Thread: Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
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Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 1 Nov, 2011 03:36 PM
by: Dave Stevens
There was a time when I thought I spoke in tongues and saw visions of Jesus speaking to me. So, it is not as if I have a bias against the charismatic gifts. I use to think my special "baptism" of gifts offered me a deeper experience with God. I came home from college asking my church and believing family why they ignored the teachings on the Holy Spirit. I use to think that the gifts were the demonstration of the power of God.
I still believe in miracles and supernatural answers to prayer. However, I have come to realize that the Holy Spirit almost always works with and through the Word of God. In contrast to those who would deny the power of the Holy Spirit, I affirm that the greatest demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit is in the sovereign regeneration of lost souls, whereby God turns an unbelieving God hater into a believer.
I also want to set strait those who would accuse me of denying the fact that God directs us. I believe that God leads and directs His elect by giving them desires that conform to His revealed will (the Bible). In fact, God �works all things according to the counsel of His will� (Eph 1:11). Romans 8:28 says, "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." The opposite is also true of the reprobate. He works all things out for the bad to those who do not love God. For example, Prov. 16:4 states that "The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom." Romans 9:17 says of Pharaoh, �For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.'�
So, it would be perfectly appropriate to say, �I feel that God is leading me to do such and such�, which is another way of saying, �I think God is giving me the desire to do such and such�. If that desire conforms to God�s revealed will, we should recognize it as the gracious work of God in our hearts to conform us to the image of His Son. However, it is completely different to say, �God told me such and such� The former statement acknowledges God�s providence in leading us by means of our desires and circumstances. The later statement invokes the authority of God by speaking on His behalf. There is a big difference. In our modern experiential culture, professing Christians have become very comfortable with speaking on God�s behalf. This shows that they have little respect for His inspired word and no fear of misrepresenting Him. Few people take to heart the warning found in Deut. 18:20, "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die."
Cessationism teaches that the revelatory gifts (tongues and prophecy) have ceased to be given to the church by the Holy Spirit after the completion of the New Testament canon. The following is a list of reasons why I have become a cessationist.
Reason 1 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Every Good Work
2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." This passage explains that the scriptures are sufficient for our sanctification. It doesn't say that the scriptures equip us for some works, but we need the gifts of tongues or prophecy to really experience super spirituality. It says that the scriptures are sufficient to equip us for every good work.
Reason 2 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Salvation
The scriptures are also sufficient for saving souls. Romans 1:16 says, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." Those who would promote so called "power evangelism" argue that the gifts are important evangelistic tools. They would argue that miracles and demonstrations of the power of God would cause someone to believe in the gospel. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, told by Jesus in Luke 16, the rich man in hell begs Abraham to send Lazarus "to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment" (vs. 27b-28). Abraham then says "They have Moses and the prophets". The rich man argued the same argument as "power evangelists" do today. "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent" (vs. 30). Abraham's reply is this, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." So miracles do nothing to save the lost. God must first perform a sovereign work of regeneration before someone can believe.
The children of Israel witnessed many many miracles. They witnessed the 10 plagues in Egypt. They saw the parting of the Red Sea. They were guided by the pillar of fire at night and the pillar of cloud during the day. They were fed manna (a picture of Christ) for food. The drank from the rock (a picture of Christ) in the dessert. They heard God's very voice on Mt. Sinai. But, was this enough to give them faith? No, Hebrews says that they all died in the wilderness (except the families of Moses, Aaron, and Caleb) because of unbelief.
For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 3:16-19
What did those miracles accomplish for those who died in the wilderness? They served as greater judgement for them in hell. But to God's elect they serve as a witness of God's power and deliverance in salvation.
God has not chosen the gifts of tongues and prophecy as His means of producing faith in unbelievers. Instead, "it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor. 1:21).
Reason 3 - The Scriptures Are Complete
Hebrews 1:1-2 says the following:
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
The Greek word elalesen (spoken) is an aorist tense verb. The aorist tense indicates an action that has been completed in the past. Is God still speaking to us today through new revelation (tongues and prophecy)? No, because God has already spoken through His Son. His revelation is complete. But when did God speak by His Son? The answer can be found in John.
"These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. - John 14:25-26
�I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. - John 16:12-15
From these passages we see that the Apostles are not given anything apart from Jesus. Jesus was the true prophet. He had a set doctrine or teaching that he wanted to pass on to the disciples. However, the Holy Spirit would cause them to remember the things that Jesus taught. Even Paul was directly taught by the risen Jesus Christ (see Gal. 1:12 & 1 Cor. 11:23). Jesus is very clear in this passage that the Holy Spirit will speak only the things He hears from the Son (see "He will take of Mine and declare it to you" in vs 15). That is why the early church needed the gift of prophecy and tongues while the canon (list of books considered scripture) was being completed by the disciples. Theses gifts (as well as miracles) also authenticated the message being delivered.
The canon of scripture was eventually finished by John with the following warning in Revelations.
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. - Rev. 22:18-19
When John wrote Revelation, he was aware of the fact that he was the only surviving eye witness and apostle. Therefore, this warning can be understood in a much broader sense than just the book of Revelation.
I have yet to find a new translation of the Bible that contains new revelation from a modern day tongues and prophecy. But why not? If a new tongue or prophecy is from God, then it should be recognized as the very words of God and added to the back of every Bible. Why should there be any distinction? If God has really spoken through a modern day prophet, then His words today should cary the same authority as His words spoken long ago. Many who argue that tongues and prophecy are for today would balk at such an idea. They know that their modern day tongue or prophecy do not have the same authority as scripture. But they fail to explain why.
Reason 4 - Our Hearts Are Deceitful Above All Things
Jeremiah 17:9 says the following about our hearts
�The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?
Yet so many charismatics blindly follow inclinations and feelings in their heart that they think are from God. I once did this myself. My heart was deceiving myself into thinking that I was receiving revelation from God, when that revelation actually was coming from my own imagination and vanity. I was so deceived, that I actually thought that by making strange nonsensical noises, I was able to speak in an "angelic language". Jeremiah 23:25-26 explains that false prophecy comes from the deceit of our own hearts.
"I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, �I have dreamed, I have dreamed!� How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart," - Jer. 23:25-26
"Is not My word like a fire?� says the LORD, And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?" - Jer. 23:29
How do we know if a tongue or prophecy is from God? After all, it could be our imagination, or a hallucination. Charismatics usually have two answers for this.
They quote 1 John 4:1 out of context, which says, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God." The charismatic would interpret this passage by saying that we are to ask the spirit (the voice in our head) whether Jesus came in the flesh. But this is not what John is asking us to do. He is telling the church to test those who claim to be prophets by examining their doctrine. That is why John warns them that "many false prophets have gone out into the world".
Secondly, those who believe that tongues and prophecy are for today usually say that a tongue or prophecy can be validated by comparing it with scripture. But if every prophecy must be compared with scripture, then why do we need the new tongue or prophecy?
Reason 5 - We Are To Focus on God's Revealed Will
Many would argue that tongues and prophecy help us to understand God's secret plan for our lives. In this way, it is said that we can "get in on what God is going". Should we be focused on God's secret will? Actually, the Bible tells us the opposite.
�The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. - Deut. 29:29
Instead of worrying about missing out on God's plan, we should trust that God is sovereign enough to direct us by orchestrating events according to His providence. This is tremendously freeing because we no longer need to worry about looking for signs of God's secret will (which is superstition). Believers never miss out on something "better" because "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28). This frees us to focus on obeying His revealed will (i.e. ten commandments). God will take care of the rest. Jesus says "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). He doesn't tell us to focus on new revelation. Instead, we are to focus our attention and energies on what He has revealed, "My commandments".
We are also told several times in the scriptures not to "interpret omens" (see Lev. 19:26 Deut. 18:10). However, this is exactly what Charismatics do when they interpret current events as signs from God.
Reason 6 - The Imperatives in 1 Corinthians 12:31 and 14:1 Are Mistranslations
Some would quote the following verses to show that we should "earnestly desire the best gifts" (prophecy, tongues, etc).
"But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way." - 1 Cor. 12:31
"Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." - 1 Cor. 14:1
The Greek word for "earnestly desire" in vs 12:31 and "desire" in vs. 14:1 is zhlouvte (zaloute), which is a second person plural present active verb. The question at hand is whether this verb is in the imperative (a command) or indicative (a statement of fact) mood. The Greek verb ending -te is the verb ending for both imperative and indicative. In fact, Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida's Greek-English Lexicon even states that "It is also possible to understand zhlouvte in 1Cor 12:31 as being indicative and therefore translated as �you set your hearts on the more important gifts.�"
So, we need to look at the context to tell us if this verb is in the imperative or indicative mood. I would argue that the indicative mood makes much more sense with the subversive "yet I show you a more excellent way". In other words, Paul was stating the fact that they were zealously desiring the best gifts, which was causing divisions (chap. 12). Instead of desiring tongues and prophecy, they should have been desiring love, which in Paul's terms was "a more excellent way" (chap. 13).
The same is the case for 14:1. He tells them to pursue (diw�kete - follow with haste) love. This verb should be translated as an imperative because of the context of chapter 13. Then the next verb "desire" (zhlouvte) should be translated indicative (statement of fact). Why? Because of the context of verse 14:12, which is a summary of 14:1-11.
"Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel." - 1 Cor. 14:12
Paul is stating that "since" they were zealous for spiritual gifts (indicative again), their overall concern should be for the edification of the church. There are no commands in scripture to seek spiritual gifts. Spiritual gifts are sovereignly given by the Holy Spirit and are not given to everyone in the same way (1 Cor. 12:30). That is why they are called gifts.
Reason 7 - The Scriptures Tell Us That The Revelatory Gifts Have Ceased
Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. - 1 Corinthians 13:8-13
It is clear from this passage that tongues, prophecy, and words of knowledge will cease. The main issue is when they will cease. It is interesting to note that these three gifts are specifically called out as being temporary, in contrast to faith, hope and love. Why? I believe it is because they are revelatory.
Verse 10 tells us exactly when these gifts will cease, namely "when that which is perfect has come". The Greek word telios (perfect) means "brought to its end, finished; lacking nothing necessary to completeness; perfect" according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon and "having reached its end, finished, complete" according to the Liddell & Scott Greek lexicon. In other words, when the finishing of something has come, these gifts will cease. Here are some common interpretations of the word "perfect" (telios) in 1 Cor. 13:10.
maturity attained in our glorified state. This mixes metaphors (explained below).
the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. However, Christ is never described in the neuter gender. This also mixes metaphors (explained below).
the completion of the canon.
I believe the 3rd interpretation is correct for the following reasons. Firstly, this interpretation better explains how prophecy, tongues and words of new knowledge are incomplete (see "For we know in part and we prophecy in part" in verse 9). They are incomplete because, at that period in history, God had not completed them. Secondly, the third interpretation fits perfectly with the two metaphors that Paul uses to explain how the church's knowledge will become complete. The two metaphors that Paul uses to explain the contrast between knowing or prophesying in part and complete knowledge are as follows:
knowledge of a child vs. knowledge of a man
seeing through a dim mirror vs. seeing face to face
It can not be emphasized enough that these metaphors must be taken as metaphors. The first mistake people make in this passage is to interpret the "face to face" as the 2nd coming of Christ. But this would be mixing the metaphor ("seeing in a mirror") with something real (seeing Jesus Christ at His 2nd coming). Paul would never mix a metaphor with reality. If the first part is metaphorical (seeing in a mirror) so must the 2nd part (seeing in face to face). So, Paul is telling us that the completion of the canon will be like looking at someone face to face, compared to looking through the dim reflection of a 1st century mirror.
Conclusion
This paper was intended to make a concise biblical defense of Cessationism (the teaching that the revelatory gifts have ceased). The bible teaches us that the scriptures are sufficient for both our salvation and sanctification. The apostle John has completed the revelation of Jesus Christ by finishing the book of Revelation. The scriptures are trustworthy, while our hearts are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Therefore, instead of focusing on superstitious premonitions, we should focus our energy on obeying God's commandments as they are revealed in the scriptures. We can ignore those who say that God commands us to "earnestly desire the greater gifts" because these passages are not imperatives. And lastly, we should not seek to exercise the revelatory gifts, when the scriptures teach us that these gifts have ceased. I hope this paper has helped the reader understand that only God's Holy Word has the authority to bind man's conscience. May God use this to free those who are bound by superstition, error, and the doctrine of demons.
Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 2 Nov, 2011 08:40 PM
at the risk of being redundant, Corinthians 14:2 says he that speaketh in an unkown tounge speaketh not unto men but unto God for NO man understandeth him howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Plainly saying that an unknown tounge is exactly that UNKNOWN because NO MAN UNDERSTANDETH HIM, so NO MAN it doesnt say no man except the ones that understand, that completly nixes anyones argument that speaking in tounges is only the acts chapter 2 thing where people spoke in one earthly launguage and people from some where else understood, this is refering to a prayer llanguage it says this clearly "he that speaketh in an unknown tounge speaketh not unto men but unto God" that is as plain as it gets speaking to God is prayer so therefore its a prayer tounge (language) , as to the dog barking every true Christian knows that for everything God does satan trys to conterfit that explains the barking the other girl refers to so much it is of satan and instead of down rading these people we should be crying out to God on their behalf because they have bought into the counterfit but I am by no means saying that all people who speak in tounges are counterfits of satan it is very real and it is biblical and I pray for your fear ,doubt and unbelief!
Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 2 Nov, 2011 08:49 PM
Corinthians 14:2 for he that speaketh in an unknown tounge speaketh not unto men but unto God for NO MAN understandeth him howbeit in ht espirit he speaketh mysteries, so plese explain to me how that goes along with your statement that tounges has to be an earthly languege spoken today as it plainly says NO MAN UNDERSTANDETH IT how can in be an earthly language if no man understands it, it also says that man speaking tounges is speaking to God, its as plain as day to me, I am praying for God to deliver you from your unbelief I am not the one who said it its the Word of God
I am called by my God to speak about such madness in the churches to show them what demons do among them and reasons why they all will get to the lake of Fire after their Judgment!
There will be a great FALLING AWAY {THE GREAT APOSTASY} at the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
And we are able to see it in so-called christian churches and among fake-christians/so-called-christians/ self-born christians!
God does not call us to be unreasonable and mad! The christian faith is reasonable. There is NO madness in our God and there should be no madness in His sons!
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy . . . having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
� 2 Timothy 3:1�2, 5
An oxymoron basically is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms, like "jumbo shrimp," "virtual reality," "friendly fire," and "found missing." Then there is one of my favorites: "fresh frozen." You might go into a restaurant and ask, "Is this fish fresh?"
"It is fresh frozen," the server will say.
"Well, is it fresh?" you will ask again.
"It is fresh frozen." Why don't they just tell you that it is old?
Then there are other classic oxymorons, like "exact estimate" and "airline food." We can add "genuine imitation" to that list as well.
The idea of genuine imitation is what Jesus conveys in a story known as the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares. Prior to Jesus' return, the devil effectively will flood the market with cheap imitations of the real thing. In fact, there will be so many genuine imitations that people will have a difficult time distinguishing the true from the false.
Why will the devil do this? Because it is effective. When it is revealed that a so-called Christian has been living a double life that is a complete contradiction of his or her profession of faith, some people might think, Well, that person is a hypocrite, so I am not going to be a Christian either. I am going to turn my back on this. They are all just a bunch of phonies. They fell for the devil's trap.
So according to Jesus' parable, there will be many in the last days who believe�and many who will fake belief. They will sit side by side in the same churches. They will sing the same songs. They will read the same Bibles. They will say the same things, to some degree. But in reality, these people are never really believers to begin with.
Why do people buy into these crazy teachings? Don't they know any better? The Bible tells us that in the last days, there will literally be a cult explosion�an ever-growing plethora of every belief system possible except the right one.
The Bible tells us that Satan will:
"Use every kind of wicked deception to fool those who are on their way to destruction because they refuse to believe the truth that would save them. So God will send great deception upon them, and they will believe all these lies. Then they will be condemned for not believing the truth and for enjoying the evil they do" (2 Thess. 2:10-12 NLT).
You know something is popular when you start seeing the knock-offs or imitations. The Devil is not very original. He has always seen the value of copying something, and, in so doing, confusing the issue. It seems that whenever there is a genuine work of the Spirit of God, Satan will have his imitation.
Consider Pharaoh's magicians, who were able to duplicate the miracles of Moses, such as the plague of blood in the Nile, and the plague of frogs (see Exodus 7-8).
Jesus told the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24-30). In the story, a man planted wheat in a field, but his enemy came at night and planted tares (or the darnel seed) in the same field. Initially, this tare looks just like the wheat. But as time goes by, it actually uproots the wheat and ultimately destroys it.
These days while God is working, the devil is planting his tares. When they are exposed, people say, "See�they are all hypocrites!" As Peter said, "Christ and his true way will be slandered" through this. Yet, the presence of so many imitations should actually prove that there is an Original.
Whatever we have as Christians, you can be sure that Satan has a counterfeit version:
He has a false gospel that tells you that you can make up the rules as you go.
Along with this false gospel comes a false hope. People think that because they have gone through a certain religious ritual, they are eternally secure.
He has a false messiah. Satan always wanted the top job in heaven, and he has never gotten over losing his once exalted position. In these last days, he will thrust his imitation messiah�the Antichrist� on the world scene.
Here we see Satan's unholy trinity:
Satan, imitating God (and, for a short time, having the worship of people worldwide)
The Antichrist masquerading as the Son
The false prophet impersonating the Holy Spirit
The Work of the Antichrist
The Antichrist will bring about a new religious system that will accommodate everyone. We are currently in the midst of a cult explosion. Whether it be Dianetics, EST, goddess worship, reincarnation, astrology, holistic healing, or any of a hundred consciousness raising techniques of our day�the modern age is on a search for some mystical divine unity. The times are ripe for a world religion.
Brothers,
we ALL listen to the words of God (seed of God) but WE determine what kind of soil our heart will be!!!
We all need to make a real commitment to God Jesus because He is going to judge not only what we say but our motives!
That's why if our mouth will bark like these people bark in this video I provided you above with, then God will judge not only your barking but WHY did you decide to bark!
Is it a genuine imitation of God?!
A barking god is NOT God of Israel. My Father does not bark. He is teaching me to be separated from the madness of the world! I am able to see and understand what is madness and how to live correct.
Why? Because if you are born of God, you KNOW God. And God is not a barking dog! And His HOLY sons are not barking as these fake-churches do! Knowing God, we do what our God says.
Those who bark are demons-possessed. If God is livening in you, demons cannt live in you.
If those who bark in you are NOT the HOLY God of Israel, then who bark in you are demons! It is the manifestation of demons! We can clearly see it on this video!
You should GET RID of your demons TURNING your heart to God, repenting and asking Him to forgive your sins and connections with demons. Then you will be FREE.
If your god is a dog then HOW are you going to get to the Kingdom of God of Israel?!
Get out of your dogs living inside of you and be a son not of demons but the HOLY God of Israel! His sons said:
But everything should be done (in the Church) decently and in orderly way. 1 Corinthians 14:40
If you do not know what is decently then you SHOULD know it. Because God is going to judge your actions and motives. There is NO MADNESS in this God!
Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 3 Nov, 2011 10:09 AM
Lady,
you didnt get what we have discussed here.
You are talking about healing by the laying on of hands.
I prayed about a Muslim man laying on him my hands and God healed him.
There are many manifestations of the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers in the God Jesus.
That's why He gives us many gifts.
So many gifts that I even cannt count then here right now.
The tongues is just one of the them!!!!!
Re-red the Scripture to see it.
We all agree that it is possible that people speak today in the tongues. But we have not met such people yet. What we see in our Churches is just crazy barking. And this barking cannt be the language of the Holy Spirit. Check thread I posted for you a link where you can see such barking.
So, what I say: those who bark will be judged by God. Because they allowed themselves to be deceived by other 'christians' and they deceive other people. God does not bark because the Holy Spirit is not dog!!!!
God will start the judgement from the House of God.
Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 3 Nov, 2011 11:38 AM
Bahira 1st off my name is not lady it is elisha 2nd off I am the one that origianly post on satans counterfits, let me ask you this? if you think satan is counterfiting the speaking in tounges then isnt that an admission that it is real? and that there are people who speak in tounges I dont know if you know english well enough to know what immitation or counterfit means but it implys there is an original the real thing, so if you want to talk about oxymorans and so forth then you need to look first at yourself because you have talked from both sides of your head again you say its not real and its not realy happening yet you say satan imitates it????? I am confused, so as I already have adressed the barking you keep speaking of I will ONE MORE TIME say it. That is an immitation of the real thing and PLEASE READ CORINTHIANS 14:2 and then reply
Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 3 Nov, 2011 11:46 AM
You also should be careful calling people demon poseesd., if you are such a good christain you should know what the bible says about your tounge and the things you say against your brothers and sisters youi have no Biblical straning to call me demon possesd, or anything else if anything you are being controled and manipulated by demons and you dont see it but you still acuse me of being possed (satan is the acuser of the brethren) incase you didnt klnow that, so anythime you acuse someone that is satan
Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 3 Nov, 2011 02:10 PM
Where is at least 'ONE SCRIPTURE' which says that all of the gifts / 'CHARISMA' or at least some of the gifts / 'CHARISMA' have ceased.
English-Gifts:
Greek-'CHARISMA'
The root word of Charisma is what,OH no can the root word actually be 'CHARIS'
'CHARIS' or 'GRACE'
The Charisma /Charis / Grace of Yeshua does not end,seeing that Yeshua is Eternally Theos / GOD / LORD ...
When will we get back to the WORD of GOD...
Shalom
Me
Charisma:
G5486
χάρισμα
charisma
Thayer Definition:
1) a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own
2) the gift of divine grace
3) the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
4) the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith
5) grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from G5483
1) to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify
1a) to show one�s self gracious, kind, benevolent
1b) to grant forgiveness, to pardon
1c) to give graciously, give freely, bestow
1c1) to forgive
1c2) graciously to restore one to another
1c3) to preserve for one a person in peril
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: middle voice from G5485
Citing in TDNT: 9:372, 1298
Charis:
G5485
χάρις
charis
Thayer Definition:
1) grace
1a) that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
2) good will, loving-kindness, favour
2a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
3) what is due to grace
3a) the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 3 Nov, 2011 03:03 PM
I didnt see where you posted the scripture the refers to the gifts ceasing, unless you see the scripture love never fails... "when that which is perfect has come" then things that are in part will cease " I agree that that which is perfect doews not apply just to Christ but it does apply the time when he comes and all that comes with it his coming and the perfect city and his coming, it certainly doesnt refer to the canon, that is an asumption and as I said before God doesnt need the gifts of the spirit to do anything the gifts were given to us because we need them not only to wright the Bible we (mankind) need the spirit and the gifts to pray right, to walk in light , to kow the voice of God and sence his gentel nuges. to me ceasation is a bunch of malarky that people who have unbelief and doubt have twisted scripture to say something that goes along with their doubt and I am praying for all of them to see the truth, I will say again read corinthians 14:2 then someone reply and adress that scripture.. thank you
