All who are in Christ: Would the 1st century believers...
Posted : 3 Jan, 2012 11:14 PM
Identify with our modern "church" gathering service today? Seriously. Do you think that our modern gathering of ourselves is the same now as it was in the 1st century?
I know that this topic will be flooded with plenty on remarks from several self proclaimed spiritually adept believers who protest my intentions as I post this, but this is a serious question that we must all ask ourselves. Do we really know about the modern practices at the gathering of the saints?
Can we actually find any Scriptural support for the order of worship on Sunday mornings?
1. The Greetings. ( As you enter the building, an usher greets and gives you some literature. )
2. Prayer or Scripture Reading. (Usually given by pastor or leader in the church.)
3. The song service. (Given by an individual song leader or by a group. )
4. The announcements. (Up coming events. )
5. The Offering. (Usually accompanied with musical accompaniment. )
6. The Sermon.
7. The Benediction. (Ending prayer, blessing, or a song to end the service. )
Some minor variations may include alter calls, prayer and the Lord's Supper.
(If you're a church going Christian, it is likely that you observe the same perfunctory order of worship every time you go to church no matter what denomination you belong to.)
Is this the way that the 1st century church met and performed it, or is this a tradition that has been instituted by men? Can we really say that the structure of the practice is the same?
Can we honestly say that this is how God intended the gatherings to be today?
I will post a small a break down of where these traditions came about with enough information in each point that can be easily researched by the individual and then can be discussed further in this topic.
1. The Greetings: As you enter the building, an usher greets and gives you some literature. The "usher" originated from Queen Elizabeth's day (1533-1603 ). They were responsible for walking people to their reserved seats to ensure that the seat wasn't taken. ( It also has its ties in the 3rd century.) They were in charge of collecting the offering, keeping records of who took the communion, keeping order in the building, and providing general direction to the laity.
2. Prayer or Scripture Reading: Usually given by pastor or leader in the church. See 4.
3. The song service: Given by an individual song leader or by a group. It originated with Constantin. Choirs were developed and trained to celebrate the Eucharist. The custom was borrowed from Roman customs in imperial ceremonies with processional music. Its roots also tie into pagan Greek temples and Greek dramas. The Greeks trained choirs to accompany their pagan worship. In 367 ad, congregational singing and was banned and replaced by music by trained choirs.
4. The announcements or up coming events: This is something that came about during the reformation. John Calvin, John Knox, and Martin Bucer added to the liturgical practices around the mid 15th century.
5. The Offering (Usually accompanied with music.): This falls into tithing. Although it is in the Bible, it is not a Christian practice. Tithing was a requirement for the Jews in the Old Testament and done away with in the New Testament by Christ. Tithing was something that Cyprian of Carthage argued to financially support the clergy. It was later adapted by Constantine. Later (in the 7th and 8th century), it was adapted by the churches to pay land that was leased to people in Charlemagne's day in Western Europe. It was a required law of the land. The law faded in the 10th century, but the practice didn't. Don't get me wrong. Donating for the needs of the poor was always a voluntary thing, but it became a " moral, legal mandatory religious requirement" in later centuries.
6. The Sermon: I can go deeper in this discussion, but I'll point out that it has it's early ties in early Greco-Roman culture. Clement of Alexandria even stated that sermons did little to change Christians. It was popularized by sophists who were expert debaters, and used emotional appeals, physical appearances to "sell" their arguments. Pastor led churches is another lengthy discussion completely.
7. The Benediction. (Ending prayer, blessing, or a song to end the service.): This came about in the 17th century that was introduced by Methodists. They are responsible for the "emotional decision based" conversion. (Pentecostals adopted this brand of worship.) The Frontier-Revivalists charged up the person's soul and tried to elicit an emotional response to "God's salvation plan." The "alter call," later, and pragmatism (Lorenzo Dow and Charles Finney.) Was introduced. D. L. Moody was also heavily influenced by this and the "end times" teachings of the Plymouth Brethren. He was the first to ask those who wanted to be saved to be lead up from their seats and be led into the "sinner's prayer" and also gave us the "gospel song."
Now, given the fact that when Christ came, the Jewish hierarchy was done away with and we were all made priests through his blood being shed; how can we say that the modern structure of worship in Christianity is what God had intended when it seems that we have strayed so far from the original practice?
How can we explain the fact that before Constantin there was no need for a church building for Christians to thrive, grow, and flourish in Christ and it be the only source of spiritual growth today?
All who are in Christ: Would the 1st century believers...
Posted : 4 Jan, 2012 01:51 PM
@ Elisha
I meant what I posted.
George needs to stop leading himself.
An unbeliever must seek the Lord while He may be found (Isa. 55:6). Each time a person feels convicted by the Holy Spirit but chooses to reject Him, his heart is hardened. Eventually, that person will become so calloused that it will become impossible to respond to that call.
All who are in Christ: Would the 1st century believers...
Posted : 4 Jan, 2012 09:05 PM
angel, well I wasnt sure what you meant about flesh, however being legalistic is always from the flesh, the worst kind of flesh, this is flesh trying to clean its self up with rules or some sort of formula then presenting itself to God , He jrejects that! God will do the saving and he will do the cleaning up, he wil wright his laws on your heart! Trying to obey his laws or figure out thw fiormula the first church used in a worship service or assembly so you can copy it is flesh flesh flesh!! JUST SAYING
All who are in Christ: Would the 1st century believers...
Posted : 4 Jan, 2012 10:14 PM
elishabroadway
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All who are in Christ: Would the 1st century believers...
Posted : 4 Jan, 2012 05:03 AM
no agapeton, of corse things are not the same as tey were in the first centurty. it would be obserd to say they were! we have no way of knowing exsactly howthey worshiped but I am sure they sang aongs and I am also ure that being concerned about keeping the traditions of the 1st century church would be legalistic! I dont see one reason why we shouldnt worship however we see fit (we being a unified body of believers) My church is an old wooden building with a tin roof and concrete floors it has grass growing p through the cracks I go and clean it every 2 weeks and pull the grass up and spary for ants, furthermore our service is not like you described we certainly dont have ushers handing out anything we sit down and first we sing then there are some that sing special songs maybe whoever wants to gets up it doesnt hjave to be planned then the preacher preaches then we have a prayers service wich may include an alter call ,also incluse having special prayer where we lay hands on someone and anoint them with oil , then wqe have a prayer list that we anoint and pray over for prayer requests, after all of that we then gice the offering its nothing like most churches thouigh we are free to speak out if we have a question or something to add !
ME: Actually Elisha, by reading of the epistles and Paul rebuking the churches WE CAN SEE HOW THEY WORSHIPED EXACTLY. TO say that it would be legalistic to go back to them is no only inaccurate but donw right forsaking the truth and simplicity of Scripture with a bold faced lie. See the current structure of the church now is more legalistic than anything and far less Scriptural that you can even imagine. Here I'll show you an example of How the gatherings were in Paul's day just by putting a few verses out and showing you something.
You describe how you sit and then you sing. Well let us talk about this planned singing a little bit. Listen to Paul's description of a New Testament church meeting: "EVERY ONE OF YOU hath a psalm" (1 Corinthians 14:26). "Speak to ONE ANOTHER with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" (Ephesians 5:19, NIV). Consider the words "every one of you." Song leaders, choirs, and worship teams make this impossible by limiting the headship of Christ-specifically His ministry of leading His brethren into singing praise songs to His Father. Do you realize that these people who are "appointed" to lead the gathering to sing is a throw back from the time of Constantine's day? During Constantine's reign, choirs were developed and trained to help celebrate the Eucharist. The practice was borrowed from Roman custom, which began its imperial ceremonies with processional music. Special schools were established, and choir singers were given the status of a second-string clergy. With the new addition of the choir in the Christian church, singing was no longer done by all of God's people. It was now done by clerical staff composed of trained singers. The clergy felt that if the singing of hymns was in their control, it would curb the spread of heresy. By AD 367, congregational singing was altogether banned. It was replaced by music from the trained choirs. Those choirs are today's worship leaders and bands today.
How do you expect The Spirit to work and inspire ANY OF US to want to spontaneously "sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God (Col.3:16)" with when it is planned by someone?
Now do you want to talk about the message? Where in Scripture does it show that only one person can deliver a massage? AND WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT ONLY A PASTOR CAN DO IT? Did it ever occur to you that the only verse in Scripture where "pastor' is used (Eph. 4:11) is NOT describing A LEADER IN A SPECIFIC GATHERING? The very idea of this "office" being elevated to a sole big mouth and transforming every attendant of the gathering into a silent passive ear has completely gone against every word in 1 Corinthians 12-14 where EVERYONE IN THE CHURCH MEETING HAS A RIGHT TO MINISTER to one another. It has made every seat warmer in the church forget that they ALL SHOULD BE "teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom (Col. 3:16)" in the church gatherings.
Now, do you want to hear about my church? My church is a building without walls. This building has many priests in it. The foundation within in is that of a rock. On that rock sits 12 pillars. On those pillars there are a lot of living stones one upon the other. There is no "stand alone" leader in that church but many congruent parts. The only pastor of that church is the Lord. Do you know it, sister?
