Author	Thread: For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell?
dljrn04 View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 3 Mar, 2012 05:09 AM God imposed his wrath due unto, and Christ underwent the pains of hell for, A. either all the sins of all men, B. or all the sins of some men, C. or some sins of all men. If C, some sins of all men, then have all men some sins to answer for, and so shall no man be saved; for if God entered into judgment with us, though it were with all mankind for one sin, no flesh should be justified in his sight: �If the LORD should mark iniquities, who should stand?� Ps. cxxx. 2. We might all go to cast all that we have �to the moles and to the bats, to go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty,� Isa. ii. 20, 21. If B, that is it which we affirm, that Christ in their stead and room Suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the world. If A, why then, are not all freed from the punishment of all their sins? You will say, �Because of their unbelief; they will not believe.� But this unbelief, is it a sin, or not? If not, why should they be punished for it? If it be, then Christ underwent the punishment due to it, or not. If so, then why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which he died from partaking of the fruit of his death? If he did not, then did he not die for all their sins. Let them choose which part they will." http://www.the-highway.com/Death_Owen.html Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 01:26 AM Hope No i would not agree that we interpret scripture no more that you want anyone telling you what you said. Yo would like to tell me that one scripture is wrong and your whole platform is wrong and void of all truth. You do not believe the word of God is true. Jn 3:16 is very clear and of course there is a whole bible full of truth that disagrees with your doctrine. Your problem start's with you and all who pick to follow error. You see you ignore faith, which is to say you deny the word of god and twist it to fit your doctrine. Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 04:36 AM "Hope No i would not agree that we interpret scripture no more that you want anyone telling you what you said." I don't know what this means. Anyway if you are saying you don't interpret scripture, I can see that you do not by your mishandling of scripture. That's not meant to be mean. It's an observation and it's meant to hopefully light a fire under you so that you see that words and context and intent in the text do matter. We cannot just make it say what we want it to say. "Yo would like to tell me that one scripture is wrong and your whole platform is wrong and void of all truth." If you haven't noticed the reason I am pointing out one scriputre for you it's because you continue to post only one scripture. So the fact that I only point out one scripture is irrelevant and if anything show more of the fact that you cannot defend your beliefs with scripture than it says anything about me. Ironically I have defended against other supposed "proof texts" in this very thread and others. You continue to say my platform is wrong but that's because it doesn't agree with who you've told yourself God has to be. However clearly you add to the scriptures to get them to mean what you say. "You do not believe the word of God is true." As evidenced by my continual use of scripture to support my case and your lack of usage of the scriptures, I would say that this claim is unfounded. "Jn 3:16 is very clear and of course there is a whole bible full of truth that disagrees with your doctrine." Yes it very clearly says He died for everyone believing. He died for those who would believe. Your interpretation and yes it's an interpretation even though you shy away from the word, is that John 3:16 somewhere says everyone has the ability to be saved and Jesus died to save all people everywhere. As I have shown now, multiple times, the verse does not say that. My points have gone WITHOUT refutation. If you do not think you interpret scripture than you may need a refresher on the meaning of interpretation. "Your problem start's with you and all who pick to follow error." I can defend my side with scripture. You have shown the inability to do that. In your heart, knowing this, I would hope it would challenge you to search out why this is so. You should question why you cannot answer these things from scripture and why I can. It should make you want to understand more. However you have shown nothing but adherence to tradition. Let a light bulb go off PJ. Truth is more important than tradition. The only good tradition is one grounded in truth. It should disturb you that you cannot defend your view as Paul said you should always be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within you. I pray that you will search these things out. I pray for you. It's is only through grace that we come to know these things. Get away from the human effort, I beg you. "You see you ignore faith, which is to say you deny the word of god and twist it to fit your doctrine." Faith come by the grace of God. By His grace I hope you will open your eyes. This is not about sticking to a doctrine. This is about the word of God. If the doctrines of grace were not grounded in the bible, I could not care less about them. I would trash them. I don't care about doctrine for doctrine's sake. I care about truth and desire to see God get all the glory due Him. I pray you will search these things too. Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 04:40 AM PJ, I love you brother... But until you start addressing my points and attempting to have a real discussion from the scriptures..I will not respond to your posts anymore. Some here truly desire truth and will be moved by what the scriptures teach on the issue. I am not posting to get people to change for changes sake. I'm posting these things because they are true. My hope is that some will see which belief system addresses the issue from scripture and which hides behind texts they don't fully understand which do not prove their side. Again, if you wish to have a "real" biblical discussion on these things, I'm all in. If not and you contine repeating the same warn out posts about how I'm wrong because you say I am, I will no longer respond to you. Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 05:50 AM The reason for re posting is you haven't got it, you think you can go around the word of God. Your statement you love me if you loved me you would accept the lord Jesus at his word The whole bible is built on what is said in jn. 3:16 Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 05:54 AM If this is your attempt to have a "real" biblical discussion, I'll bite until I see otherwise. Please break down John 3:16 for me. Show me at what point it says that "everyone has the ability to believe" and "Jesus died to save everyone". Please break down the verse and show that. If you refuse this simple thing then again I will go back to ignoring your posts. Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 09:50 AM You must have the word of god to reveal God. JN 3:14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 11:49 AM John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. 6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. 9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. 20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. 24 Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them." pj are you going to deny God's word through John also. Look specifically at verse 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. God only give eternal life to who pj? Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 02:41 PM It's not worth responding to at this point as I gave him a simple task and he still refuses to show how the verse means what he says it means. He denies scripture and this thread should only be used for those who want a serious discussion of the word. Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 03:00 PM Hope it is very simple: One believes Or They do not believe. Calvinism says they can not believe The answer is the fruit of their lips One believes!! One does Not believe!! No project's are necessary. Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 03:02 PM Again, when you want to have a biblical discussion I will talk. Post Reply

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