Author	Thread: Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20
Admin	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 18 Dec, 2011 04:06 PM "If you believe Jesus stands knocking at the door of the human heart, then you make sovereign the one who answers the door. I prayerfully long for the day when pastors, evangelists, and Christians in general will stop proclaiming a man-centered gospel by misusing Revelation 3:20 and drawing an emotional and often-times false response from the hearer. Jesus is not standing at the locked door of any sin-corroded human heart, longing to be let in. Jesus doesn't need the acceptance of anyone. Everyone needs His. The context of the before-mentioned verse finds Jesus not speaking to the unsaved, but to a disobedient church. It is not an evangelistic verse, nor should it be used as such. Jesus never asked anyone to let Him come into their heart. He commanded people to repent and believe the gospel. And those who repent and believe the gospel--by the grace of God alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone--will be saved." (Tony Miano) Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 04:43 PM Thats RIGHT PJ...a person is either a Child of GOD~Born Again (sheep) or NOT ( goat )...and ifin yer name Aint written in the Book of Life...well...we All know what happens to the goats...xo Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 04:52 PM Now there are some hyper Calvinists who claim the above interpretation of Rev 3:14-21 denies the sovereignty and election of the Father. Since we are merely humans who do not know whom God has chosen it is still our job to bring the Gospel to all nations and tribes and languages as per the Great Commission of Matthew 28:18-20 and Revelation 7:9,14 & Matthew 24:14. And it the sovereign job of God the Father to chose whom He wants to be saved by drawing them with the Word of God. The Christian Reformed Church seems to have forgotten the Great Commission and send 99% of their ministers and teachers to areas of the world where there are many other Dutch and Scotch Calvinists. John 6:44: Jesus says, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that I should lose none of all that He has given Me, but raise them up on the Last Day...No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him, and I will raise them up on the Last Day." I Peter 1:23-25: You have been born again....through the living and enduring Word of God. For all men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the Word of the Lord stands forever. And this is the Word that was preached to you. John 1:12-13: "To all who received Him {Jesus}, to those who believed in His Name, He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will but **BORN OF GOD**!!" There will be 2 comings of Jesus on the Last Day. The first will be *FOR* His saints and immediately after the marriage Feast of the Lamb {See Rev 19:8-20} He will come **WITH** His saints as per Revelation 17:14: "They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings-- and **WITH HIM* will be His CALLED, CHOSEN AND FAITHFUL followers!!" I believe the Father only chooses those He knows will be *FAITHFUL**!! Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 05:06 PM James, you are beginning to sound like a member of a CULT, defending a LIE just becaue YOu have been tauigh to believe a LIE in your Calvinism... Are you defending Your Calivinist wtisted doctrine or are you defedning what God speaks in His word fo Truth that everyone has pointed out to you that what you speak and what this unbelievers Miano spaeks is a LIE.. and we ALL KNOW that a LIE OF NOT OF GOD, BUT OF SATAN! So whats youre problem correcting what has been brought to your attention of the truth, even by your won preachers? This is not about defending Calvin or Arminius, ITS BAOUT DEFEDNING THE FAITH AND TRUTH OF GOD'S WROD... And what does the word of God speak to you THIS DAY.. IF ANY MAN HEARS MY VOICE, AND OPENS IT I WILL COME IN AND DINE WITH YOU... God will come into YOUR HEART and REVEAL TO YOU THE TRUTH OF HIS WORD, and not the TRUTH YOU BELIEVE OF MEN'S WORDS' WHO HAVE A FORM OF GODLINESS! James apply what God speak to all the churches in Revelation to yoruself, and watch the salvation fo God comes to your house!... that is, IF YOU OPEN YOUR DOOR:laugh::angel::glow::hearts: Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 05:15 PM James, You are so full of it. I mean, c'mon, why misrepresent those who disagree with you by laying out a bunch of garbage and call it our belief? Why paint a picture of Christ that misrepresents not only Him, but who we believe Him to be? All so that your theology can look better? Why don't you tell us instead how a blind and naked person can be a Believer [Church]? Tell us too how Jesus can say to a Believer [Church] "thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor". And while you're at it, explain why Jesus said He would "spue thee out of my mouth" if He were speaking to Believers [Church]. Especially given the fact that you believe the 5th point of Calvinism. Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 05:15 PM No one can be a sheep UNLES the person OPENS THE DOOR OF HIS/HER, AFTER HEARING the gospel, repents of their sins and receive Jesus Christ into their hearts. And since Jesus died for the sins of the sheep as you say... then He is calling you to repentance for denying His word of truth and repent of your sins, Otherwise, you are behaviing like a goat, harheaded stubborn, rebellious and rejecting the truth of what God say, to believ a lie just becasue the person who said it is a Calvinsit... Since when did Calvin died on the cross to save anybody, INCLUDING HIMSELF! For all you know he might be with the goats at this very moment in the pits of HEL!!!:purpleangel: tHIS IS WHY WE ARE ATUGHT BY pUL TO beleiev the gospel fo JESUS CHRIST AND NOT THE GOSPEL ACCORIDNG TO MEN! Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 05:17 PM @ OP Born Again believers never take credit for their own Salvation. Jesus is the only one that can "save" a person. Where do you get that conception, that we said, we save ourself? The bible tells you to repent of your sins and except Christ as you personal savior. Reformers sound like some kind of Cult and follow their own translations, Not Truth, according to the B I B L E. :rolleyes: Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 05:34 PM TO James: James,have you personally ever read the Word of YHWH. Almost everything you have posted has been written by someone else. Revelation has not stopped,even though we have the Scriptures. Has the Holy Spirit 'EVER' revealed to you who Yeshua is,and what He is like. Or is the ONLY revelation you have recieved is by reading the works of other men. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Revelation. He still reveals who Yeshua is,and what He is like. Oh and He still does this at this very moment. Joh 14:16 And I will petition the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may remain with you to the age, Joh 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you. Joh 14:18 I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you. Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to tell you, but you are not able to bear now. Joh 16:13 But when that One comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you into all Truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will announce the coming things to you. Joh 16:14 That One will glorify Me, for He will receive from Mine and will announce to you. Joh 16:15 All things which the Father has are Mine. For this reason I said that He receives from Mine, and will announce to you. English-annonce Greek-anaggell� anaggell�: to bring back word, announce Original Word: ἀναγγέλλω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: anaggell� Phonetic Spelling: (an-ang-el'-lo) Short Definition: I announce, make known, report Definition: I bring back word, report; I announce, declare. 312 anagg�llō (from 303 /an�, "up, completing a process" and aggellō, "declare") � properly, tell all the way up, i.e. clearly � declaring a thought (communication) that shows it has cleared (gone through) its necessary stages. One last thing. Salvation is not about being an Arminian,Calvanist,Protestant, Baptist,Presbyterian,Lutheran,Episcopalian,Anglican,Or any other Religion. Yes,all of the above named groups are Religions. In the mind of YHWH,there are only two people. Those which have been called unto Yeshua,which have been given Faith to trusting Yesuha to be saving them from the wrath of YHWH against their Unbelief and sin(s). And those which have not faith in Yeshua to be saving them from the wrath of YHWH Against their unbelief and sin(s). Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few chosen. English-called Greek-klētos G2822 κλητός klētos Thayer Definition: 1) called, invited (to a banquet) 1a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ 1b) called to (the discharge of) some office 1b1) divinely selected and appointed Part of Speech: adjective A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from the same as G2821 English-Few Greek-oligos G3641 ὀλίγος oligos Thayer Definition: 1) little, small, few 1a) of number: multitude, quantity, or size 1b) of time: short 1c) of degree or intensity: light, slight Part of Speech: adjective English-Chosen Greek-eklektos G1588 ἐκλεκτός eklektos Thayer Definition: 1) picked out, chosen 1a) chosen by God 1a1) to obtain salvation through Christ 1a1a) Christians are called �chosen or elect� of God 1a2) the Messiah in called �elect�, as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable 1a3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians Part of Speech: adjective A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from G1586 G1586 ἐκλέγομαι eklegomai Thayer Definition: 1) to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one�s self 1a) choosing one out of many, i.e. Jesus choosing his disciples 1b) choosing one for an office 1c) of God choosing whom he judged fit to receive his favours and separated from the rest of mankind to be peculiarly his own and to be attended continually by his gracious oversight 1c1) i.e. the Israelites 1d) of God the Father choosing Christians, as those whom he set apart from the irreligious multitude as dear unto himself, and whom he has rendered, through faith in Christ, citizens in the Messianic kingdom: (Jam_2:5) so that the ground of the choice lies in Christ and his merits only Part of Speech: verb A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: middle voice from G1537 and G3004 (in its primary sense) Shalom The Farmer PS: I do not happen to be an Arminian,nor a Calvanist; Nor am i associated with any of the above groups of religious people. Since Yeshua called me unto Himself,and has given to me Faith to trust Him to be saving me from the wrath of YHWH against my Unbelief and sin(s). He has given me His Holy Spirit,who teaches and instucts me unto Knowing Yeshua as He is. I happen to be of the 'ELECT' of YHWH in Yesuha. I do not go to church,for church is not found anywhere in the Scriptures. I assemble with other believers in Yeshua,and fellowship with them. I Worthship Yeshua in Spirit and in truth,not by a band. I do not tithe. Freely i have been given,Freely i give. And i give as the needs arise. As the Holy Spirit empowers me,I have been reading, studying,and meditating upon the Word of YHWH for over 25 years. I hope this might answer some of the questions which you might have to be asking me,about my understanding of; The Triune Godhead Yeshua The Holy Spirit Salvation by Grace through Faith The Elect of YHWH,and eternal security Chesed Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 05:48 PM "Where do you get that conception, that we said, we save ourself?" Angel, It's a lie and they know it. They make up these lies and misrepresentations against those who do not agree with them, even to the point of making Jesus look like some kind of pansy, and then use those false accusations in their arguments against us. I think it's pathetic. Post Reply
View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 06:11 PM The fact is, Rev.3:20 was written to THE CHURCH. It was NOT written to the world. If you say it was written to everyone who ever lived, then YOU make the Bible contradict itself. In Christ, James Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	Quote in Misinterpreting Rev.3:20 Posted : 19 Dec, 2011 07:03 PM The text is clear!! Jesus does not spew out his Bride for being luke warm!! honestly! and James the only way that scripture contradicts the rest of the Bible is if you have twisted Gods word to say all does not = all and the world does not = the world, if you want to label folks then the calvinists have taken a few scriptures and ran with them so to speak! such as the scripture about the potter making a vessel for dishoner and jacob I have Loved and ... These scriptures are the ones that have been twisted and taken completly out of context! I may not be as smart as everyone else but I have read a bunch and even talked to my pastor about it becasue it was bugging me! That scripture is about israel and there back slidden state if you put those scriptures into context in wich they were written then the scripture in revelation that is in question does not contradict anything! and I dont know where in thge world you get your ideas about what "we" believe to be true about the Lord! Those are your hang ups with us! We most certainly or at l;east I dont see the lord the way you described! I am qyuite aware of what he did in the temple to the money changers! It upsets me when you say things like that which are pure asumptions! The fact is you all dont want any responsibilty to live a life of hollieness thats the bottom line! You call us lealistic and say we think ee save our self but the truth is You all have God ina tiney little box that wont allow him to m ake the choice to let us make the choice to accept or reject him! As I have said a trillion times and you have nevr adressed it , Israel and the history of their relationship with Jehova is a typologey of the relationship of the chruch (the true church the body of Christ) to Jesus it is a demostraion and Israel rejected god over and over! Just as we have thge choice to reject him! If you rightly dicid the word and actuly read it it and understand it not with the mind that is flesh but with the guidence of the Holy Spirit revealing the word to you, then you will see these things and it becomes OH so simple! once again I say the God is sovergin enough to give us the choice to reject him and not lose a bit of his soverngty! thats the box you guys want to put him in! That is the boundries of your fleshly mind at work just becasue it is your fleshes understanding that if we have the choice to reject him them we save ourself and he isnt sovergin then like I said that is YOUR HUMAN CARNAL MIND THAT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING YET and may not understand everything until judgment day, or when we see him face to face and put on our new bodies when we understand! Until then we just have to believe evry word of the bible and except that we dont know it all! Post Reply

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