Thread: Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
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Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 19 Jan, 2014 06:05 AM
Hello everyone:
I have been to a few places called the 'church', one thing i hear being spoken about pretty often is this thing called 'tithing'.
I have searched the entire NEW COVENANT, and i cannot find the word 'tithe' or any reference to 'tithing'.
IF therefore 'tithing' cannot be found within the NEW COVENANT are believers required to be 'tithing'.
Where i have found 'tithing' is in the OLD COVENANT,which covenant has been FULFILLED in Messiah;since i happen to be in Yeshua,the 'tithe' has also been FULFILLED for me.
Since the 'tithe' has been fulfilled why do these so called pastors tell the people they need to be keeping the tithing thing, IS that not keeping the sheeple BOUND to the LAW,the LAW which Messiah has set EVERY person free from having to obey.
James says IF a person breaks one point of the LAW,he then breaks the WHOLE law.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
My question is this:
WHY do people continue to go back to the OLD COVENANT in order to JUSTIFY the things they want to believe,which cannot be found within the NEW COVENANT.
The NEW COVENANT is not the Old Covenant fulfilled (
Messiah Yeshua fuflilled/ or filled up the entire Old Covenant by His life,death and resurrection ),
The NEW COVENANT is a Covenant which had never existed before to man.This NEW COVENANT exists in the Blood of Messiah Yeshua.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the NEW COVENANT in my blood, which is shed for you.
Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 19 Jan, 2014 11:07 PM
In the Gospels the Jews as well as Jesus where under the Abrahamic Covenant, and they lived unto the The Blessing Of Abraham, do you suppose they where any part confused about tithing. The Blessing was and still is contingent upon obedience.
Tithing is not giving you can not give what is the lord's ( The Tithe ), giving always follows tithing.
Now Tell us what the new testament tells about the Abrahamic covenant?
Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 20 Jan, 2014 12:45 PM
Shalom,
Yes, Abba has not changed. Everyone who was chosen before time, whether then, or now, are under the Abrahamic covenant, for it was never done away with. Paul tells us in Galatians 3 that the rights of an heir are not predicated upon being a Jew, a Greek, a slave, a freeman, a male or female; it is predicated on the covenant with Abraham and his seed, or "'according to the promise":
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal 3:28-29
What promise is Paul referring to? Genesis 17:7:
"And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."
What does Abba mean by "and thy seed after thee in their generations"..?
There are to be 1,000 generations of the Seed of Abraham, and all are under the same covenant:
"He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations." Psalms 105:8
This is why Peter wrote, "You are a chosen generation":
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:" I Peter 2:9
Both Judaism and Christianity, are seriously flawed when it comes to doctrine. Both claim that Messiah, in some way, changed the Torah, but that is not possible, because the Messiah, whether you call Him Jesus or Yahushua, did not have a doctrine with which to destroy the law or the prophets, or to start another religion called "Christianity", with. Here we see where the Messiah states, that He has no doctrine of His own:
"Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." John 7:16
Jesus did not come to do away with the Torah, for the Torah is simply the Father dwelling in men, teaching and instructing them. That is what "towrah" means, "instruction".
Here we see the Father, when Philip asks Jesus, to show him the Father, speaking out of Jesus to Philip:
"Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." John 14:8-10
Notice that the Father says to Philip, "Have I been so long with you, Philip, and yet you do not know me?" The Father was not only in Messiah, He was dwelling in Philip, too. This is why Jesus would say, "he that hath seen me, hath seen the Father". In fact, if you will read verse 10, Jesus tells Philip, that it was not Him Who was talking to him, but the Father: "the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works".
Whenever you see a man or woman, you see one of two spiritual entities, dwelling in them, Yahaweh or Sahtahn (the Devil). All men and women, are proxies for Sahtahn and Yahaweh. This is why it is written, "you wrestle not with flesh and blood". Each man, and woman, is a vessel or either wrath or mercy, from the womb. You have no say over how you are to be used, it is up to the potter (Romans 9):
"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." Psalms 58:3
"I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly." Psalms 22:10
This began in the Garden with Cain and Abel. Then we see it again, with Abraham, who has two sons, one dark and one light. Then it is repeated, with Isaac having two sons (darkness and light) who actually fought in Rebekah's womb. Esau was Sahtahn's seed, Jacob was Yahaweh's. Esau struggled and was able to slip out of the womb first, but you see Jacob holding on to his heel. Esau would prove that he was Sahtahn's Seed, when he sold the birthright, back to Jacob.
This is all connected to the Two Trees in the Garden. The Tree of Life, concerns those who were chosen before time, those of the Seed of Abraham. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, concerns those who are Sahtahn's Seed, which are to be left in their fallen condition, to be used as vessels of wrath. They are darkness as a result of the Fall. This is how Sahtahn got his seed, to war with Abba's seed:
"For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." Exodus 17:16 (Moses, when the Father dwelled in him, in his generation.)
Abba planned the whole of time, to glorify Himself. Abba's Seed are called out of the darkness, into the light. Thus the two trees are demonstrative of the Two Seeds/natures in men (and women). This is why Messiah is regarded as having taught about the two trees, with two different fruits. One tree bears BAD fruit, and one tree bears GOOD fruit. The trees that do not bear GOOD fruit are to be destroyed:
"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew 7:17-20
Now, you can see why Jesus told the Jews, who were Sahtahn's Seed in His generation, "You are of your father, the Devil!"
The chosen vessels, are men in which the Father dwells and reigns in. The rejected vessels of wrath, are men given to Sahtahn, for him to use, and Abba destroys them.
Here is a link to a site which explains how the tithe was existent before the law (Torah) and afterwards through the commandments. True believers, though not saved by good works, do demonstrate them because they are indwelt by the Father, Whose Spirit enables obedience.
Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 20 Jan, 2014 06:10 PM
The commandments concerning tithing are found in Leviticus and Deuteronimy. They are the commandments of God.
Jesus said, Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
To not tithe is to not keep the commandments of Jesus. Therefore, it is an act of disobedience and a sin. It is wrong to assume that because we are under a new covenant that everything about the old covenant is put away. The new covenant came out of the love of God (Jn 3:16) and is made possible in us through the power of grace. (Rom 3:24) So the new covenant does not free us from the obligation to keep the commandments of God but rather removes the condemnation for not keeping them perfectly. (Rom 8:1)
Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 21 Jan, 2014 03:13 AM
Hi SBD:
The English word 'keep' in the Scripture you posted this does not mean to 'obey',the word means to GUARD or to keep intact,or do not change.
I do not find 'tithing' within this Word of Messiah.
Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
James says,when you break one part of the law you break the whole law.
If we continue trying to obey the law we negate the completed Work of the Cross.
Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 21 Jan, 2014 06:07 AM
George shared ~ The English word 'keep' in the Scripture you posted this does not mean to 'obey', the word means to GUARD or to keep intact, or do not change.
Jesus said, Joh_14:15 If ye love me, [[[ keep ]]] my commandments.
*** G5083 tereo - It means to
1. to attend to carefully, take care of
2. [[[ to guard ]]]
3. [[[ metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is ]]]
4. [[[ to observe ]]]
5. [[[ to reserve: to undergo something ]]]
*** How can person do the above if he/she is not obeying a Command to do so ???�Cant be done�and that�s Why some folks like to discredit a simple Request of Yahweh�to give unto HIM so it may be Given unto others�Its such a simple choice and a simple thing to do and yet�some folks just want to explain it away�might as well toss out the whole Bible since some just pick and choose what is Right and what is Wrong with Yahweh�s Perfect WORD�xo
Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 21 Jan, 2014 05:49 PM
George shared ~ IF loving Messiah depends upon you or i to be OBEYING His commandments,then what kind of love would you and i have for Messiah.
*** The Greatest LOVE of ALL..:yay:.
G25 - love - Agapoa
Jhn 14:15 If [[[ ye love ]]] me, keep my commandments.
G26 Agape'
Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my [[[ love; ]]] even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his [[[ love. ]]]
There is NO Greater LOVE than this...it is as Abba our Father LOVE's HIS Children...and we are Created in HIS Image...and we are to Believe...Do...Live...Obey as HE Commands...not as man would have us to believe...do...dis-obey...
Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 21 Jan, 2014 06:32 PM
Hey Grace, if you don't want to tithe it's ok. You don't have to try to prove you don't have to because you can't find it in the "New Covenant". Please don't think that everything written in the New Testament is about the New Covenant.
You are a literalist and you're hung up on semantics. You aren't interested in intent and maybe you aren't interested in coming to a real understanding of what Jesus is all about anyway. As long as you limit your understanding of the New Testament to your literal interpretations you will have a very narrow view of the universe. But religion makes it necessary you know. Literalism is a very small world to make yourself live in.
Tuthing:Is this a NEW COVENANT teaching, yes or NO
Posted : 23 Jan, 2014 02:49 PM
HI SBD
I do not believe i would be a literalist in your understanding,yet i believe the Word of GOD to LITERALLY be His Word to fallen mankind.
Yet His Word has been tampered with by man.
I believe we are under a different Covenant which does not require Tithing,as we cannot find 'tithing' in the NEW COVENANT,just as we do not find any animal Sacrifices needed for the forgiveness of sin.
Nor is there any Clergy laity system such as the system within the so called 'church'.
People continue resorting to the Old Covenant to justify the things they want to believe which cannot be found in the New Covenant,Why i do not understand.
