I pray all those reference numbers do not come on this...grrrrr!
The Valley of Dry Bones
Ezekeil chapter 37: 1The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of the valley;a it was full of bones. And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry. And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, you know." Then he said to me, "Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O, dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the LORD."
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling,and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live." So I prophesied as he commanded me, and 19the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.' Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD."
I Will Be Their God, They Shall Be My People
15 The word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, take a stickd and write on it, 'For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him'; then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.' 17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 18 And when your people say to you, 'Will you not tell us what you mean by these?' 19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take 40the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the 41stick of Judah,e and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. 20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, 21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and 46bring them to their own land. 22 And will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidingsf in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 24. "My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. 26 63. I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be 64an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their landg and 65multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27. My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."
LOVE YOUR TESTOMONY Arch! thank you for sharing...:applause: but you also have need ot know that your regeneration did not take place when you were baptized as an infant. You were aready saced as an infant... it was your hearing of the gospel as a growing child attending church regularly and the influenced it had to you.
If baptism brings about salvation then this mean grace and faith is not enough, and Jesus' death on the croos also needs our help , God say His death and blood shed brings us into salvation.
You use scritures but I don't think you have READ the whole chapter of that which you have presented. You would do well to read Acts chpater 10, which tell us about Cronilus conversion, it tells us that BEFORE Cornlus was BAPTIZED yje Hp;y S[pirit came uponm Him... Again, do you clearly understand the meaning of the word regeneration? It means when a person receives the Holy Spirit this is called regeneration! No one is born again until the Holy Spirit comes upon the inside of them...
The only time this word is used in the Bible is when Paul explains the process in the Book of Titus chpater 3 PLEASE READ the whole chpater and not just up to that verses.
Also, you have need to read the whole chpater of Acys 14, about Lydia, we are told that she was already agodly woman but had not received the HOLY SPIRIT of Jesus Christ. And it was when Paul began to speak to her and the other women that God opened her understanding and she believed
in JESUS CHIRST, and received the Holy Spirit.
The Paul Paul was a terrorist killing Christnas who believed in Jesus, but when he was converted, je was confronted fce to face by Jesus, and lost his eye sight. When Jesus opened his eye he could see clearly and the Bible says he was filled with the Holy Spirit (which again means REGENERATION TOOK PLACE) AND tEHN HE WAS BAPTISED..
ii THINK YOU WOULD DO WELL IF YOU TOOK TIME TO reaD THE WHOLE BOOK OF aCTS for a better udnerstnading and lean not do your own understanding nor that of your church.
DLJ, have you REAd this sermn that you have posted by Spurgeon? It is the same one that I posted on the other thread that ames posted. I also think you will do welll to REAd the whole sermon and lean not to your OWN understanding, nor that of your church and HEAR what the preacher says!
Arch, start reading the Books of Acts in chapter 6, chapter 7, chapter 8, chapter 9, chapter 10, should onl;y atke you about two or three hours if you are a slow reader and maybe one and a half if you are a fast reader.
It looks longer that it really is. In fact I have posted the book of acts on this forum if you remember, so you can check that out, it would be easier and take shorter time...
You will find that all those examples of Cornilus nd Lydaia are not as you preceive... these people already knew abotu God, and the Holy Spirit had not been poured out upon them in the region.
I always read what i post, what good would it be to post something you have not read.
This is my favorite part,
"Just as I am�without one plea
But that thy blood was shed for me."
It is eminently suitable for a child of God, but I am not sure as to its being the precise way for putting the matter for a sinner. I do not believe in Jesus because I am persuaded that his blood was shed for me, but rather I discover that his blood was shed especially for me from the fact that I have been led to believe in him. I fear me there are thousands of people who believe that Jesus died for them, who are not born of God, but rather are hardened in their sin by their groundless hopes of mercy. There is no particular efficacy in a man's assuming that Christ has died for me; for it is a mere truism, if it true as some teach, that Jesus died for everybody. On such a theory every believer in a universal atonement would necessarily be born of God, which is very far from being the case. When the Holy Ghost leads us to rely upon the Lord Jesus, then the truth that God gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him might be saved, is opened up to our souls, and we see that for us who are believers, Jesus died with the special intent that we should be saved. For the Holy Spirit to assure us that Jesus shed his blood for us in particular is one thing, but merely to conclude that Jesus for us on the notion that he died for everybody is as far as the east is from the west, from being real faith in Jesus Christ.
DLJ said: Ella, what kin of fool do you take me for?????
Ella syas: DLJ I have no idea what kind of fool to you are or to take you for, I mean you could be a blind fool, a silly fool, a hardheaded foo, a crzy fool l and the list goes on... if fact, I never thought of taking you as any kind of fool, those are your words toward yourself... so tell me whta kind of fool are you????:excited::ROFL:
DLJ said:I always read what i post, what good would it be to post something you have not read.
Ella says: I was wondering why you had not read it and said anything about this sermon before now, maybe you didn't read it when it was first posted.
Again, do you understand what Spurgeon is talking about in this sermon about FAITH comes first, THEN REGENERATION?
I thought i had broke his sermon down far enough for you,but i guess i will feed you one line at a time.
if it true as some teach, that Jesus died for everybody. On such a theory every believer in a universal atonement would necessarily be born of God, which is very far from being the case. (From the paragraph taken from the last post, which was taken from the whole sermon.)
Get off the milk of the word and move on to the meat Ella, you seem like a bright woman but are stuck on such mere simpleness of biblical truth.
James wrote - "Israel, in Scripture is all of God's chosen people, and it ."
Wrong. Israel is Israel [even in Ezekiel 37]. They are and continue to be God's chosen people; the Church is the Church.
But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. [Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away. -Isaiah 41:8-9
For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. -Isaiah 14:1
Can you really replace Israel with the Church in those verses? Are you going to say the Church is actually Israel in the following verses?
But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me, O Israel. Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches. -Isaiah 43:22,28
Therefore the LORD heard [this], and was wroth: so a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel; Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in his salvation: -Psalm 78:21-22
If Israel "represents the church today also", how do you explain the above verses? The Church believes in God and the Church trusts in His salvation. Yet God is accusing the Church [Israel] of not believing in Him? Really? I could pull up so many verses that speak of Israel... that are for Israel, not about the Church or for the Church. Only someone with their head in the sand would see Israel as an entity other than Israel. But, whatever...
My post above is in response to James' remark [in which some of it was left out], "Israel, in Scripture is all of God's chosen people, and it represents the church today also." Sorry.
WILL THE SYMBOLIC TEMPLE IN EZEKIEL 40-48 BE PART OF THE MILLENIUM WITH ITS HUNDREDS OF ANIMAL SACRIFICES FOR SIN??
Hebrews 9:15,26b-28: Christ is the mediator of a **NEW COVENANT** so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant...But now He has APPEARED once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the SACRIFICE of Himself... so Christ was SACRIFICED ONCE to take away the sins of many people, and He will *APPEAR* a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.
Hebrews 8:8,9,13: God found fault with the people and said: The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a **NEW COVENANT** with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will **NOT** be like the covenant I made with their forefathers.....By calling this covenant **NEW**, He made the first one **OBSOLETE**; and what is **OBSOLETE** and aging will soon disappear.� When all the words of the New Covenant were completed by the Book of Revelation in AD 96!!
Hebrew 10:8-10: Jesus said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them. Although the law required them to be made. The He {Jesus} said. "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He {Jesus} set aside the first {Covenant} to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus ONCE FOR ALL!!
Isaiah 53:5,6: "He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him and by His wounds we are healed. We all like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to His own way, and the Lord has laid on HIM the iniquity of us all."
To suggest that Jesus will rule for 1,000 years in the symbolic Ezekiel Temple in Ezekiel 40-48 with its hundreds of bloody animal sacrifices for sin is completely disgusting since Jesus put an end of all sacrifices for sin ONCE FOR ALL!!
There are many passages that show animal sacrifices for sin in Ezekiel's Temple such as Ezekiel 45:22-25: "On that day {Passover} the Prince is to provide a bull as a **SIN** offering for himself{???} and for all the people of the land. Every day during the seven days of the Feast he is to provide 7 bulls without defect as a burnt offering to the Lord, and a male goat for a **SIN** offering...During the 7 days of the Feast...he is to make the same provision for **SIN** offerings??"
Also interesting is Ezekiel 48:1,32: "At the northern frontier, **DAN** will have one portion... "On the east side {Of Ezekiel's Temple}, which is 4500 cubits long will be 3 gates: the gate of Joseph, the gate of Benjamin and the gate of **DAN**??"
You will note in Revelation 7:4-8 the tribe of Manasseh {Joseph's son} has replaced the very sinful tribe of Dan.{See 1 Kings 12:28-30 & 2 Kings 10:29}
DOES A JEWISH TEMPLE WITH BIBLICAL SPECIFICATIONS HAVE TO BE REBUILT??
Some End-Time Groups who wrongly interpret Daniel 9:27a, and who believe in a 7-year Tribulation, {Starting with a New Jewish Temple} are now spreading false rumors that religious Jews are now building a Temple or are planning to tear down the Muslim Dome of the Rock in order to rebuild a Jewish Temple to Biblical specifications and will then REINSTITUTE animal sacrifices???
However there are several big problems with this scenario: All 21 Arab Muslim nations including Pakistan which has many nuclear bombs would then immediately declare an all-out Holy War on Israel, and the Israeli government fully understands this. I know this for I was a missionary in Israel. A Jewish Temple built to Biblical specifications would then take at least 7 years to build during this continuous war with the 21 Muslim nations. Most of these same End-Time Groups also teach that a pre-trib rapture could occur TODAY {Not at least 7 years from today} which of course makes the ridiculous *IMMINENT* pre-trib belief {That Jesus could come TODAY} a big joke.
Now all those who believe in a 7-year Tribulation only because of the wrong interpretation of Daniel 9:27a also believe that immediately following a CONCEALED pre-trib rapture of the Church saints that the Anti-Christ will make a Covenant with Israel; allowing the Jews to make animal sacrifices in a Jewish Temple built to Biblical specifications. They believe that at the end of 3 1/2 years in the middle of the 7 years the anti-christ will put an end to all animal sacrifices in this Jewish Temple. However, for over 1,000 years religious Jews have believed that when their Messiah comes He will bring with him the New Jewish Temple and the required Ark of the Covenant. And then the Messiah will re-establish the Levitical priesthood; who will then offer animal sacrifices according to OT Law.
For according to OT Law {See Numbers 3:5-10} all Jewish Priests must prove that they are direct descendants of Levi and these Levitical genealogies were completely destroyed when the last Jewish Temple was destroyed in AD 70. Therefore, no Scriptural OT animal sacrifices could possibly occur before then; since no Jew can now prove that he is a Levite!! And so if you are waiting for this Jewish Temple to be built to Biblical specifications by Jews who will then offer animal sacrifices; you are going to have to wait until this bogus Jewish messiah comes. Please do not hold your breath until this time!
Did Herod the Great completely destroy the 2nd Temple including its foundations around 17 BC?? The following is a quote from "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Page 334, Para 1 & 3: "And now Herod, in the 18th year of his reign undertook a very great work, that is, to build of himself the temple of God and make it LARGER in compass, and to raise it to a most significant altitude, as esteeming it to be the most glorious of all his actions and this would be sufficient for an everlasting memorial to him....so Herod TOOK AWAY THE OLD FOUNDATIONS AND LAID OTHERS, and erected the temple upon them. Herod's 3rd Temple was 100 cubits {150 feet} long." {The first two Jewish temples were both 60 cubits {90 feet} long as per 2 Chronicles 3:3 & Ezra 6:3.} So then Herod's Temple was the 3RD TEMPLE which according to John 2:20 took "46 years to build".
There are some who believe that a {4th} Jewish Temple built to Biblical specifications will appear during the End-Times and is suggested in Revelation 11:1. The TEMPLE IN HEAVEN is mentioned 12 times in Revelation where worshipers are present: Rev 3:12;7:15;11:19(2X);14:15,17;15:5,6,8(2x); & Rev 16:1,17. The only other time that a temple is mentioned is in Rev 11:1; where worshipers are present; so this could also be a reference to the TEMPLE IN HEAVEN.
Let us compare Rev 11:1 with Rev 7:15 and Rev 8:3-5: Revelation 11:1: I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD and the ALTAR, and count the worshipers there." Rev 7:15:"They {martyrs as per Rev 7:9-14} are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in HIS TEMPLE." Rev 8:3-5: Another angel, who had a golden censor, came and stood at the ALTAR. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden ALTAR before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel's hand.
Ephesians 2:19b-22: "You are members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ Himself as the chief cornerstone {Of the 4th and LAST TEMPLE}. In Him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a HOLY TEMPLE in the Lord. And in Him you too are being built {Living Stones-1 Pet 2:5} together to become a dwelling in which God lives by His Spirit. 2 Cor 6:16 "For *WE are the TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD!"{See Revelation 11:1 above!!} Acts 17:24: The God who made the world and everything in it ...does not live in temples built by hands. The �outer court� of the TEMPLE OF GOD in Rev 11:2 would be the saints on earth who are also the TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD.:angel:
Arch, Baby will you Please ... understand that when a person has faith to believe and receives Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, repents of their sins, immediately the Holy Spirit comes into the person's life and this ic alled regeneration. Nowhere in scripture are we told that the Holy Spirit fell upon any one while he/she was a sinner, and that person was baptized and regenerated and filled with the Holy Spirit BEFORE the person had faith to believe or had repneted of his/her sins. There is no one incident of such ahppening
It seems that the problme is that you don't spiritually undertsand what regeneration is about. This is the total work of the Holy Spirit in the believer's life AFTER, AFTER, AFTER the person has faith to believe in Christ and has repented of their sins, and does not take place at water baptism, it takes place when they place rceieves Jesus Christ. There is no such thing as baptism regeneration not in my Bible anywayzzz...and the Holy Spirit does NOT enter a sinner before they have confessed the Lord Jesu Christ and repented of their sins. A sinner HEARS the word of God becasue IT IS as Paul says the POWER of God convicting the person's heart of their sins letting them know they are lost and need to hear the gospel and salvation. Did you not even read what is posted in Ezekiel 37, God told Ezekiel to SPEAK the word of God to the dry bone, just as God speak to us in His gospel.
Acts chapter 9,Pauls conversion becasue I know you haven't read it. Verse 10: Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Anani'as. The Lord said to him in a vision, "Anani'as." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." 11 And the Lord said to him, "Rise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for a man of Tarsus named Saul; for behold, he is praying, 12 and he has seen a man named Anani'as come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight." 13 But Anani'as answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to thy saints at Jerusalem; 14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon thy name." 15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name." 17 So Anani'as departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized.
No where does it say that Paul was baptized First so he could hear the gospel, He received the Holy Spirit (regenerated) FIRST the he was baptized. So what you say contradicts what God says.
Acts chapter 10: Peter is sent by God to PREACH the gospel about Jesus Christ to Cornilus and his family: This Peter speaking to Cornilus Verse 42. And he commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that he is the one ordained by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." 44. While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 "Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
Cornilus the Holy Spirit fell ON ALL WHO HEARD THE GOSPEL, THEN they were baptized... so again, your theology of baptism regeneration so people can be able to hear the gospel is hogwash... these passages prove that it is not biblical at all, there is no such things as baptism regeneration, I dont' care what you believe of your church false doctrine and teachings... this is Bible and what God speaks over what man has made up out of spiritual ignornace.
There are many more passages but it would be too long, and I have grown tired of this discussion because the turth has been told, and I have given you chapters to read, so the rest is up to you and God and your church. I will decrease on this topic so that God might increase and spiritually open yours and all who believe in such false doctrine of baptism regeneration. may God Himslef open your eyes of understanding into the truth of His word.
