1 John 2:2, which states that "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
"Psalms 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. 10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart. This shows that predestination doctrine is not true. God is righteous and he judges even according to the intention of their heart. God saves the upright in heart. So, salvation is not by predestination.
"John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" God does not chose his children by predestination, instead people choose and receive God. God gives them power to become his children. Those who use his power to do the will of God are chosen as children to inherit the kingdom of God.
Calvinist usually use Eph 1:4,5&11 as the primary scripture to teach predestination doctrine. They chose selected phrases, rather than sentences, to prove their point. Let us study these three verses. "Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself,... 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"
(A) Verse 4:
"Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" According to them verse four is: "he hath chosen us before the foundation of the world", because they conveniently ignore few phrases from the verse which are not convenient for them to prove their point. They say that God has chosen a few people before the foundation of the world, which means that God has chosen them even before they were born. So, the work or the striving of the people to become holy and righteous, does not count for eternal life. They say that only the choosing of God does matter. If you are chosen by God, you got it made or if you are not chosen by God, you lost it. It appears to be that they give all the glory to God. But, in reality they join the devil to smear the integrity of the Lord as an righteous judge.
Somehow these theologians and their followers failed to see that God did not choose them. Chosen people were predestinated because of their obedience to the commandments of God and thus fulfilled the conditions required by God. God is Omniscient. He knows the future before it happens. He knows who will live a godly life. He chooses them and sets them apart for himself. They will live a godly life. Those who are not living a godly life are not chosen by God. "1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 2 Chr 16:9 ...the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Psalms 4:3 But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself:..." They are chosen neither because of their names or status, but only because that they will live a godly life. "Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"
Further the phrase was not just "he hath chosen us", but "He hath chosen us in him:" The choosing was in God himself, which means that they were abiding in God. That is, they were living in godliness of Jesus Christ, as he lived while he was a man. "Chosen us in him before the foundation of the world:" Since God chose them before the foundation of the world these theologians interpret it as predestination. But in reality it is the foreknowledge of God. "Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? ... 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even
so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." God knew that these people will not bow their knee to the idle. God foreknew this and reserved them for himself. God's foreknowledge is mentioned as election of grace in the New Testament. God of grace knows those people who will obey him and chose them for himself.
They conveniently ignore the following portion as if it is not there. "That we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" By his omniscient foreknowledge, God has chosen only those who will love God to the extend to present themselves holy and blameless before him. But they that advocate predestination reject such a life as a criterion for the adoption as children of God. God will never choose those, who take God for granted and consider the blood of Jesus Christ as free religious gift. His blood is free, but not cheap. God had to become a mere man and he had to humble himself to the humiliating death on the cross in order to provide the blood to sanctify his people. It will not to be applied to anybody who has no reverence to the righteousness, holiness and purity of God.
(B) Verse 5:
"Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself,." They say that God predestinate anybody, meaning any Shmo Joe to be adopted as his child. But, the Bible says that those who have received the spirit of adoption are lead of the Holy Spirit and they have mortified their sins, which are the deeds of their body. "Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." We will know the predestinated people by their holy life, a life that is free from sin.
"By Jesus Christ to himself:" They ignore this portion. But, this portion is very important. The true Christians are referred to as the body of Christ, the church of Christ, the bride of Christ, etc. Jesus Christ is the head and the true Christians are his body. God joins them unto himself. Before he joins them, he purifies them. "Eph 5:25 ...Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." If a person is not purified without spot or wrinkle to be holy, he/she is not predestinated to be joined to Jesus Christ.
Why Jesus should weep over Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing."
Ezekiel 18:23: "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"
The Church was "bought with his own blood" (Acts 20:28). That makes the atonement of Christ specific; it was for His Church.
But the atonement is universal in the sense that the Church's gates are wide open to "everyone who calls" (Rom. 10:13), to "him who is thirsty" (Rev. 21:6), to "all you who are weary and burdened" (Matt. 11:28). The invitation to believe, be baptized and enter the Church extends to "every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev. 5:9). In that sense, the atonement is universal and available to all.
5I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. John 15:5-6
19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20 let him know that [a]he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
John 10:15; just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
"1 John 2:2, which states that "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.""
There is a problem here. This verse teaches that He is the propitiation for their sins...Not that he is the possible propitiation. Well we know that people go to hell so clearly it cannot mean He is the propitiation for everyone everywhere. Now let's look at other verses that compare so that you can see what world mean. Surely you will admit that the word "world" in scripture doesn't always mean "every person, everywhere". In fact...John rarely uses it to mean that in his writings...
Revelation 5:9; 9And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take
the book and to break its seals; for You were slain,
and purchased for God with Your blood men FROM every tribe
and tongue and people and nation"....Here you can see what John means by world. Jesus purchased men out of every tribe, tongue, people, and nation. He didn't purchase every person. Salvation wasn't just made possible here...people were actually purchased.
If that's not enough for you...let's look at where John shows us again exactly what he means...
51Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being
high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going
to die for the nation,
52and not for the nation only, but in order that He might
also gather together into one the children of God who are
scattered abroad. John 11:51-52
Not only for the nation, but for others who are scattered abroad. In other words...He died for people out of every tribe, tongue, and nation. John 11:51-52 is a direct parallel to 1 John 2:2 and tells us exactly how we should interpret it. It refers to ethnicity. Jesus didn't just die for the Jews...but also the gentiles...Interpreting it to mean every person in the world would be to make it inconsistent with John 11:51-52 and Revelation 5:9
""Psalms 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. 10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart. This shows that predestination doctrine is not true. God is righteous and he judges even according to the intention of their heart. God saves the upright in heart. So, salvation is not by predestination."
So you believe in a works salvation? Trust me, if God judges according to our righteousness, we'd all go to hell....And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment Isaiah 64:6
"God does not chose his children by predestination"
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren Romans 8:29
"They chose selected phrases, rather than sentences, to prove their point."
First of all...not true. Second of all...it's silly to think a phrase cannot prove a point.
"According to them verse four is: "he hath chosen us before the foundation of the world", because they conveniently ignore few phrases from the verse which are not convenient for them to prove their point."
Would you kindly point out which phrases are ignored? Simply stating it does not make it so.
"Chosen people were predestinated because of their obedience to the commandments"
Talk about adding something that isn't there....sorry but works salvation isn't biblical.
"They conveniently ignore the following portion as if it is not there."That we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
Is this a joke? I'm not sure who you are quoting or parroting...but it shows zero understanding of our belief...as I told you in the other thread and the book thread.
""By Jesus Christ to himself:" They ignore this portion. But, this portion is very important. The true Christians are referred to as the body of Christ, the church of Christ, the bride of Christ, etc"
Seriously...where are you getting this stuff? It's not even on topic.
"Why Jesus should weep over Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing."
I have something real special for you to help you understand this verse...http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=4488.....and...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzzqHXgR75k...that is if you truly desire to learn.
"But the atonement is universal in the sense that the Church's gates are wide open to "everyone who calls" (Rom. 10:13), to "him who is thirsty" (Rev. 21:6), to "all you who are weary and burdened" (Matt. 11:28). The invitation to believe, be baptized and enter the Church extends to "every tribe and language and people and nation" (Rev. 5:9). In that sense, the atonement is universal and available to all."
I'll wait for you refutation of Limited atonement. These scriptures do not.
"5I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. John 15:5-6"
Where do you see that these people were ever believers? I'll just go ahead and show why they were not..."They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19
If these are the arguments from Olson's book then you have wasted your time reading it.
Funny, you copied and pasted from another person, but you will not listen to another person. Like I said...it's there if you desire to learn. BTW, God did say there will be teachers...
