Brothers and Sisters, I have been studying the Word of God for almost forty years. I was born and raised in an Arminian household. I believed the Arminian gospel. I imagined everybody does. When God converted me, I began to read the Holy Scriptures for myself, and the more I read, the more I saw, and see, the poor Arminian has no gospel � no good news at all. His gospel is a sham and a shame and leaves a poor sinner hopeless and helpless.
The Arminian says the eternal purpose of God is based upon man�s free will and choice. If one ask what�s wrong with such a gospel I answer it this way: it starts at the wrong place. The Scriptures began with God: �in the beginning God.� Before man had a being, there was the Eternal, Triune God.
The Arminian begins with man and his power and abilities to do something. Such a gospel deifies man and humanizes God. God becomes subject to man � man�s will and choice. It makes God a beggar, a bystander, as it were, pleading and hoping somebody will decide to accept Jesus into their hearts and lives. But God, in fear of violating their free will, can do nothing until man first acts. God�s whole purpose, according to them, is utterly dependent upon man�s unstable and changing will.
They tell us that Jesus Christ has done no more for those on their way to heaven, than for those who are now in hell. They tell us of a Savior who does not save, a redemption that does not redeem. They don�t tell us of an everlasting salvation that is in the Lord, but of a probation. Their gospel is nothing but a system of works, human merit, goodness and power.
Mr. Spurgeon said, �You can have such a gospel, you are welcome to it, and I hope you keep it to yourself.�
"The arguments that oppose these Reformed/Calvinist men here on the CDFF Biblical forum come from a group who between them do not have a single pastoral credential or earned degree in the study of theology. They have a demonstrated inability to comprehend what they have read. They often express themselves with fragmentary or incomplete sentences or unintelligible statements. In addition, their comments include many obvious spelling and grammar errors. Yet, they still believe they know better. It's interesting, isn't it? " IWA
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Pride in it's finest form...I know many theologians who have degrees and doctorates and yet are vile sinners. The label of a degree does not save and more than the label of a religion or belief system.
I would argue that the arguments that oppose the teachings of the 'reformed/Calvinist' men AND women here are as valid as the arguments against the 'reformed/calvinsts' labeling of all non-reformists.
I grew up in the same denomination as IWA...I could be bitter to the chains put on me to work to keep my salvation...but I choose to look at the fundamentals I learned over the years and can still reach back to the Bible lessons, studies, and Scripture memorized over the years to apply them in my 'liberated' belief in eternal salvation...that eternal means eternal. I don't make fun of my parents because they hold to their flawed beliefs, I believe they are saved, they are just not enjoying the liberty of their salvation (and I don't mean the ability to go out and sin for the sake of sin, I mean knowing they are in their way to heaven and not having to worry if they commit some sin that they will not make it into heaven).
The same Bible I studied as a child, verses memorized and examined, are part of Armenianism, Calvinism, Catholicism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventist, etc, etc. it's not the religious label, it's the Word of God that brings people to the understanding of their lost condition and the need for Christ's gift of salvation.
Martin Luther read the same Scriptures...that he learned through Catholicism and came to the realization that they had errors in their teaching and practices.
There's a reason Jesus instructed His disciples to go out and preach and teach...and the disciples weren't all theologians and scholars.
Teach said: "I grew up in the same denomination as IWA...I could be bitter to the chains put on me to work to keep my salvation...but I choose to look at the fundamentals I learned over the years and can still reach back to the Bible lessons, studies, and Scripture memorized over the years to apply them in my 'liberated' belief in eternal salvation."
The most glaring difference is that I was DRAWN out from the heresy.... "I came out from among them and am separate". I do not look to the "fundamentals" taught there because they were totally ERRANT. 180 degrees wrong - completely humanistic and totally God dishonoring. My mind has been and is being renewed by the Bible alone and the Spirit of God. For this reason, I totally reject the FALSE AND DEVIANT doctrinal distinctives of the "Free Will Baptists" and all who continue to boast in them and their PERVERSION.
This is an obvious mark of my Election. God does not leave his chosen BLINDED and feeling there way through DARKNESS. He brings them into the glorious light of His Truth. He promises that his ELECT will KNOW THE TRUTH. He does not abandon his children to the IDOLATRY of the wicked.
Teach said: "The same Bible I studied as a child, verses memorized and examined, are part of Armenianism, Calvinism, Catholicism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventist, etc, etc"
One should never equate the TRUTH with HERESY in the same sentence. Let me restate this sentence for you in proper terms. The same Bible I studied as a child, verses memorized and examined, are part of Arminianism, FREE WILL BAPTIST, Catholicism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventist, etc, etc" ... And they all share a common PERVERSION AND DEVIANCY from the pure TRUTH of the Word.
Calvinism has nothing to do with those camps but rather rejects them all and the common errors that they share.
... And Teach, at least your parents are logically consistent in their faith. They are consistent Arminians and comprehend the logical implications of the first four points of their theological construct. You on the other hand are an inconsistent Arminian. That is, you do not even fully comprehend the logical implications of the NON-Biblical ideas that you advance and promote. You mistakenly believe that the 5th point of Arminianism is wrong yet the other 4 points are right. This is a problem in your reasoning. Nothing more.
You would like to hold on to HUMANISM on 4 points and then STEAL the security from the 5th point of Calvinism. It does NOT work that way. Sooner or later, God willing, you may figure this out.
Why is it when some folks don't agree with something some other folk says that it always comes
down to and ia turn about to the
freewill ???...is it because some folks here believe they have no freewill and are envious that others believe they do have it ??...I mean...really...why is it always about the chains of the will ???...I'd really like to know this...thanxs in advance... X <>< O
So, IWA, you are saying you do not use the Bible that was the foundation of all the denominations I listed? Up until a 100 years or so ago, all the denominations listed used the same Bible (some more recent than 100 years).
I don't stop to 'count' the points I agree or disagree on. I know the fundamentals of Christianity as presented by God throughout His Word. I rely on His promises, all of them.
By your own admission, you study more than just the Bible. You have listed many of the men and works you also study. Yes, I believe you were drawn out of the free will baptist denomination...but not so certain by whom you were drawn based on the fruits you display. It is not my place to determine if you are or are not saved.
I look back to Mccubed's posting of Martin Luther's points...and the very first one is based on repentance...now that is Biblical...repent, repent, repent. How many times did Jesus Himself state that?
The calvinistic presentation of election you promote reminds me of the kid's game duck, duck, goose. Basically God saying, not chosen, not chosen, not chosen, chosen, not chosen, not chosen, chosen.
The God of the Bible I study has more than enough grace for everyone...just not everyone wants His grace...but in the end, they will...and it will be too late, but they will give God the honor and respect due Him.
"The calvinistic presentation of election you promote reminds me of the kid's game duck, duck, goose. Basically God saying, not chosen, not chosen, not chosen, chosen, not chosen, not chosen, chosen."
One has to wonder if this woman has ever actually read her Bible at all.
Adam - chosen
Cain - not chosen
Abel - chosen
Seth- chosen
Abraham - chosen
Ishmael - not chosen
Isaac - chosen
Esau - not chosen
Jacob - chosen
... and so on.
Starts in the beginning of the book, same story is told all the way through the book, and it's repeated in clear terms at the end of the book.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Before the foundation of the world, the names were written.
Now, Teach and her "Free Will Baptist" counterparts don't like that very much. Let's see what God has to say about Teach's opinion.
20 Nay but, O man (Teach_ib) , who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Romans 9
Lord have Mercy...Freewill Baptists :laugh:..thats a Hoot...Hey...John the Baptist is a Baptist...:excited:...He fulfilled prophecy and prepared the way of the LORD...He baptized those that heard the one ( John the Baptist ) crying the wilderness "Repent"...He did the Fathers WILL and not His own...GOD Bless him ForEvermore... X <>< O
