Agapeton, PLEASE PRODUCE SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS THAT ALL THE LAWS HAVE BEEN DONE AWAY WITH.
I can't seem to fimnd this in my Bible... what Bible are you using, I have several, so hopeful I have a Bible as your and will be able to find such passages that state that ALL THE LAWS were doen away with when Jesus came.
Man could not follow the Law; Jesus come to full fill the Law, they are not done away with but through Jesus we can be Justified through faith in Him. He is the Ultimate sacrifice for Sin. God hates Sin. And if man does not Repent and turn he still is in Sin.
Agapeton, you're good about ASKING QUESTIONS THEN, as Elisha says, when the answer IS NOT as you wish, and/or think it should be, you say its not right... but you yourself have yet to ANSWER OR EXPLAIN any QUESTIONS or SCRIPTURES outside of saying its all wrong... are YOU a Christian believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and the Word of God? Or are you a believer ONLY of those things that itche your ears and make you feel good inside, and are not according to ALL that is in the Word of God's truth... whose truth are you listening to, and believiing , your OWN OR YOUR TEACHERS?
ME: I am a born again believer and COMPLETELY AGREE WITH ALL OF THE WORD OF GOD AND FOLLOW IT TO ITS FULL CAPACITY, sister. I was a born Italian ROMAN CATHOLIC WHO FOLLOWED HIS Father's RELIGION AND NEW A LOT OF IT AS FAR AS WHAT THE EARLY FATHERS SAID. I CAME TO KNOW CHRIST WHILE STUDYING TO BE A Jehovah's Witness( The reason why I started with them was because of the Jesus being God thing. This is an old argument which was prominent in the early church fathers day as well as the Jews in ancient times. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for this because He prompted me to learn of the Jewish culture as well as the early thoughts on whom they believed the Mamre of God was and have a lot of their teachings on many things like the targums and talmuds. The Lord has blessed me in that knowledge in the way that he made me inquisitive in all things. I follow His command by searching all things and holding on to that which is true.) BECAUSE I ACTUALLY READ THE BIBLE ALL THE WAY THROUGH AND STARTED QUESTIONING THE CULT ACCORDING TO THEIR BELIEF (my favorite life verse in Scripture is Proverbs 26:4-5. That is my whole method of questioning people.) After that the Lord brought me to a charismatic church of which tried to teach me of speaking in tongues, which they said was the evidence of the Holy Spirit. Now, since the Lord had made me the inquisitive type AND saved me from a man's philosophical ideology of what Scripture said, I questioned this belief BECAUSE I ALSO SPEAK IN A TONGUE AS IT IS. That prompting by the Lord Jesus drove me to learn the Greek as well as the customs of the new testament and to read the Scriptures within the context of the history and culture that was evident when it was written. I can go on but I believe that this will suffice for now since you are asking for some sort of credentials of my faith and will continue with what seen in this DISCUSSION FORUM by a certain few who tend to think that people are attempting to sway believers from a faith that they themselves don't fully know themselves.
I've yet to see you question anyone else here you know because of some of the things they said that were questionable when it came to Scripture. Are you partial?
So to start, maybe you should EXPLAIN TO US WHAT ALL THIS MEANS THAT JESUS IS SAYING IN THE PASSAGES... AND WHAT DOES HE MEAN WHEN HE SAYS, HE DID NOT COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, BUT HE CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW... What is the meaning of all of this?
Matthew 5:17. �Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Jesus was the Messiah, prophet, king, God, savior, servant, son of man etc. etc. THAT WAS PREDICTED, SPOKEN OF AND THE MAIN THEME OF THE SCRIPTURES THAT SPOKEN OF. He CAM TO DO WHAT WAS IN THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS AND THER BY FULFILL EVERY STROKE AND LETTER OF THE SCRIPTURES. AND HE DID JUST THAT. To say that Jesus didn't fulfill all of it or just a few things of the law is to agree with Judaism and proclaim him a FALSE MESSIAH ALONG WITH THE JEWS. THAT IS THE WHOLE CRUX OF THE JEWISH FAITH, my dear sister.
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus IS THE GREAT KEEPER AND PRACTICER AND THEREFORE WORTHY TO BE CALLED WORTHY IN HEAVEN. You agree?
As for the rest, Jesus came to the Jews first, who were chosen by God to bring in the knowledge of the truth through their old covenant precepts, who being born under the law of Moses, BY USING THE LAW OF MOSES TO SHOW THEM THEIR IMPERFECTION BY IT AND BRINGING THEM THE TRUE MEANING OF WHO HE IS AND WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO. To come to Him and believe on HIM.
Agapeton, PLEASE PRODUCE SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS THAT ALL THE LAWS HAVE BEEN DONE AWAY WITH.
I can't seem to fimnd this in my Bible... what Bible are you using, I have several, so hopeful I have a Bible as your and will be able to find such passages that state that ALL THE LAWS were doen away with when Jesus came.
Um, sister. I've ALREADY PROVIDED SCRIPTURES IN THIS TOPIC ON THE FIRST PAGE TO SHALOM. Had you actually READ IT YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN IT AND RESEARCHED IT BY NOW.
HERE IS THE RE-POST:What LAWS SHOULD Christians FOLLOW
Posted : 2 Jan, 2012 09:35 AM
shalom716 We should follow the Ten Commandments, because the new covenant never did away with the law only fulfilled it. As far as the levitical feasts etc. I don't believe it is a requirement, however, I really have not read through them all. I do appreciate the roots of christianity which is based on Judiasm and the orthodox Jews do keep the levitical laws as well. I think they do so beyond what is necessary, because they have not accepted Messiah as their savior therefore, they are more legalistic. I pray for Jewish people to accept Jesus as their Messiah. They show great respect for the word of G-d and the law, but they are missing it on salvation.
ME: Sister, The "ten commandments" are abolished according to the New Testament. Here is proof.
Epheshians 2:11-16 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; :12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the COVENANTSof promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off ARE MADE NIGH by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, WHO HAD MADE BOTH ONE, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having ABOLISHED IN HIS FLESH THE ENMITY, EVEN THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; :16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having SLAIN THE ENMITY thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For THROUGH HIM we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Romans 7:1-7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Galatians 3:23 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. :24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
All of 2 Corinthians chapter 31 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward; :5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ> 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Lu 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Agapeton, I really don't think YOU have a very clear understanding of what the LAW is yourself or is all about.
Every Christian believer knows that we are NOT saved or justified by the law.... Romans and Galtians tells us this and so deos Ephesians, that it is by grace whcih was God's provsison through Jesus Christ, and on our part through faith to believe in what God did thorugh Jesus Christ on the cross, so what are you talking about?
For what the LAW couldn't do GRACE MERCY LOVE, DID FOR US THROUGH THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHIRST.
None of this has to do with Christian believers obey the Ten Commandment laws of God... whether Jews, Greek, Asians, or Russians... its hwat Jesus Christ did on the cros that we are justified and saved from sins, that is, of course, if we are to have faith to believe...
Justification adn righteousness does not come from the law, but thorugh Jesus and obedience to the leadership of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ became out propitiaiton, not the law!
ME: I have answered your questions, sister now I ask you to do the same WITHOUT TELLING ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS CLEARLY SET IN FRONT OF YOU WITH NOTHING BUT CLEAR WORDS (THE BIBLE).
SO, If you say that we Christians are to FOLLOW THE LAW OF MOSES and NOT the NEW LAW OF CHRIST, then you need to explain WHY WE HAVE A NEW COVENANT SINCE WE FIND A BETTER WAY OF LIFE THROUGH FOLLOWING THE OLD COVENANT STANDARDS OF LIVING?
As I had thought... Agapeton, love your testimony.. but the passages you have provided in Ephesians 2:11-16, are speaking about RITIUAL AND CERMONIAL LAWS, which when Jesus came were abolished... NOT THE LAW OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, there is a difference between ritual laws and ceremonial laws.
Paul is speaking about the circumsicion and uncircision of the Jews and Gentiles, and the receiving of the Gentiles into the spiritual blessings with the Jews without physcial circumsision but spiritual circumcision of the heart before and after salvation. And how God made the Jews and Gentiles as One through what Jesus did on the cross so that we ALL may be apart of the spiritual blessings.
God removed the Mosaic Law of the RITIUAL of circumcision becasue the Jew thought they had it going on and were the only ones who had access to God, becasue they were given the law, and this amde them feel better than the Gentiles. But through Jesus Chirst we are now all one as the body of Christ by faith thorugh the gospel.
the Jews thought that circumcision was the only way to God and salvation, and this is what Paul is teaching against the ritiual law of circumcision which was in the Mosaic law, and the Jews were abusing this by telling people they could come into a relationship with God if they were curcumcised.
This is not the same as the Law of the Ten Commandment Jesus is speaking about.. sorry!
The Moasic Law was one of Ritiuals and Ceremonies and of WORKS, this is the alw that was abolished when Jesus came.... the spiritual Law of the Ten Commandment are by Faith and Grace which we are to follow and obey, this Jesus DID NOT ABOLISH.
Agapetn said: SO, If you say that we Christians are to FOLLOW THE LAW OF MOSES and NOT the NEW LAW OF CHRIST, then you need to explain WHY WE HAVE A NEW COVENANT SINCE WE FIND A BETTER WAY OF LIFE THROUGH FOLLOWING THE OLD COVENANT STANDARDS OF LIVING?
Ella says: Agapeton, if you can follow what I have said with clear understanding, then this lets me know that you don't have a clear clue as to what God is saying in His Word, and this is why and what is causing your confusion and you're not receiving what od is spekaing in His Word... Nothing I've said in any of my comments, speaks to your above comment.
Ask of God for wsidom into His Word so that you might spiritually connect the dots with His revealtion into His word and not your OWN... you're out of the loop with what you THINK and your OPINIONS of what God is saying.
