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For the law
Posted : 2 Dec, 2013 05:13 AM

Hebrews 10 (NKJV)



Animal Sacrifices Insufficient



10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.



Christ�s Death Fulfills God�s Will



5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:



�Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,

But a body You have prepared for Me.

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin

You had no pleasure.

7 Then I said, �Behold, I have come�

In the volume of the book it is written of Me�

To do Your will, O God.��[a]



8 Previously saying, �Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them� (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, �Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.�[b] He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



Christ�s Death Perfects the Sanctified



11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.



15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,



16 �This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,�[c] 17 then He adds, �Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.�[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.



Hold Fast Your Confession



19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.



The Just Live by Faith



26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses� law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, �Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,�[e] says the Lord.[f] And again, �The Lord will judge His people.�[g] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me[h] in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.[i] 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:



37 �For yet a little while, And He[j] who is coming will come and will not tarry. 38 Now the[k] just shall live by faith;

But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.�[l]



39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.



:applause:...:bouncy:...:yay:....





Footnotes:

a.Hebrews 10:7 Psalm 40:6�8

b.Hebrews 10:9 NU-Text and M-Text omit O God.

c.Hebrews 10:16 Jeremiah 31:33

d.Hebrews 10:17 Jeremiah 31:34

e.Hebrews 10:30 Deuteronomy 32:35

f.Hebrews 10:30 NU-Text omits says the Lord.

g.Hebrews 10:30 Deuteronomy 32:36

h.Hebrews 10:34 NU-Text reads the prisoners instead of me in my chains.

i.Hebrews 10:34 NU-Text omits in heaven.

j.Hebrews 10:37 Or that which

k.Hebrews 10:38 NU-Text reads My just one.

l.Hebrews 10:38 Habakkuk 2:3, 4



X <>< O

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teach_ib

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Posted : 4 Dec, 2013 09:39 PM

Yes, I have seen the healing and had reports of healings in these churches that have laid hands on, prayed for, anointed those with illnesses. �People with documented rumors that don't show on further examination. �Yes, God still performs miracles.

I have seen the miraculous change of people who were deep in sins and addictions become free of these addictions in the churches I have attended. �

*****

Hebrews 10:25�Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

******

There is more to church than just seeing miracles...church brings like minded people together to provide encouragement to each other. �In a world of sinners, having a refuge among Christians a few times a week provides strength to go back into the workplace or neighborhoods or schools.

If we're just looking for the miracles at church or an assembly, we miss out on the miracles that occur every day.

From Merriam-Webster: disdain -�a feeling of contempt for someone or something regarded as unworthy or inferior : �scorn

*****

Again, none of the churches I have been a part of regard God's laws as inferior or unworthy...in fact, without the law, none of us would know that we are sinners.

*****

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

******

I choose grace and truth...

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Posted : 4 Dec, 2013 11:13 PM

@teach_ib



Word of mouth never changes and good news spreads real fast.



The fact is if what you are saying is true, and if any of the churches you say are healing the sick could be verified as true you could not stop the good news from spreading even if you wanted to............ LOL especially is the age of obamacare



That is the way it was in biblical days and the same good news of terminally ill people being healed today s going to cause lines so long outside your church the traffic jams alone would make the news.



You have not provided any links and no offers for verification............ unfortunately your claims are moot



However, should the time come with some sort of verifiable evidence being made available I am all ears.

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teach_ib

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Posted : 5 Dec, 2013 04:45 AM

I won't provide links because you would be attending for the wrong reason. I won't make a spectacle of these churches.

The good news was spread...healing is not the only reason or sign for churches. The spiritual healing through the preaching of the Word is most important.

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Posted : 5 Dec, 2013 05:33 AM

"I won't provide links because you would be attending for the wrong reason."



You are avoiding the point, but first and for the record you are nowhere near qualified to judge me ........ and that you can take to the bank!



Anyway:



If there was church anywhere in the continental US where the terminal ill were being healed from their diseases you could not keep it secret even if you wanted to



The fact that persons may have temporary changes in long term lifestyles after their initial conversion only to slip back to the same lifestyle is well known by judges, and why they never pay any attention to someone pleading for mercy because �they found Jesus�. This is because in 9 times out of 10 (saying it kindly) given time and circumstances there will be no difference in the person from how they were before their conversion.



However, we are not talking about temporary changes from people having an initial conversion as in coming to Christ, but instead are speaking of Christians in a church not needing to have medical insurance or doctors because they attend church worshipping in spirit and in truth being witnessed by God who is happy to perform miracles within this church and heal people of thir diseases.



I am not finding fault with or comparing Christians taking advantage of over-the-counter medicines or homeopathic remedies practiced in many households, but am speaking of a person who has come down with a disease (that the final result of will be death if otherwise left unchecked as in no medical help such as chemo, surgery etc.) unless God intervenes the person will die.



Anyway you cut it sister it is just not happening in this country.



On the other hand, it is known to happen in other countries where NEW ministries are just starting. However, given time and allow the home church back here and in the good old USA who is supporting the outreach mission in a foreign country to show up and start teaching them how to be good sanctified Christians, the miracles come to a rapid stop.



I have a friend in the Anglican church associated with ministries in foreign countries where they have translated the Bible into the languages spoken by the ingenious persons allowing them for the 1st time to read the word of God in their own spoken language. Praise the Lord and they're doing a good work that for awhile was being witnessed by miracles.



However when they send out a bishop from their church in the US to teach church doctrine to the "mission priest' who prior to being taught by a visiting bishop was going around the countryside healing persons left and right the miracles stopped happening . In this case the same "priest" without any training who was witnessing God working miracles through him curing people of diseases everywhere, after he was schooled by "a church elder" would no longer witnes miracles.



Hopefully the conclusion is obvious to you that the problem is the teachings being done by the elders of the church is the cause for why churches in this country are not witnessing miracles



As far you tell me I would be attending any church for the wrong reason, you are way out of line sister!



Doug

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Posted : 6 Dec, 2013 06:14 PM

Has the thought ever crossed anyones mind that miracle's happen in Churchs all the time...we as humans are so caught up in self and seeking miracles that we most often miss them...A Miracle happens when a person wakes up in the morning on Sunday...not wanting to get out of bed let alone attend Church service...none the less they get them selves ready and off they go...they enter the Church and see the people that they have grown to know and love...Its a Miracle they showed up to...Then they see a new face...and go to them...reaching out a hand in greeting...Welcome...they have come for what ever reason they may voice...however...the real reason is because they have been called by Father...to Worship and Fellowship... :0)...XO

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teach_ib

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Posted : 6 Dec, 2013 09:19 PM

Yep...there are miracles all around us...we may not even realize the miracles that occur because of our fervent prayers.

Lots of reports from missionaries who were miraculously saved in perilous situations to find out someone back home was led to pray for them...a sudden burden on their hearts for them. When someone's name comes to mind in an unusual time (like sitting in a meeting at work...I send a prayer up...I don't have to know the need because God already does).

The disciples didn't heal everyone they saw...Jesus healed 10 lepers...but only the one who returned to thank Him was made whole (I believe the limbs, ears, nose that may have fallen off were restored).

I think it's a miracle when I drive 20 miles to church and go through 12-15 lights and they are all green. I am thankful for even a few green lights along the way...and then I see an accident and become even more thankful for the red lights or delays.

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teach_ib

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Posted : 6 Dec, 2013 09:24 PM

The family at my church whose daughter was born 4 months premature and is now almost 4 years old would say that she is a miracle...while they still grieve the death of her twin brother that only survived a few hours.

The same prayers went up for him...sometimes God's answer is no or the healing was done when the individual transitioned to heaven like my sister.

God's ways are not our ways...and some need signs to be convinced of the reality of God.

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Posted : 7 Dec, 2013 04:16 AM

Do you compare apples and oranges when you go grocery shopping? Then why do it with God's word?



See if this verse resonates with either one of you?



John 3:2

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: FOR NO MAN CAN DO THESE MIRACLES THAT THOU DOEST, EXCEPT GOD BE WITH HIM



The fact is ladies the Jews knew Jesus was from God because of the miracles Jesus was doing. After all, the reason why the rest of the world knew that the Jews were God's chosen people was because of all the miracles that God did on behalf of the Jews.



Amen? I think so!



Paul understood this very well,



Acts 2:22

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN APPROVED OF GOD AMONG YOU BY MIRACLES AND WONDERS AND SIGNS, WHICH GOD DID BY HIM IN THE MIDST OF YOU, AS YE YOUSELVES ALSO KNOW



Signs and wonders are in the eyes of the world what identifies the presence of God and His blessings amongst His chosen. This is the way it has always been amongst God's chosen, and if the miracles or not there is because something is missing from the gathering of God's chosen.



The Jews only saw miracles happening for them when either they were in obedience, or God had raised someone up to lead them back onto the path where they were to supposed to be. This is the way it was through Moses , the good prophets and kings as well as the apostles.



Speaking of prayer;



Did not God said that he heard cries of the Jews when they were in Egypt being abused by their Egyptian overlords? Yes he did, but He did not do anything about it until there was a man prepared by Him and for Him to fulfill the purpose of leading His people to where He wanted them to get to. Same thing with the church sisters!



When the Pentecost movement was introduced back at the turn of the 20th century did God not introduce it with signs and wonders witnessed by many? Yes he did and it's pretty well documented. However, walk into any Pentecost church today; do you see people being healed or are they going to their doctors and hospitals hoping for the best?



God does not change, (other than extending mercy in place of judgment) and if His approval seen by the anointing on the person is not being seen in your assemblies, the answer is quite plain as to why not.



You just have to be able to read the handwriting on the wall because sin (churches teaching false doctrine are teaching sin) causes God to depart.



Your faith is not just who you believe im but what you believe about Him. If you believe the truth about Him, He will sanctify you allowing you and others with you to be followed with signs and wonders. This is the promise Jesus made before He left.



If you don't want to believe me fine, but I suggest you believe Him



Blessings,



Doug

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dmaxwel1

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Posted : 7 Dec, 2013 06:47 AM

Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.



Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:



Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.





One of the implications of this verse may not be clear to all readers, but it is germane to this discussion.



God is telling us to remember because we have once again departed from his way.



The last verse suggests that the earth is in disunity, and if Elijah is unsuccessful God will curse the earth. This disunity is because of the lack of understanding and appreciation of God's law given to his people in Horeb. Not the basic understanding as been indicated in the term dos and don'ts, but the spiritual had deeper meanings that have universal application and are timeless.



I have found that many churches actually despise the law because they misapply Paul's writings.

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Posted : 7 Dec, 2013 08:24 AM

Do you compare apples and oranges when you go grocery shopping? Then why do it with God's word?

***I don�t understand this comment!!! Why would anyone want to compare this way ??..And I do not believe the folks here do...We are to search the Scriptures and Scripture interprets Scripture�



John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: FOR NO MAN CAN DO THESE MIRACLES THAT THOU DOEST, EXCEPT GOD BE WITH HIM

*** The Pharisee Nicodemus is one Jew that BELIEVED on Jesus as the Messiah�the Others did not�



The fact is ladies the Jews knew Jesus was from God because of the miracles Jesus was doing. After all, the reason why the rest of the world knew that the Jews were God's chosen people was because of all the miracles that God did on behalf of the Jews.

*** Ummm�No they didn�t�The Jews didn�t know�I disagree with this statement and this is why�



Mark 11:27-33 (KJV)

27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, [[[ there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders, ]]]

28 And say unto him, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?

29 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I will also ask of you one question, and answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things.

30 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.

31 And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then did ye not believe him?

32 But if we shall say, Of men; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed.

33 And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.

*** They didn�t Believe anything other than them selves�



Luke 22:67-71 (KJV)

[[[ 67 Art thou the Christ? tell us. ]]] And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:

68 And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.

69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

*** Where is it in the Scriptures that the Jews BELIEVED he Jesus is the Son of GOD???

71 And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.

*** They heard what they wanted hear�not the TRUTH�the Truth was standing right in Front of them and they were Blind to it�



*** As for the Miracles part�

John 4:46-54 (KJV)

46 So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. [[[ And there was a certain nobleman, ]]] whose son was sick at Capernaum.

47 When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death.

[[[ 48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe. ]]]

*** Many saw signs and wonders�the ones that Believed�were not all JEWS�many were Gentiles�

49 The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die.

50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.

51 And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.

52 Then enquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.

53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

54 This is again the second miracle that Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee.

*** This word Nobleman Hebrew basilikos means a leader of people and basileus lord of the land..a king..The Scripture does not say he is a �Jew��he could be Roman from Capernaum...



After the LORD Yashua is risen�He says�

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

*** So if I am understanding Doug correctly he does not believe that this happens in todays era�Well�I will give a Testimony here�beginning with�

I believe in Yahshua aka Jesus and everything he has said and commands us to do�

I was a new baby Christain�my sister-in-law was diagnosed with melanoma cancer in her arm�they took a few biopsies and said it doesn�t look good�then they took a big chunk and discussed her treatment options�I was not present with my family however I understood and was taught by the Holy Spirit of GOD to pray and believe with all my heart�(like the mountain being cast into the sea)�I prayed for her the very first �real� prayer for someone else in my new life�In that prayer�I said�the doctors will say we cant explain it�there is no cancer!!!�A MIRACLE followed those (lil me) that BELIEVE�not that God need to�He proved to me He is WHO He is�And no person Professed Christian or not can deny the Healing Power of GOD to me and tell me a lie when I have witnessed the Truth�and may times since�a person can believe what they want�however�I will continue to believe what I know that I know that I know�and it is JESUS�the WORD of God�



Blessings...xo

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