materials and listened to all of the sermons on Revelation from those six and I will give you six more. I will also look forward to your thorough point by point refutation of each.
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 08:01 PM
WE ARE ALL EAGERLY WAITING FOR OUR ETERNAL RENDEZVOUS WITH JESUS!
�
I Peter 1:13: �Therefore, prepare your minds for ACTION, and set your hope *FULLY* on the grace to be given YOU when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED*. I Cor 1:7: �YOU do not lack any spiritual gift as YOU eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be *REVEALED*.�
Now the pre-tribbers claim that this glorious *REVEALING or *REVELATION* of Jesus will be *CONCEALED* BEFORE the beginning of the Great Tribulation.� However, every other time the Word *REVEALED* {Greek-Apocalipsis} is used related to resurrection events it refers to the glorious REVEALING of Jesus on the *LAST DAY* of the Great Tribulation {See 2 Thess 1:7-10 & Luke 17:26-31}. And *CONCEALED* is the exact opposite of *REVEALED* and *APPEARED* according to every dictionary!�
Titus 2:13: �*WE* wait for the *BLESSED HOPE*�the glorious *APPEARING* of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. �Hebrews 9:28 �Jesus will *APPEAR* a 2nd time {And not a 3rd TIME!} to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!��
Colossians 1:2; 3:4: �To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ.... When Christ, who is your life **APPEARS**, then you also will **APPEAR** with Him in glory.� I John 3:2,3: �When Jesus *APPEARS*, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. Everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure!!�
Matthew 24:29,30: Jesus says, �IMMEDIATELY AFTER the distress of those days {The Great Tribulation} the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will *APPEAR in the sky and the nations will *SEE* the Son of Man COMING on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory!!�
I John 2:28: �Dear children, continue in Him, so that when He *APPEARS* WE may be confident and unashamed before Him at His COMING!� {See 2 Thess 1:7-10; I Tim 6:14; Heb 9:28 & Col 3:4}�
2 Tim 4:8: Paul said, There is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on THAT DAY�and not only to me, but to *ALL who have longed for His *APPEARING*!!� I Peter 5:4: �When the Chief Shepherd **APPEARS**, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away!�
2 Thess 1:1,6-10:� �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well.� This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�.� He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.� They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!�
A meeting at an appointed place and time is called a RENDEZVOUS. We have a RENDEZVOUS with eternity at the glorious *APPEARING and *REVEALING of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ *IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation.
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 08:05 PM
Could you point me to your published findings on the book of Revelation? I would like to purchase a copy and compare your exegesis against other published scholars and theologians. Thank you in advance.
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 08:14 PM
THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, �All authority in heaven and on *EARTH has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!�
THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE AGE!
Matthew 13:39-43: Jesus says, �The Harvest is the *END OF THE AGE and the harvesters are *ANGELS*. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the *END OF THE AGE*. The Son of Man will send out His *ANGELS*, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. *THEN the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father!�
I Corinthians 15:22-24: �For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits, then when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the **END** will come, when He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.� And so when Jesus comes again at the *END OF THE AGE* He will hand over the Kingdom to God the Father!
Mark 13:10 Jesus says, �The *AGE TO COME* is Eternal Life!�I Timothy 6:19: In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the *COMING AGE*, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life!�
THE DISCIPLES ASKED JESUS, �WHAT WILL BE THE SIGN OF YOUR COMING AND THE END OF THE AGE??�
Is it a pre-trib rapture or the persecution and testing of God's saints and a great falling away at the beginning of the Great Tribulation??
� Matthew 24:3,9-13:� The disciples asked Jesus, �What will be the sign of your Coming and the *END OF THE AGE*?? Jesus answered�.. {During the 1260-dayGreat Tribulation} �Then *YOU* will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and *YOU will be hated by all nations because of Me.� At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of *MOST* will grow cold,{THE GREAT APOSTASY} but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the *END will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to *ALL NATIONS*, and then the *END will come!�
And then we find just before the beginning of the 1260-day Great tribulation that there will be saints saved by the blood of Jesus from *EVERY Tribe, Language and Nation:
Revelation 5:9: �You {Jesus} are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from *EVERY Tribe, Language, People and Nation!�
Just after the coming of the 4 Horsemen in Revelation 6:1-8 and just after the start of the 1260-day Great tribulation; we see this scene in Heaven:
Rev 6:9-11: When He {Jesus) opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain {MARTYRS} because of the Word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, �How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until You judge the inhabitanrts of the earth and avenge our blood?� Then each of them was given a *WHITE ROBE*, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed {Martyrs just like Jesus} as they had been was completed!
Rev 8:9, 13,14: After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count from **EVERY** nation, tribe and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing WHITE ROBES......Then one of the {24- See Rev 4:4,10} elders asked me, �These in WHITE ROBES�who are they and where do they come from?�...And he said, �These are they who come out of the Great Tribulatoion {Tribulation MARTYRS}; they have washed their ROBES and made them WHITE in the blood of the Lamb. At present the God's Word has only been translated into about 2,000 of the 6,000 languages in the world and faith comes by hearing and reading the Word of God! And so this prophecy in Matthew 24:13 above which must take place *BEFORE* the Harvest and 2nd Coming of Jesus will only be fulfilled *DURING the Great Tribulation!
The Heavenly rewards for the faithful and courageous *MARTYRS* is one of the most important central themes in the book of Revelation. For they will reign with Jesus in Heaven and according to Revelation 7:14-17: They are before the Throne of God and God will spread His tent over them before the Second Coming of Jesus. They will receive WHITE ROBES washed in the blood of the Lamb. Never again will they hunger or thirst and God Himself will wipe every tear from their eyes. Jesus will be their Shepherd and will lead them to springs of Living Water.
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 08:20 PM
WILL THE RESURRECTION OF THE CHURCH SAINTS OCCUR ON THE SAME LAST DAY AS THE RESURRECTION OF THE LOST??
John 6:40� Jesus says, �For my Father�s will is that EVERYONE who looks to the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the *LAST DAY*!��
John 6:44: Jesus says, �No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the *LAST DAY!�
Pre-tribbers believe that the *LAST DAY* mentioned 6 times in John 6:39,40,44,54;11:24,12:48 refers to a CONCEALED RESURRECTION 7 years *BEFORE THE LAST DAY*.� However, John 12:48 shows that the lost will also be condemned on that same *LAST DAY*!�
*WHEN WILL THE LOST BE JUDGED AND SENT TO HELL*?
John 12:48: Jesus says, �There is a Judge for the one who rejects Me and does not accept My words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the *LAST DAY*!!�
�
2 Thess 1:1,6-10:� �To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians�God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well.� This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire�.� He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.� They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!� {THE LAST DAY-See Rev 20:11-15}
Matt 25:31-34,41:� Jesus says, �*WHEN* the Son of Man comes in His glory,{On the Last Day} and all the angels with Him {See Matt 24:29-31}, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory.� All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another��He will put His sheep on His right and the goats on the left. *THEN the King {Jesus} will say to those on His right, �Come you who are blessed by My Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world... *THEN He will say to those on His left, �Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire!��
�
John 5:28,29:� Jesus says, �Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming {The Last Day} when *ALL* {Both OT & NT Saints} who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out�those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.��
Daniel 12:1b,2,7b:� �There will be a time of distress {The Great Tribulation} such as not happened from the beginning of nations until then.� But at that time {The Last Day} your people--*EVERYONE* whose name is found written in the Book {Both OT & NT Saints}�will be delivered.� Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt�It will be for a time. times and half a time {1260 days-Rev 12:6,14, or 42� {30-day} months-Rev 13:5-{Not 7 years} *ALL* these things will be *COMPLETED.��
The pre-tribbers wrongly believe that the OT saints will receive their eternal perfect heavenly bodies 7 years AFTER the Church saints. However, in Hebrews 11:39,40 we read �These {OT super saints mentioned in Heb 11:4-38} were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that ONLY TOGETHER WITH US {NT Saints} would they {OT Saints} be made perfect!�
Actually there are many similarities between Revelation 20:11-15 and the Judgment of **ALL** the lost in Matthew 25:31-46 on the Day that Jesus comes again:
Matthew 25:31-34,41,46: �**WHEN** the Son of Man {The Lamb} comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on **HIS THRONE** in Heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him and He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.�
�*THEN* the King will say to those on the right, �Come you who are blessed by My Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.� {The New Jerusalem with its New Heaven and New Earth�See Rev 21:1-5 & 2 Peter 3:10-13}
�**THEN* He will say to those on His left, �Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.� ....�*THEN* they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.�
Matthew 13:40-43: Jesus says, �As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it wil be at the END OF THE AGE. The Son of man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the firey furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. **THEN the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Posted : 11 Sep, 2013 08:31 PM
How about IWA give some of his theological understanding of Revelations then...I'd really like that...wouldn't you Richard ???...XO
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
Revelation 21:1-5: I saw a New heaven and a New Earth, for the {present} first heaven and first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God..... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them.... I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!"
