Author	Thread: Question for the brethren:
Agapeton View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 27 Jul, 2012 04:50 PM I am having a discussion with a fellow brother in Christ who says that a pastor should get paid for the work he does. Problem is that he can't find a verse to show it, nor his pastoral role for that matter. Can anyone of you, if you would be so kind, to please list a pastor's job description and reason for pay from the Word please? Thanks for your comments in advance and may the Lord Jesus be constantly in your hearts as well as your words. Post Reply
Agapeton View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 30 Jul, 2012 07:37 PM PJ said: There is no evidence to those that reject the word of God. The word is the evidence. Calvin is not a source for bible discussion, nor is he a reputable individual to proclaim the truth. ME: I agree. So why do you agree with Calvin's summation of a pastoral role? It is his concoction and not once supported from Scripture. He was the one who came up with the concept you are defending EXACTLY the way he prescribed it. "The pastoral office is necessary to preserve the church on earth in a greater way than the sun, food,and drink are necessary to nourish and sustain the present life." Calvin Post Reply
View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 30 Jul, 2012 08:52 PM You do not believe that Agapeton. No I would not agree with his statement. It is not what people say it is what they do. Btw He rejected the anointing ALSO. NO HOLY GHOST, NO ANOINTING. Post Reply
Agapeton View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 30 Jul, 2012 09:22 PM �There is nothing more notable or glorious in the church than the ministry of the gospel, since it is the administration of the Spirit and of righteousness and of eternal life.� Calvin Institutes of Religion PJ, you are a Calvinist. You fully agree with Calvin's teachings whether you know it, or not. Post Reply
View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 30 Jul, 2012 09:24 PM I knew it... I knew it - P.J. is a Calvinist. :yay: Post Reply
Agapeton View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 30 Jul, 2012 09:33 PM :ROFL: Post Reply
View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 30 Jul, 2012 10:06 PM Hold the presses, We got a convert Post Reply
View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 30 Jul, 2012 10:17 PM I have my night's sleep, and ALL THIS HAPPENS?! Wow! Agapeton, I read exactly that article a few years ago, and started dealing with this question myself. Here are some of my thoughts... As for the word "poimenas" (translated in Ephesians 4:11 as "pastor") it doesn't mean "paid gospel worker." It's along the lines of "shepherd," which I (for one) associate with "elder." And I think you were on to something, HoldingOutHope, when you said "For many, being a pastor is a full time job." I've never known a church-going elder who was paid for that work. More so, I've come to hold that all Christians are full-time ministers; after all, Romans 12:1 says "Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God�s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God�this is your true and proper worship." Scripture is littered with the notion that our lives in Christ are our whole, and that our lives are entirely lives of service. Agapeton already mentioned that Paul gave himself as an example: a gospel worker, and a tentmaker who supported himself (Acts 18 & 20). I will not contest Jesus' gift of pastorhood to and for his church, as Eph. 4 says. But we do well to read Eph. 4:11...; "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers," ...along with 4:12-13: "to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." We are <i>all</i> to serve for Jesus. It's what we do, seeking to meet others' needs. I've come to think of the paid church worker (whether a pastor, minister, what have you) as a crutch for a church congregation. They are useful for times when a congregation isn't able to bear its own burden of...teaching, administration, whatever. Yet a congregation will never learn how to run again as a church body without handing the crutch away. Elders are great. Deacons/admin leaders are great. So is the paid church worker. But an indefinitely kept, paid, central CEO-type figure in a church sounds too much like Israel rejecting God as their King before they made the golden calf, and again before God gave them Saul. tl,dr: Jesus has made us into a royal priesthood. For his sake, let's learn how to be that, and keep it up. As always, I'm open to Biblical criticism. Post Reply
View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 30 Jul, 2012 10:40 PM Man, you guys can make me ramble! :S Post Reply
View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 31 Jul, 2012 09:12 AM I am having a discussion with a fellow brother in Christ who says that a pastor should get paid for the work he does. Problem is that he can't find a verse to show it, nor his pastoral role for that matter. Can anyone of you, if you would be so kind, to please list a pastor's job description and reason for pay from the Word please? Thanks for your comments in advance and may the Lord Jesus be constantly in your hearts as well as your words. If one goes back to the heart of the post and examines it and all that is said in light of you have to wander how anyone thinks they get light out of darkness. If you can not find a role for a pastor you are blinded by the enemy or your self deception and the same is true for financial gain. Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	Question for the brethren: Posted : 31 Jul, 2012 09:19 AM we get no light out of your darkness that's what we have been saying. Post Reply

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